Six-year-old schoolboy suspended for having Mini Cheddars in his lunchbox...

[Freefaller]

There must be more to this story than meets the eye.

If the child has been expelled for having Mini-Cheddars in his lunch box and that's it then that's just ridiculous. The school is there to teach students subjects, not dictate to them what they can and cannot eat.

That's my feeling too.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I have read a few times lately that they now think artificial sweeteners make you crave sugar more because your body thinks you are about to get the hit but it doesn't come.
Of course I don't know anything of the science behind that only that I have read it a few times lately

I heard this too, so I looked at the scientific evidence and it's inadequate to make those sorts of conclusions.

 

[Akagi]

Indeed, by avoiding poor nutritional foods - which is what I said, so in fact you've agreed with me

Depends how you look at it.

You could still eat poor nutritional foods and give your body what it needs.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

lol, loving the typical 'daily fail' PC gone mad / nanny state end of the world hysteria

Some of the mind-sets of the people here are no doubt very similar to why the child ultimately had to be expelled, i.e 'how dare you dictate to me and imply I am feeding my child rubbish / I'm a poor parent, little johnny is my property I'll do as I see fit''

At the end of the day after America the diet and health of British school children is amongst the worst in the world, if enforcing a strict healthy diet during school time can help improve this then surely this is a good thing. The fact it's also annoying possesive, interferring bad parents is just an added bonus

 

[Burnsy2023]

Indeed, by avoiding poor nutritional foods - which is what I said, so in fact you've agreed with me

Not quite. What your suggesting is one approach but by no means the only one.

Processed foods often have excesses of fats sugars and salt, but if you tailored your deit around this to compensate it still wouldn't necessarily be unhealthy.

 

[Freefaller]

Quite high in fat and carbs however. Chocolate is not bad for your kids..as long as it is on moderation.

Fats aren't the evil people think - fats from nuts and oily fish, avocados for example and medium chain triglycerides are vital to good health. Carbs from fruit and veg are easily metabolised by your body - furthermore, psychologically, if you feel you're eating something sweet it'll probably cheer you up and let you feel less resentful to eating "boring" food (which isn't really boring IMO).

 

[anything I don't mind]

Based on what?

There is many studies and a fair amount of people saying that the synthesised sweeteners are worse than sugar or at least the same and lead to diabetes just the same. If you think about its an engineered sugar, from the compound level. They actually take 3 poisonous chemical compounds to create aspartame. There was an incident in australia where a girl got addicted to chewing gum and the aspartame made her sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ3pwSSg1jg
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/artificial-sweeteners-could-lead-to-obesity-diabetes/

I prefer to eat natural food as possible, anything that has been processed too much or synthesised i try to avoid in general.

 

[Freefaller]

Not quite. What your suggesting is one approach but by no means the only one.

Processed foods often have excesses of fats sugars and salt, but if you tailored your deit around this to compensate it still wouldn't necessarily be unhealthy.

I never said it was the only one, I was just making a statement that if you really want to help yourself being healthy you'd avoid all that poor quality food to which you refer. It's better to add things into your diet, than have to take things out owing to poor nutritional choices. It's like leaving a blemish on a car and polishing around it - you might as well take the blemish out if you're going to go to the effort of polishing the car.

Unfortunately, it's so cheap to by all these refined/processed goods, and fresh food is become a premium. I don't blame or chastise people who have no choice but to buy cheaper forms of food - it should be the otherway round. However, commercially it's so cheap to manufacture crap foods, and the profits are easy, that no one wants to reverse that oil tanker. It would take so much effort and people are so set in their ways.
It's a shame but that's just the way it is.

 

[Haggisman]

find the one silly part of the big picture, make it the headline.

You mean like the school did with the child's diet?

Granted, none of us know the full back story behind this and the eventual expulsion, but it sounds like it was poorly handled by both parties.

If the school were that concerned about it, they should have arranged a meeting with the parents and discussed the reasoning behind their "healthy" eating policy (you know, educating, like they are paid to do) rather than simply saying "don't do it".

The majority of the time, if you sit someone down and get them to understand why certain rules are in place, then you'll find people are actually quite receptive.

