Smart meter rollout

[PlacidCasual]

Smart meters are a Government requirement as is the timetable and the requirements of the install. So many things that we blame the energy utilities for are actually a consequence of Government or EU policy.

I'm pretty neutral on smart meters I don't think the pros or cons are particularly large.

 

[Zenduri]

If you refuse to allow the gas or electric board access to your house to replace or check on a meter you can fully expect one result.
I hope you have a generator handy, as they will cut your supply off if you refuse to allow them to maintain their equipment to the currently required standard (or even just inspect it).

Correction, as the energy companies have a legal obligation to visually inspect the meters at least every 2 years if the customer refuses access they can go to court for a warrant to force entry with a locksmith to inspect it... all billed to you!

People need to stop being such cretinous asses saying they wont let them in etc.

 

[Zenduri]

ON a side not all these smart meters will only work once they set up the "central meter reading agency" (to those not in the know) Where rather than all supplies having their own meter readers its done by one company who reads everyone's for any company and report the smart readings back.

At the moment if Accuread install a smart meter for British Gas and then in a year you move to Npower you will lose the smart functionality until you go back to British Gas. When it's all finally setup you wont lose the functionality if you switch but at the moment its all going through legislation before being set up.

Also a lot of the first Generation of Smart meters aren't compliant with the government legislation that will allow the central meter reading database to read them so a lot of current smart meter customers will have to have their smart meters replaced

 

[Zenduri]

They not getting in period.

We own the house we pay our bills, so no I am not
having a smart snooping meter in my house and I am not paying for the
privilege either.

To me it is just another way to snoop and is also open to hacking and all kinds abuse.

And im going to bet your the kind of customer that kicks off about an estimated bill being too high when you haven't let anyone read the meter and haven't bothered to do it yourself.

There are way to many people like this and in all fairness..... you deserve the hassle if you wont help he energy companies get it right

 

[mattyfez]

Smart meters are a Government requirement as is the timetable and the requirements of the install. So many things that we blame the energy utilities for are actually a consequence of Government or EU policy.

I'm pretty neutral on smart meters I don't think the pros or cons are particularly large.

Assuming the technology is secure and reliable the obvious consumer benefit is that you'd never over pay by way of estimated readings paid by direct debit.

But that's something that can be accomplished simply by submitting a meter reading, so it begs two questions, who's paying for the upgrade (that's pretty obv) and how much admin/labour will it save them (that's pretty obv too).

It won't actually save the consumer anything other than the effort of submitting readings, aand prevent them (allegedly) from over paying.

 

[itchy]

Correction, as the energy companies have a legal obligation to visually inspect the meters at least every 2 years if the customer refuses access they can go to court for a warrant to force entry with a locksmith to inspect it... all billed to you!

People need to stop being such cretinous asses saying they wont let them in etc.

Thats for inspection I let them in every 3 months no problem.

What is wrong with not wanting a smart meter. 95% of our house
runs on electricity only the boiler is gas.

So I want them to know when I am cooking, taking a shower etc. Say for instance I start using lots of power. Say I start mining or whatever and my use is over EU guidlines for my size house?

Do I get a knock on the door ? Do I have to explain my power usage?

No I pay for it, I will use it and not be monitored. Because that is what the agender will be mark my words.

No not happening

 

[Mynight]

You know as paranoid as the mandated eu power usage sounds it is all to plausible

 

[Zenduri]

Thats for inspection I let them in every 3 months no problem.

What is wrong with not wanting a smart meter. 95% of our house
runs on electricity only the boiler is gas.

So I want them to know when I am cooking, taking a shower etc. Say for instance I start using lots of power. Say I start mining or whatever and my use is over EU guidlines for my size house?

Do I get a knock on the door ? Do I have to explain my power usage?

No I pay for it, I will use it and not be monitored. Because that is what the agender will be mark my words.

No not happening

Firstly the suppliers wont ever see the SMART meter data as it will go to a central database not ran by any supplier. So they wont be able to tell when you're cooking etc as you put it. They would only see a daily consumption.

