Smokers

Scam said:
Comparing smoking to cars is just stupid.
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Drinking, then.
I get far more drunk people leering up to me as I walk past, than I get facefulls of nasty, icky smoke. I also tend not to get smokers starting fights with me just because I'm not smoking with them, wearing the right football shirt, have an acceptable colour of hair or whatever.
I don't turn up to work reeking of smoke and get subjected to a D&A test.
I'm not likely to kill someone just because I'm smoking a cigarette while driving...

It's all taxation - You should be thanking me for subsidising your way and just accept that the occasional whiff is the price you pay.
 
Mr Blonde said:
Smoking related illnesses costs the NHS around the £2 billion a year mark and yet we provide five to ten times that amount back in tax revenue as a consequence to the country.
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ttaskmaster said:
It's all taxation - You should be thanking me for subsidising your way and just accept that the occasional whiff is the price you pay.
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You know your argument is falling apart when you have to resort to "but I pay loads of tax because of it"..

The drinking one is probably the best comparison. However if we're talking 'best case scenario' for both habits... Someone smokes a single cigarette next to you - you end up smelling it, inhaling it, smelling of it for the rest of the day. On the flipside, someone drinks a single glass of wine next to you. Nothing. No smell, no cancer, no secondhand drinking. There's still a difference.
 
Scam said:
You know your argument is falling apart when
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And yet, in spite of aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the anti-smoking campaigns, people are still smoking... which doesn't bode well for your argument, either.

The ONLY way you will stop this and obtain your eternal life fantasy of having slightly cleaner air is to ban the sale of tobacco outright, criminalise its use, withdraw all support (medical and otherwise) for smokers and clamp down hard on anyone found smoking.

Meanwhile, I'm going for a cigarette - Who's coming? :p
 
ttaskmaster said:
And yet, in spite of aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the anti-smoking campaigns, people are still smoking... which doesn't bode well for your argument, either.

The ONLY way you will stop this and obtain your eternal life fantasy of having slightly cleaner air is to ban the sale of tobacco outright, criminalise its use, withdraw all support (medical and otherwise) for smokers and clamp down hard on anyone found smoking.

Meanwhile, I'm going for a cigarette - Who's coming? :p
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Uhh,
ash.org.uk said:
Smoking rates have more than halved since 1974
when 51% of men and 41% of women smoked
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StriderX said:
Uhh,
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No-one has ever surveyed me about my smoking, so immediately those stats do not include everyone.
They're representative of one section of the population only.
Stats can also be manipulated, misinterpreted and downright inaccurate. I'm sure governments would *never* alter or skew statistical reports to reflect the complete opposite of the truth... but since ours did exactly this when reporting on London bus-lane use by two-wheelers and motorcyclists who were untaxed, the possibility is there for some fiddling.

Also, in many databases, I am actually listed as a non-smoker too, so that's the idea of quoting "A European study" out the window...
 
ttaskmaster said:
No-one has ever surveyed me about my smoking, so immediately those stats do not include everyone.
They're representative of one section of the population only.
Stats can also be manipulated, misinterpreted and downright inaccurate. I'm sure governments would *never* alter or skew statistical reports to reflect the complete opposite of the truth... but since ours did exactly this when reporting on London bus-lane use by two-wheelers and motorcyclists who were untaxed, the possibility is there for some fiddling.

Also, in many databases, I am actually listed as a non-smoker too, so that's the idea of quoting "A European study" out the window...
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They don't need to talk to you to have a representative sample - that's not how statistics work.

Also statistics are usually pretty useful as long as they are conducted using accepted methodologies and interpreted using the information contained in the reports. If in doubt, look at the data yourself rather than relying on other's interpretations.

All studies have a margin of error but that doesn't mean the overarching conclusions aren't reliable.
 
I started at 18 was social thing to start with smoking and drinking went hand in hand, then started smoking at work out of boredom i think we had many a cig break on the buiilding sites i worked on.

finally packed up for good in 2004.
 
russell664 said:
Generally, I find that a lot of smokers I have known have all started in school, wanting to blend in with the 'cool kids' :p

However, some just started due to going out on nights out kind of thing.

I have never smoked anything, so cannot comment, as I wasn't a cool kid. :( :p :mad:
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How big was smokers corner back then? I remember seeing over a hundred people. Getting chased away at times from the P.E. teachers. The teachers eventually gave up.

Wonder what it is like today...

Efour said:
Couldn't agree more. Went back to London this summer and was amazed how vaping has taken off but, and its a big but, Essex boys vaping look so ridiculous i think i would rather just quit entirely.

Is that the point of them? They look so big and stupid, like sucking on a light sabre hilt, that you quit through shame.:p
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In so many flavours as well. What the heck...

cheesyboy said:
Fat people make you eat more food, though - thus potentially making you fat:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18629930
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What is on the last page is truly horrific. Scarring even. Can't gouge out your minds eye.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Also statistics are usually pretty useful as long as they are conducted using accepted methodologies and interpreted using the information contained in the reports.
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Assuming the data they are using is useful in itself.
Having a similar problem at work over a flooding study - Out of a whole network, only a few people say they have experienced flooding, despite us having photos of the flooded properties where people are outright denying it... and this is a study offering FREE flooding alleviation systems!!

The point is that many smokers lie about their smoking, to avoid the usual nagging off a doctor or some other reason.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Assuming the data they are using is useful in itself.
Having a similar problem at work over a flooding study - Out of a whole network, only a few people say they have experienced flooding, despite us having photos of the flooded properties where people are outright denying it... and this is a study offering FREE flooding alleviation systems!!

The point is that many smokers lie about their smoking, to avoid the usual nagging off a doctor or some other reason.
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That will all be part of the methodology and will be compensated for.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Assumption?
Yeah, fallen foul of that one, too... It's still guesswork.

Still not feeling in any way inclined or driven to quit, though.
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I personally feel pretty damn good in myself and have done for many years, happy in the knowledge that the extra taxes I throw into the coffers of the country gets put to such noble and worthy causes that everyone benefits from :)
 
ttaskmaster said:
The ONLY way you will stop this and obtain your eternal life fantasy of having slightly cleaner air is to ban the sale of tobacco outright, criminalise its use, withdraw all support (medical and otherwise) for smokers and clamp down hard on anyone found smoking.
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I'd be happy for them to do that. It'll probably happen sometime in the future and we'll all look back in sheer incredulity that people willingly sucked lungfuls of tar down into their lungs and slowly killed themselves.

Again, the taxes argument. Why? Maybe we should let people speed everywhere in their cars, afterall they'll end up paying their fines and giving the taxman some extra money. So that's probably ok, right?
 
Scam said:
Again, the taxes argument. Why? Maybe we should let people speed everywhere in their cars, afterall they'll end up paying their fines and giving the taxman some extra money. So that's probably ok, right?
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Pretty much happens already - Most of the fuel price is tax and it generally only goes up. That along with fuel companies buying and then closing public transport routes, forcing more people to use fuel-dependent cars...

Price people out of the market - Only way.
 
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