Some of the mind-sets of the people here are no doubt very similar to why the child ultimately had to be expelled, i.e 'how dare you dictate to me and imply I am feeding my child rubbish / I'm a poor parent, little johnny is my property I'll do as I see fit''

However, what we (and the school) don't know is that maybe little johnny does have a very healthy and balanced diet at home, and those mini cheddars are his one daily treat?

It appears the school have looked at this one food item in isolation and made a judgement based on a severe lack of information, whereas the parents have a wider picture of the whole diet.

Of course the parents may just be feeding him crap, but we don't know, and more importantly, neither do the school.

 

[Castiel]

Fats aren't the evil people think - fats from nuts and oily fish, avocados for example and medium chain triglycerides are vital to good health. Carbs from fruit and veg are easily metabolised by your body - furthermore, psychologically, if you feel you're eating something sweet it'll probably cheer you up and let you feel less resentful to eating "boring" food (which isn't really boring IMO).

I quite agree, I was pointing out the correlation between those cereal bars and a plain chocolate bar...each has a place in a balanced diet, particularly if you have an active high calorie burning one.

An example to consider also is low fat margarine spreads v butter...which is actually better for you?

I never eat margarine, I use butter (again in moderation). Margarine has no nutritional value whatsoever, this is not true of butter..or indeed chocolate.

 

[cheesyboy]

You mean like the school did with the child's diet?

Granted, none of us know the full back story behind this and the eventual expulsion, but it sounds like it was poorly handled by both parties.

If the school were that concerned about it, they should have arranged a meeting with the parents and discussed the reasoning behind their "healthy" eating policy (you know, educating, like they are paid to do) rather than simply saying "don't do it".

The majority of the time, if you sit someone down and get them to understand why certain rules are in place, then you'll find people are actually quite receptive.

They did exactly that - the parents took it as an affront and refused to budge. The school persisted with trying to educate and discuss, but the parents charged of on a media campaign whilst stuffing junk food in the kid's lunchbox.

 

[Freefaller]

I quite agree, I was pointing out the correlation between those cereal bars and a plain chocolate bar...each has a place in a balanced diet, particularly if you have an active high calorie burning one.

Of course. We all like our treats from time to time I love chocolate, but again I prefer dark chocolate without soya lecthin - to me that's a treat, and since it's natural and actually good for you in small quantities I don't feel too guilty eating it.

 

[FeFiDoh]

Ahhh, pizza + chips + coke was my average school dinner back in 1990, came to around 94p at the till. As long as my parents gave me something healthy in the evening with fruit and veg, I don't see the issue. Interfering gov't is interfering, stuck their oar in as always.

This, well minus the coke never really drank fizzy drinks.

I would end up with chips and a burger/slice of pizza at lunch and would eat an okay meal in the evening. But them I also played football for the other 50 minutes of my lunch and attended PE then as soon as I got in from school was out either rollerblades, bmx or playing more football.

 

[Haggisman]

They did exactly that - the parents took it as an affront and refused to budge. The school persisted with trying to educate and discuss, but the parents charged of on a media campaign whilst stuffing junk food in the kid's lunchbox.

I must have missed that part?

The only "meeting" mentioned in the article, is the one where they were told "that the meeting cannot take place", which was arranged after he was suspended

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Indeed. There really is no need to avoid additives such as MSG unless you have a proven sensitivity or intolerance.

Too much sodium is unhealthy. People maight be watching their salt intake but ignoring MSG. They both contain sodium.

edit: rogue quote bracket removed

 

[Burnsy2023]

There is many studies and a fair amount of people saying that the synthesised sweeteners are worse than sugar or at least the same and lead to diabetes just the same.

Well, lets look at a systematic review of the evidence:

Epidemiologic studies of artificial sweetener use in children have generally shown a positive association between artificial sweetener intake (most commonly as diet soda) and weight gain. In interpreting such studies, it is critical to consider the conditions required to support causality in such studies, including the strength of the association, consistency in findings, temporality, biological gradient, plausibility, coherence between epidemiological and laboratory findings, and strength of the dose-response relationship (58). Based on these criteria, causality is far from established with regard to artificial sweetener use and weight gain in children. It is particularly difficult to establish causality between artificial sweetener consumption, weight gain, and metabolic abnormalities, as artificial sweetener intake is likely to be an indicator for other variables. For example, the decision to consume artificial sweeteners is often made by individuals who are concerned about their weight in an effort to reduce their caloric intake. In the case of children, this decision is frequently made by parents who are concerned about their own weight and consequently the weight of their offspring, thus further confounding the choice to use artificial sweeteners with genetic and behavioral variables.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951976/

Lets look at the key conclusion here: "Based on these criteria, causality is far from established with regard to artificial sweetener use and weight gain in children."

