Smart meter farce

I have to say that having our energy monitor has saved me quite a bit of cash as i didn't realise how much draw some devices had, i've got our house resting electricity rate down from about 350w to 150w and added up over time that's a substantial saving and well worth an hour or so wandering around the house with the display. I'm fairly techy and have a good understanding of power draw and even i was surprised, you never stop learning.

And joe public will genuinely have no idea what a KWH is or even the concept of wattage/power so having a nice colour coded visual display to show them their electric fire is actually really expensive should help. so on the whole i think smart meters + energy displays are a good thing BUT it is a shambles how it's all been implemented :(
 
Shoza said:
Exactly - I use as much energy as I need to to feel comfortable / enjoy my spare time. Government should focus on decarbonisation of our energy sector + cheaper bills. Spot pricing using smart meters does not achieve that.
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I know it must be nice to not worry about your usage but that really isn't the reality for a huge number of people, having a display to tell them that they can or cannot afford cook dinner is probably useful for them.
 
Yaayuh! said:
I'm not vehemently against smart meters, but smart meters won't save you money, unless you're ignorant of energy usage. You've got to be a bit of a simpleton to not know general energy usage of appliances etc. There's usually nothing you can do about it any way. What are you going to do? Not wash your clothes? Not have toast any more? etc Stop cooking?
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Many people have no idea. There's been plenty of threads on here in the past with people wondering if leaving their PC monitor on all day is the cause of their high bills, not realising it's actually the 20 halogen GU10 bulbs they leave or the hot water immersion heater.
 
sovietspybob said:
I know it must be nice to not worry about your usage but that really isn't the reality for a huge number of people, having a display to tell them that they can or cannot afford cook dinner is probably useful for them.
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I care about the cost of my energy usage. I don’t care about how much energy I use.

Government should focus on the first point spending some of that smart meter money and HS2 money on new nuclear and tidal/wind power so we have inexpensive energy security within our country.

For example I read that the cost of HS2 would fund 8 nuclear power stations + FTTP to every home in the UK. I’d much prefer that than 10 mins quicker to Birmingham…
 
pastymuncher said:
It's not so much not caring about how much energy we use as we only use what we need to use. It's is not possible to reduce energy usage any further than we already have. Every light has been converted to LED. Nothing is left on standby, if it's not being used it's off at the wall. Heating is set to the bare minimum when on, just enough to be comfortable. I had a British Gas energy monitor 10+ years ago so I know exactly how much energy we use per day plus I bought a plug in energy monitor over 15 years ago and know exactly which things use the most energy. Submitting a meter reading takes just a couple of minutes a month so not a problem. A so called "smart" meter gives me zero benefit.
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Can't argue with that. But I'd bet 95% of the population are not as on top of things as you are.
 
throwaway4372 said:
Yeah smart meters are a meme, but it's funny you post about this now because I heard an advert for a solution to this problem the other day which uses a phone app instead, see if this works for you: https://hugoenergyapp.co.uk/meet-hugo/

Edit: prolly worth telling your MP about this too, obvs not an acceptable situation, clearly the problem affects enough people for it to be worth running ads for an app to work around it.
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Thanks for the link, downloaded last night and seems to work well :)
 
Shoza said:
I care about the cost of my energy usage. I don’t care about how much energy I use.

Government should focus on the first point spending some of that smart meter money and HS2 money on new nuclear and tidal/wind power so we have inexpensive energy security within our country.

For example I read that the cost of HS2 would fund 8 nuclear power stations + FTTP to every home in the UK. I’d much prefer that than 10 mins quicker to Birmingham…
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While i totally agree that we need more new build nuclear (I'm sat in an office looking at a recently decommissioned one) we still need projects such as HS2 if we're going to decarbonise a lot of other transport, i don't quite know how HS2 is so terrible about selling all the benefits of itself. It's not just a bit quicker between cities it frees up huge capacity on the legacy network to enable more frequent regional services and a big shift of freight to rail rather than road but that never seems to be highlighted anywhere :(

It's just unfortunate that we've had just so long of governments sitting on their hands not committing to anything that it's really starting to bite us on lots of fronts at once.
 
pastymuncher said:
It's not so much not caring about how much energy we use as we only use what we need to use. It's is not possible to reduce energy usage any further than we already have. Every light has been converted to LED. Nothing is left on standby, if it's not being used it's off at the wall. Heating is set to the bare minimum when on, just enough to be comfortable. I had a British Gas energy monitor 10+ years ago so I know exactly how much energy we use per day plus I bought a plug in energy monitor over 15 years ago and know exactly which things use the most energy. Submitting a meter reading takes just a couple of minutes a month so not a problem. A so called "smart" meter gives me zero benefit.
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This, I know how much electricity my devices use and turn them off as necessary. Plus energy monitors have been around for ages, you don't need a smart meter to get that information.

