Smart meter rollout

[Mynight]

Has anyone given any thought to these yet?

Appears the EU have made targets for 80% of the UK to have smart meters installed in a bid to cut energy wastage/usage.

I was also considering the security risks apparently they're all linked via wifi sending the usage data back to the various companies involved. We all know how insecure wifi is given enough time, in theory if you're charged on the data sent back then a nefarious neighbour could increase your bills, work out when you're not home and rob you. Obviously these are extreme scenarios but its a point I have considered.

I know I'm going to hold out on getting one fitted but I am getting ahold of one to have a play with test my security theory


Would you have one installed?

(Poll? Yay/nay?)

 

[Mynight]

It's a large initial outlay with a payback targeted at 8~ years I believe but if it helps bolster European energy security then I'm all for it

Just out of interest but how can it pay back? Wouldn't the payback be based on people realising how much energy they're using and cutting down? If so then I can see an awful lot of people not caring as either they already save as much as they can or they just don't care as long as it stays the same price. Unless my family are weird we don't leave anything on were not using so couldn't save anymore.

I'm not trying to be difficult but I can't see how it's going to save us any money when were going to foot the bill in the first place.

 

[Mynight]

I think a technological addition giving people a granular breakdown will help educate on usage more than the current system of alphabet stickers and a bill. It's not too dissimilar as auto enrolment for Pensions or dieting advice, you can lead them to water but if they refuse then it will just cost them more in the long run but you can't say they weren't advised in a practical way.

Good reply. Thank you. I can see what you're saying now. It does make me a bit sad though that it has to come to this.

...

To be fair, the property we are currently in has the old style meter and its garbage. I would much rather have a modern one with automatic monitoring and meter reading, but neither I nor anybody else can be bothered to pay for it. Its a good thing.

What's garbage about it? It spins and you read it or am I missing something? Just wondering as I've got the old 50s meter and I have no issues with it wondering if I've got a surprise in store.

 

[Mynight]

I had both my gas and electricity meters changed to smart meters by British Gas about a year ago and didn't have to pay a penny.

Yeah I'm sure you did most likely included in your bills. Nothing is free.

 

[Mynight]

the £200 cost will be passed onto "us" the end user even tho we are forced to have it - the energy companies have openly admitted so..

You can decline having one. They can't force you by any means. However I imagine we will all be paying regardless if we have one or not.

 

[Mynight]

If you refuse to allow the gas or electric board access to your house to replace or check on a meter you can fully expect one result.
I hope you have a generator handy, as they will cut your supply off if you refuse to allow them to maintain their equipment to the currently required standard (or even just inspect it).

Quite right but you can still refuse to have it replaced by a smart meter. I believe you're still allowed to request a "dumb meter". You just can't refuse them access to the meters. (I thought they were all on the outside anyway ).

 

[Mynight]

I wonder if the PAYG meters will come with contactless card readers that would be kind of cool.

 

[Mynight]

You know as paranoid as the mandated eu power usage sounds it is all to plausible

 

[Mynight]

Even using phone network it can be captured/hacked stingrays can be built for cheap.

What is this central database used for then? Would it be sold for advertisers? "We see you love your tea would you like a more power efficient kettle?" (Clearly I am not an advertiser

 

[Mynight]

Currently all electric and gas is bought 12-14months in advance and is based on the estimated annual consumption for your property based on your readings (it adjusts with each reading received) so the energy company is having to forcast over a year ahead for prices.

If the energy company knows what all of its customers are using at any one time it can forecast down to weeks or even days so they can they buy the electric and gas on spot prices and react better to fluctuations in the market which takes the guessing game away from it.

Surely they know what the total usage from the network is? Even if its not down to house level. So they should have enough data to forecast.

Not disagreeing just querying

 

[Mynight]

Welcome to the world of the BSCP504 my friend lol This will Burn the back of your eyes out

In short an energy supplier buys say 1,000,000 KWH of energy at a set price based on what its forcasted (based on the estimated annual consumption figures) to sell to its customers.

If it sells 900,000 for that period it then has to sell the over procured Kwh back to the grid for a reduced rate which loses money

if it sells 1,100,000 Kwh it will have to buy more to cover but at a different and often more expensive price.

By allowing more accurate buying the theory is the cost is lower so the price to the consumer should be lower. (I know what your thinking... more profit....)

On the flip side as well is energy suppliers have to be i think 98.4% accurate with its purchase of energy vs its sales of energy to its customer. if its under this regulation state they have to pay more per unit it buys as a penalty. if its over this its cheaper to buy each unit. if it falls below 90 or 94% i think, they get put on special measure and targets are set to get it up to standard otherwise theycan lose their supplier license which means no more energy supplier!

Wow 140 pages ill read that one in the morning

I didn't realise how heavily regulated the buying/selling was. That's quite an eye opener . Is this the EU or homegrown regs do you know?

Thanks for that explanation makes much more sense now. I won't bother guessing what you do for a job

I have absolutely no issues with them making profit. If they pay tax on it then can make as much as they want in my opinion. However it's all too easy to see how some are really feeling the pinch when commodities raise their prices and wages don't follow

 

[Mynight]

Apparantly they are cell phone data using rather than wifi(I screwed up op).

So that's me out in my street as its landline/wifi or nothing. I live in a black spot for all telecoms despite living in a fairly big town

 

[Mynight]

Haha to be honest its all jargon unless your familiar with it and yes i;m employed by one of the big six lol

All regs are home grown and its a lot more complicated than the media make out and people understand. For example your supplier isnt 1 company its 4 entities.

Supplier: that bills you and who you deal with
Data Collector: That deals with the settlement side and purchase versus sales for the business based on each customers account.
MOP: Meter operator so the chaps that come and change your meter etc
DA: Data aggregator which take the settlement and PVS information from the DC check and collate and send this to Elexon which is the regulating body

To be comical about it you can have British Gas supplying you, Accuread dealing with the data collection and the data aggregation and Scottish power dealing with the meter installation and exchanges etc .... all for one customer. To top it all off you then need to get all these different companies talking together effectively which isn't always the case

Pre De-privatization in 1996 it was actually a lot easier .. if you were in London EDF was the company that suppliers you and did everything part of the above for themselves, there was no choice or option. Post De-privatization its a web of contracts and agreements with companies.

One of the few companies that do the supplier, DC and DA side all in house with only some meter operator areas contract our is EON to be honest and their DC and supplier sides instead of being separate business in separate offices in the country are all under one roof working a lot smoother and a lot more efficiently, but it took 5 years to get the regulatory clearance to allow them to do that and to date are the only company to do this.

I must be honest and say I think its a bit over complicated having 4 seperate entities running things. Communication is poor within single companies sometimes let alone between 4. However as proved I don't really know enough to comment. I would have thought it would have been like broadband where the vast majority of infrastructure is operated by one company and then sublet to others to cover bills/production and services. Bit to late to change that though .

Its surprising how much we take for granted. I always assumed power companies built their generators(whatever type) then just charged the earth for the supply. I wonder if regs standards were dropped if costs could come down.

I won't lie I still fully intend on playing with one of the smart meters before I jump in and say fit one(assuming they have a contingency for black spots like mine).