So lets look at your next statement:

If you think about its an engineered sugar, from the compound level.

And? Just because it's chemically similar to sugar doesn't mean it has even widly similar effects.

They actually take 3 poisonous chemical compounds to create aspartame.

Again, and? Table salt is made from Sodium and Chlorine both nasty elements in their own right but it's crucial to the body as an electrolyte. There is simply no relevance whatsoever.

There was an incident in australia where a girl got addicted to chewing gum and the aspartame made her sick.

Source? Is it a causal relationship or just soemthing that roughly happened in the same timeframe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ3pwSSg1jg
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/artificial-sweeteners-could-lead-to-obesity-diabetes/

I'm not even going to look at those links. Give me proper science and I'll evalutate it on it's merits. Youtube vids and press articles are nowhere near good enough.

I prefer to eat natural food as possible, anything that has been processed too much or synthesised i try to avoid in general.

And that's completely your choice, but I like to make choices based on reliable evidence rather than pure specualtion.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

However, what we (and the school) don't know is that maybe little johnny does have a very healthy and balanced diet at home, and those mini cheddars are his one daily treat?

Then a reasonable civilized parent would simply tell little johnny he can have the treat when he gets home (after his homework is done for bonus points)!
What they wouldn't/shouldn't do is kick up a massive fuss and annoy the people who care for and educate their dear little johnny!!!

It appears the school have looked at this one food item in isolation and made a judgement based on a severe lack of information,

Irony

 

[Haggisman]

Then a reasonable civilized parent would simply tell little johnny he can have the treat when he gets home (after his homework is done for bonus points)!:

I agree completely, and perhaps if it had been approached differently by both parties then this would have been the outcome.

Unfortunately both the school and the parents appear to have dug their heels in and decided "I'm right, don't care what you say"

Irony

Nope, just selective quoting on your behalf

 

[Hotwired]

My son likes a ham sandwich and non processed ham from a supermarket like tesco is becoming harder to find. They have one non processed/reclaimed ham on their deli counter.

While I've never been to your Tescos, I'm aware of a lot of misunderstanding about processed hams.

There's basically three kinds of ham:

1) A large single chunk of meat up to basically a leg with or without the bone still in, brined, flavoured if required, cooked

2) Several large pieces of meat (typically 2-3) which get tumbled in a large drum to make the outside sticky then get pressed together to form a ham about the size of a turkey otherwise same as above.

3) Increasingly small meat pieces, often recovered in various ways down to a slurry which is moulded and set into various shapes e.g. "billy bear" ham or "spam".

That's also in typical order of decreasing cost.

Accordingly #1 is least messed about with as it's a premium product, #2 is average ham and what pretty much everyone buys, cheapest ones may have water added, #3 couldn't be messed with much more.

#1 may or may not be formed in some way into a particular shape more likely if the bone is removed since that leaves a void.

#2 is always formed into a short fat rounded lump because it's not one piece of meat

#3 has to be formed because it has no shape of its own.

In terms of cost #1 can be around £20/kg #2 around £10-15/kg and #3 about £5/kg.

They are all processed, the level of processing varies greatly and you pay for what you don't want done to your ham.

Back to the top again, I'm certain most of what Tesco has on its deli is #2 with a couple of #3 for cheaper options, wasn't aware of it selling #1 but I found some.

Examples:

#1: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=258954564

#2: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=280375945
#2 cheaper end with water added: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=256858186

#3: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=252153398

 

[Rroff]

Why? The evidence that these are safe is overwhelming.

A bit aside from the safety aspect but I find artificial sweetners tend to give me headaches and while its more a problem with artificial colorings some flavorings also used to (as a child) make me hyper-active and temporarily completely change my disposition.

As to the subject in general I think the whole thing is ******** I'm all for having some kind of advisory body or something a school can refer individual cases to* and/or guidelines but stipulating exactly what a child can and can't have is stupid especially if its left to the whims of individual governing bodies or headteachers.


*There may be some cases where poverty or poor education is dictating circumstances where it needs more than just the school laying down rigid rules to deal with it.