I know all homes will have one eventually as meters get replaced with age but I just think its disingenuous for the message to consumers to be it will save them money when the real drive for installing them is to switch to a peak pricing model instead of flat daytime tariffs. But there are peaks for a reason, its when people need to use appliances (morning shower, cooking dinner, limited hours outside of work for chores etc)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/09/energy-surge-pricing-offered-millions-households/
https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/s...ow-work-new-ofgem-powers-energy-bills-1453885
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ctricity-bills-energy-rationing-b2012959.html
https://inews.co.uk/news/smart-mete...vernight-confusion-conflicting-advice-1456601

Plus the rollout has been pretty bad with early meters becoming dumb when switching suppliers, all that cost is added to our bills. Investment should have been in nuclear to act as a consistent background supply to supplement variable renewable energy sources.
 
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jpaul said:
... so, you both know, if electric, oven at 180C for 90mins, hob rings 30mins(rice/spuds) - so potential benefit of steaming things together;
real consumption of fridge/freezer. ....
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If you want to save money then switching the oven for a slow cooker would have been a better example.

And what am I supposed to do about the fridge / freezer, its set to the recommend temperatures. I can hardly turn it off.

I know what the heavy hitting devices in the house are and limit their use but monitoring energy use to the extent of deciding about using the hob or the oven is just ridiculous.
 
jpaul said:
... so, you both know, if electric, oven at 180C for 90mins, hob rings 30mins(rice/spuds) - so potential benefit of steaming things together;
real consumption of fridge/freezer. ....
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I was about to say life is too short but then realized I spent a good hour or two trying cable/charger combos yesterday :o
 
Puzzled said:
And what am I supposed to do about the fridge / freezer, its set to the recommend temperatures. I can hardly turn it off.

I know what the heavy hitting devices in the house are and limit their use but monitoring energy use to the extent of deciding about using the hob or the oven is just ridiculous.
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course not -

if you have an older fridge, or it needs defrosting(lol the frostless freezer), consumption maybe unexpected (what it says on the label is not necessarily the truth)

Equally for using oven say you discover, its typically four units say and you have it on every night, maybe you'd decide to batch cook stuff more.

anyway you demonstrated my earlier point that getting your hands on that data is difficult smart or not.
 
Jesus, get off your donkies and start walking will you!

Smart metering was introduced as a way to determine the carbon footprint of the nation and ideally help people (see uneducated masses) understand the quantity of fuel they waste at a level they will understand. It part of the carbon pledge that the G20 Summit introduced back in 2006 (I think, it was a long time ago).

Initially the government said to suppliers this is what we want, show us how its done, this started the SMETS1 supplier owned and operated fiasco up until 2018 when SMETS2 was given full launch (targeted launch started in 2016).

The data coming back from SMETS2 installations has provided a vast amount of usage statistics (optional reporting times back to the government of every 30min, Hour, Day, Week or Month, Month being the default unless you the customer specify otherwise, although most suppliers suggest 30min reading as the most common). The stats show nothing other than time of day and usage, no location data no customer info just readings and time. Due to the way the network is designed the meter when reporting back sends and identifier (called a Premise ID) and the meter readings. The premise ID carries no location data the DCC (data handling part of the network) does not know where that property is, just that it is reporting readings, your supplier then says to the DCC this Premise ID is our customer can we have the readings please, Premise ID is then used to link your account to the data. The DCC can generate statistics from the usage graphs per Premise ID. What they cannot do it pinpoint a property in a particular street and say "ooh that house is using far too much...." and so on and the have no idea where that property is!