No-one will query your usage unless you are using it in a way that suggests you're doing something dodgy like running a weed farm but the tolerances for a domestic supply daily consumption are quite broad anyway.

As long as your paying for it why should the energy company care what you are doing as long as you aren't stealing it

 

[PlacidCasual]

As I understand it readings will only be sent once or twice a day which should diminish some privacy woes. I think another benefit will be an expected reduction in energy theft and ability to avoid expensive recovery procedures.

 

[itchy]

You just said it! Central Database and I trust that word like the NSA.

I do not like this technology creep at all and I love technology.

 

[TheVoice]

They not getting in period.

We own the house we pay our bills, so no I am not
having a smart snooping meter in my house and I am not paying for the
privilege either.

To me it is just another way to snoop and is also open to hacking and all kinds abuse.

You sound paranoid. What is a hacker going to do with information about your energy usage (ignoring the fact that it uses a mobile network so can't really be hacked)?

 

[Zenduri]

Assuming the technology is secure and reliable the obvious consumer benefit is that you'd never over pay by way of estimated readings paid by direct debit.

But that's something that can be accomplished simply by submitting a meter reading, so it begs two questions, who's paying for the upgrade (that's pretty obv) and how much admin/labour will it save them (that's pretty obv too).

It won't actually save the consumer anything other than the effort of submitting readings, aand prevent them (allegedly) from over paying.

To give an example.... for the first 6 months to date for all small to medium business customers joining one particular supplier..... anyone seeing me post will guess who I'm referring to, 54% of all accounts were started with an actual accurate meter readings. the remaining 46% were estimated because....

a) the customer ignored the letter asking for a meter reading
b) the meter reader sent around especially to take that starting reading couldn't get access.
c) The customer didn't respond to the subsequent email and/ or phone call asking for a reading

That is a lot of expenditure for just over 50% return rate for an actual reading.

Of those same number of customer of the same period of time 43% submitted a reading or allowed access to the meter reader to take a reading for their first bill with the new supplier meaning they were either

1) billed from an estimate at the start through to an actual reading for the first bill
2)billed from an actual at the supply start to an actual reading.

Again over 50% of customers estimated which means customers calling in complaining about overpaying or under paying or just being mardy about it being estimated.

Something like 33% of the same number of customers over the same period of time received a bill with both a starting and first bill estimated readings..... and then proceed to kick off and moan and complain.

From an energy suppliers point of view we need smart meters as quite simply the customer cant be trusted to take responsibility for their supply and help ensure their own bills are correct by working with the energy supplier.

Obviously the figures change for domestic customers but I'm not sure on those figures but this gives a good example of the problems

 

[Zenduri]

As I understand it readings will only be sent once or twice a day which should diminish some privacy woes. I think another benefit will be an expected reduction in energy theft and ability to avoid expensive recovery procedures.

They can actually be taken hourly lol and when the supplier is booking the appointments to fit a compliant smart meter with the customer they legally have to advise the customer of this

 

[Mynight]

Even using phone network it can be captured/hacked stingrays can be built for cheap.

What is this central database used for then? Would it be sold for advertisers? "We see you love your tea would you like a more power efficient kettle?" (Clearly I am not an advertiser

 

[Zenduri]

You just said it! Central Database and I trust that word like the NSA.

I do not like this technology creep at all and I love technology.

Currently all electric and gas is bought 12-14months in advance and is based on the estimated annual consumption for your property based on your readings (it adjusts with each reading received) so the energy company is having to forcast over a year ahead for prices.

If the energy company knows what all of its customers are using at any one time it can forecast down to weeks or even days so they can they buy the electric and gas on spot prices and react better to fluctuations in the market which takes the guessing game away from it.

 

[Mynight]

Currently all electric and gas is bought 12-14months in advance and is based on the estimated annual consumption for your property based on your readings (it adjusts with each reading received) so the energy company is having to forcast over a year ahead for prices.

If the energy company knows what all of its customers are using at any one time it can forecast down to weeks or even days so they can they buy the electric and gas on spot prices and react better to fluctuations in the market which takes the guessing game away from it.

