It’s not dumb though it works well on the m42 it has been a much better road to drive on since it went ‘smart’. As I said it was supposed to be the bench mark for smart motorways. It is the later decision to drastically reduce the number of safe refuges and opting for permanent hard shoulder running that seem to have messed the system up completely and I don’t really understand why.
Smart Motorways
- Thread starter Orionaut
- Start date
The issue I often come across on 'smart' motorways is when you go from NSL to a 50 restriction. The locals know that on this particular gantry there isn't a camera so as you slow to 50 you are then a rolling road block with cars passing either side going 50% faster than you are. Absolute worst case you have a HGV behind you at this point who will sit inches off your rear bumper because you are now holding them up by driving a few mph off their limited top speed.
That is unless it happens to be a gantry that does have a camera where the locals, knowing this, will stand on the brakes to pass 10 mph below the displayed limit, you know, 'just in case' before nailing it to the next camera.
Personally I'd much rather they didn't exist but I'd also have preferred that there hadn't been decades of lack of investment in road improvement followed by a sticking plaster approach of driving on the hard shoulder but there we are.
That is unless it happens to be a gantry that does have a camera where the locals, knowing this, will stand on the brakes to pass 10 mph below the displayed limit, you know, 'just in case' before nailing it to the next camera.
Personally I'd much rather they didn't exist but I'd also have preferred that there hadn't been decades of lack of investment in road improvement followed by a sticking plaster approach of driving on the hard shoulder but there we are.
I say more and more to myself these days when driving, "why can't people just drive normally" - albeit it is me driving more abnormally by driving mostly to the posted limits and conditions. Had someone following me yesterday - while doing 60 in the NSLs they were way behind me, any time the road was not suitable for 60 or speed limit dropped due to going through villages, etc. they were right up my arse - absolutely no need for it. (I suspect if I hadn't been in front of them they'd have done a constant 45-50MPH irrespective of whether it was 30 or NSL).
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There is a simple fix to that, install dummy cameras on every gantry and randomly move the real ones around people would soon learn to obey the signs. Not that I’ve experienced much as bad as you describe usually when the limits are up it’s busy enough to slow things down anyway.
Part of the problem with investing more in bigger and bigger roads is the research just shows that every time you expand capacity the number of cars just expands to fill it.
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Soldato
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- 27 Mar 2013
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It does annoy me, hgvs getting up your rear is pretty intimidating and as "professional" drivers they should all know better.
HGV’s need to be fixed so they all actually have the same maximum speed for starters would free up miles and miles of dual carriageways from the depression of 1mph lorry overtakes!
Yea that is really annoying. Causes huge moving tailbacks for no reason.
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They should either ban HGV’s from leaving the inside lane except to overtake special loads or come up with a limiter that actually works!
Limiters do work I can assure you, what they cannot do is overcome the laws of physics meaning when 40+ tons of truck travels downhill it’s speed will increase beyond that set by the limiter which just restricts fuel to the engine and does not interact with the braking system.
Soldato
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- 27 Mar 2013
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If you had some sort of "boost" function so they could maybe go up 60 for a short while it would solve a lot of issues. Nox maybe 
. I don't mind wagons overtaking, but it would be nice if they could only do it to someone going really slow or on a 3 lane road, then there'd be less issues.
. I don't mind wagons overtaking, but it would be nice if they could only do it to someone going really slow or on a 3 lane road, then there'd be less issues.
I don’t mind lorries overtaking each other, I understand why they have to do it and what happens if they don’t.
What frustrates me is when they ignore the handful of small sections of the road where they’re not allowed to overtake. I don’t think I’ve driven along that section of the A14 or the M11 where lorry overtaking is forbidden and not seen them overtaking. It’s prohibited for a reason, try actually obeying the restriction for just those few miles please.
What frustrates me is when they ignore the handful of small sections of the road where they’re not allowed to overtake. I don’t think I’ve driven along that section of the A14 or the M11 where lorry overtaking is forbidden and not seen them overtaking. It’s prohibited for a reason, try actually obeying the restriction for just those few miles please.
I do, and am incredibly naffed off by the minority of hgv drivers who don’t adhere to this requirement, unfortunately a minority that I feel is increasing….
If you had some sort of "boost" function so they could maybe go up 60 for a short while it would solve a lot of issues. Nox maybe
I've thought of similair! like some sort of system that senses if another HGV is on your nearside then that would limit the truck being overtaken or a 'boost' for the truck that's started the overtake so they can't be 'elephant racing' for miles...but there's likely so many problems with that
what you're supposed to do is slow down a bit if another truck is overtaking and let them past, but again there's some drivers that just don't care (think) and others who try to overtake (going up/down hills) when it's obvious who they're overtaking will just catch up with them again almost instantly so that doesn't always happen!
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I experience this in the motorhome, its difficult to gauge how much speed you'll lose for a given hill with s given weight.. sometimes you csn pull out into lane 2 with all good intentions then realise there's no more loud pedal leftI've thought of similair! like some sort of system that senses if another HGV is on your nearside then that would limit the truck being overtaken or a 'boost' for the truck that's started the overtake so they can't be 'elephant racing' for miles...but there's likely so many problems with that
what you're supposed to do is slow down a bit if another truck is overtaking and let them past, but again there's some drivers that just don't care (think) and others who try to overtake (going up/down hills) when it's obvious who they're overtaking will just catch up with them again almost instantly so that doesn't always happen!
Actually there's an even easier fix to that, and we deploy the systems during roadworks so it's a tried and tested method. Record the timestamp of every car travelling under the gantry and at the next gantry, work out the average speed and then apply that to the local guidelines for prosecuting on speed.
Do they not get ticketed, or is there no camera on that section?
They would get ticketed if we had traffic police these days - which effectively we don’t - as for the gantry cameras, no, I don’t think they do.
Why do we see the 1 mph overtakes (and not just down hill) then if all trucks are restricted to the same speed? That’s the point I was trying to make about them not working. If it is all down to weight then the restrictors need to work on speed not revs.
They do work off speed not engine revs :s, its just that there is an inherrant margin for error in that the rolling circumferance of the wheels varies with how worn down the tyres are, I don't know how much tread they start with but its a lot more than car tyres and they are big wheels, now if the last time the speedo was calibrated for the tacho was at a time when the tyres were worn down, when they are changed, the speed will under read. Now its not as if some independant operators would arrange it to happen like that on purpose... its just the luck of the draw....
If of course you are proposing that they should obtain road speed in a way thats not affected by the changing circumference of the tyres, then I'd be interested in how you propose this be done, and don't say GPS, because this too can have inaccuracies and these can be a lot more variable than a calibrated speedo, plus it can lag a bit and drop out totally in some small areas.
Maybe its possible these days to have a speedo based system that has a fiddle factor built in for tyre wear that it self calibrates on set straight sections of road where the GPS is likely to be good and takes into account many such mearsements and stays within a minimum and maximum slope value from the number of miles since the last official calibrataion, and knows how to handle a sudden jump the other way when tyres are replaced. It would still not be compleley accurate though and would probably take a lot of development and implentation and introduce some new failure modes into it all!
I still think the easy solution is just to restrict them to the inside lane unless passing an ‘unusual load’ over the years I’ve wasted so much time watching lorries playing the 1mph game that it takes the P and yes I would also support a minimum speed on the motorway if you or your vehicle are incapable of driving at an appropriate speed then you probably shouldn’t be in the road.
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