Smart metering is nothing more than natural progression of an ever growing demand network, Smart system have been in use for manufacturing (thing pressure regulation, flow and demand monitoring of liquids and so on) for nearly 30 years. Heck Smart meters have existed since the mid 80s within big business, they are far from a new thing, have a search for AMR meters they have been around since the late 60's.
 
yes the donky was for Mary , like the principal beneficiary of the smart meter is the supplier.

how has the data actually enabled them to optimise the generation, or supply networks - they must have already know the conoslidated demands at a neighborhood(sub-station?) level.
 
jpaul said:
yes the donky was for Mary , like the principal beneficiary of the smart meter is the supplier.

how has the data actually enabled them to optimise the generation, or supply networks - they must have already know the conoslidated demands at a neighborhood(sub-station?) level.
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Nope, no supplier has access to that data only the transporter (DNO = Distribution Network Operator) that if the sites have data collections, Sub stations are only to convert DC to AC current (as DC current travels better than AC does) and to provide network stabilisation using super capacitors.

On a whole data collection is a fairly new thing for the consumer market, meter level awareness has never been needed before now, previously demand would produce a dip in current available so production would be ramped up before super capacitors were drained.
 
Puzzled said:
If you want to save money then switching the oven for a slow cooker would have been a better example.
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I was trying to work that out myself last week, our slow cooker uses 180w and our oven about 2100w so if the slow cooker is on for 10 hours (putting it on at 7am before leaving the house and eating at 5pm when we get home ) that'd be 1800 watt hours. But if we were to cook with the oven we may only need the oven on for 45 mins, and the element won't be on the entire time so i might use say 1200watt hours?

That's the thing with consumption, it's hard enough to know what devices use and then a whole other ball game to work out prolonged consumption and juggle what's actually cheaper.
 
BigBoy said:
Nope, no supplier has access to that data only the transporter (DNO = Distribution Network Operator) that if the sites have data collections, Sub stations are only to convert DC to AC current (as DC current travels better than AC does) and to provide network stabilisation using super capacitors.

On a whole data collection is a fairly new thing for the consumer market, meter level awareness has never been needed before now, previously demand would produce a dip in current available so production would be ramped up before super capacitors were drained.
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I didn't think we used hardly any DC for transmission in the UK? Its was all 440kv for the big stuff and 132kv AC.

I think the interconnects to other counties are HVDC though due it actually being worth it but in our country i didn't think the extra cost was worth it as we just don't deal with distances big enough to ever bother going DC? in fact i think we have 5 current HVDC interconnects and maybe 2 operational domestic ones, one in Scotland and the other in the Wirral unless you know otherwise?
 
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BigBoy said:
Nope, no supplier has access to that data only the transporter (DNO = Distribution Network Operator) that if the sites have data collections,
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OK thanks


for a slow cooker - a plugin energy monitor should nail consumption , for the oven/hob consumption, that's tougher ...
unless you have a loop monitor on the hob/oven circuit, I think you need to compare the consumption between the hours in which you cook, between those days which you heavily use the oven versus those you don't
roll on ovens that will tell you themselves


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DCC smart data use aspirations
https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-eve...-smart-meter-system-will-help-reach-net-zero/
https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/1254/21037-dcc-data-for-good-paper_v8-final.pdf

In its discussion paper, Data for Good, the DCC proposes that organisations work together to create ‘free-to-access’ data exchanges to maximise the use of analytics to solve some of the nation’s big challenges, such as reaching Net-Zero and ending fuel poverty.
The proposed first DCC exchange would give secure, free access (or at cost) to system data from its nationwide, secure smart meter platform. The ability to analyse and use granular detail about the smart meter system, as well as by combining it with data from other organisations, could be a game-changer for the country’s Net-Zero ambitions.
Helping households in fuel poverty – 47% do not currently receive benefits, and energy suppliers invest an estimated £100m of ‘search costs’ trying to ensure interventions go to those that most need it. Sensitive and appropriate use of pre-payment meter system data can help put this right.
Supporting better visibility of the energy system – the Energy System Catapult estimates that the unique insights and cross-network learning that could be derived from DCC data could help realise savings of up to £2.4bn.
 
alec said:
these are peak figures. Once it is up to temperature, power consumption is much lower over long period
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My understanding of the slow cooker is that it's not thermostatically controlled, it just keeps heating at a prolonged low temperature? And as i said an oven will cycle its heating element meaning it uses less than the peak value over a cooking period hence the oven probably being more efficient to cook a meal?
 
sovietspybob said:
My understanding of the slow cooker is that it's not thermostatically controlled, it just keeps heating at a prolonged low temperature? And as i said an oven will cycle its heating element meaning it uses less than the peak value over a cooking period hence the oven probably being more efficient to cook a meal?
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all heat elements for cooking use thermal transfer so don't need to be running full blast to keep a pot hot, the element will click in and out to heat the pot to the required temp.
 
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