Surely they know what the total usage from the network is? Even if its not down to house level. So they should have enough data to forecast.

Not disagreeing just querying

 

[Zenduri]

Even using phone network it can be captured/hacked stingrays can be built for cheap.

What is this central database used for then? Would it be sold for advertisers? "We see you love your tea would you like a more power efficient kettle?" (Clearly I am not an advertiser

nothing currently as it doesnt exist yet.

Currently for example EDF supplier wants to read a meter in scotland so they contract to Scottish Power meter readers to read that meter. Another customer may be in wales so they contract to Swaelec meter readers and it then filters down to EDF.

If you have a smart meter installed by Bglobal metering on behalf of British Gas for example only the suppliers that have a contract with BGlobal metering can use them to remotely read the smart meter. If they dont have a contract or are unsupported in the area the meter is in for that energy supplier then it falls back to being a "Dumb" smart meter which cant remotely send reads.

The new compliant smart meters will be read essentially by one "Super meter reader company" that can read any smart meter anywhere and send the readings to any supplier that needs it. All they collect is meter readings and they aren't allowed to do anything with the readings over than send them to the relevant suppliers who need them.

There is no data mining for marketing etc lol

 

[TheVoice]

Even using phone network it can be captured/hacked stingrays can be built for cheap.

If people want to hack my energy meter in order to find out how much electricity I'm using, so be it, but it'd be easier for them to hack my wi-fi and actually get some usable/personal information I suspect.

 

[Zenduri]

Surely they know what the total usage from the network is? Even if its not down to house level. So they should have enough data to forecast.

Not disagreeing just querying

Welcome to the world of the BSCP504 my friend lol This will Burn the back of your eyes out

In short an energy supplier buys say 1,000,000 KWH of energy at a set price based on what its forcasted (based on the estimated annual consumption figures) to sell to its customers.

If it sells 900,000 for that period it then has to sell the over procured Kwh back to the grid for a reduced rate which loses money

if it sells 1,100,000 Kwh it will have to buy more to cover but at a different and often more expensive price.

By allowing more accurate buying the theory is the cost is lower so the price to the consumer should be lower. (I know what your thinking... more profit....)

On the flip side as well is energy suppliers have to be i think 98.4% accurate with its purchase of energy vs its sales of energy to its customer. if its under this regulation state they have to pay more per unit it buys as a penalty. if its over this its cheaper to buy each unit. if it falls below 90 or 94% i think, they get put on special measure and targets are set to get it up to standard otherwise theycan lose their supplier license which means no more energy supplier!

 

[Mynight]

Welcome to the world of the BSCP504 my friend lol This will Burn the back of your eyes out

In short an energy supplier buys say 1,000,000 KWH of energy at a set price based on what its forcasted (based on the estimated annual consumption figures) to sell to its customers.

If it sells 900,000 for that period it then has to sell the over procured Kwh back to the grid for a reduced rate which loses money

if it sells 1,100,000 Kwh it will have to buy more to cover but at a different and often more expensive price.

By allowing more accurate buying the theory is the cost is lower so the price to the consumer should be lower. (I know what your thinking... more profit....)

On the flip side as well is energy suppliers have to be i think 98.4% accurate with its purchase of energy vs its sales of energy to its customer. if its under this regulation state they have to pay more per unit it buys as a penalty. if its over this its cheaper to buy each unit. if it falls below 90 or 94% i think, they get put on special measure and targets are set to get it up to standard otherwise theycan lose their supplier license which means no more energy supplier!

Wow 140 pages ill read that one in the morning

I didn't realise how heavily regulated the buying/selling was. That's quite an eye opener . Is this the EU or homegrown regs do you know?

Thanks for that explanation makes much more sense now. I won't bother guessing what you do for a job

I have absolutely no issues with them making profit. If they pay tax on it then can make as much as they want in my opinion. However it's all too easy to see how some are really feeling the pinch when commodities raise their prices and wages don't follow