Snow White 2024

[Chuk_Chuk]

But they are writing them for children

They are writing them for kids through the eyes and lens of an adult.

But they are writing them for children. I've quite a broad spectrum of music that I like and consider myself an open minded music listener but I obviously have my favourite genres.

I predominately listen to hip-hop and jungle so if someone sent me a CD Apple Music playlist and said "Hey, check out this Norwegian Black Metal band, they're insanely talented!" and I listen to it and think it's pure guff, does that mean it's not quality? Or is it something that just isn't made for me?

That's how I see kids tv/shows. It's not being made for me so how can I expect it to appeal to me? When it does, it's a huge bonus. But when it doesn't? Well it's just something else for her to enjoy

I answered this already but you missed it when quoting.

I also have no interest in the head banging, screeching sound known as rock/metal or whatever genre of music that is. But I can acknowledge a skilful guitarist or drummer.

You may not like a show but you can acknowledge that characters are well written, that the story is good etc… or in the case of kids the lessons that it teaches children are good.

If I as a 35 year old guy think Snow White is ***** but my friends 9 year old daughter loves it. Who is right? Whose opinion in that instance is 'worth' more? I feel like it isn't my opinion we should be listening to in that instance. I feel like some in this thread if they walked by two 10 year olds saying they loved the film they'd probably tell them why they're wrong.

The person who is right is the person that can make the best argument to defend their reasoning. Nobody is right because of immutable traits. The only opinion that might be worth more is an experienced reviewer and even then it’s only slight.

It's a free world and we're all fully within our rights to praise/condemn whatever it is we want to but I've picked the hill I wish to die on and that hill is that I think grown men getting bent out of shape over a Disney princess film is a bit sad. Maybe I'm just a sexist but I'd have more sympathy if this was Star Wars or something. Not much, mind you. But more sympathy than I have for Snow White.

Good for you. I’m fully aware that this is the real reason you have been “replying” to me, so that you can fit your monologue in.

 

[Junglist]

Interesting discussion going on here.

Can we just all agree that Disney is a shadow of itself, and they stuff they are churning out is trash. Even my kids think so. No need for all these live action remakes, no need to recast actors to tick boxes. Its beyond a joke now.

I'd disagree because their animated films have still been great. Frozen/2, Moana, Coco (that made me bawl my eyes out when I first saw it) and Encanto were all exceptional. I haven't yet seen Moana 2 but it's on D+ in a week or so and quite looking forward to it.

The live action remakes have been pretty rubbish though. The only live action one I liked, if it even counts, was the old 101 Dalmatians films.

Edit: Actually Aladdin was a good time. Quite liked the change to 'Prince Ali' and 'Never had a friend like me'. I think a lot of my issue with the remakes is that I always expect them to be a 1:1 remake, scene for scene. When they often have more or less the same story then add in a few random parts.

I guess the cartoons feel more like a musical with the songs coming one after another whereas the new live action remakes they put too much filler in between the songs

They are writing them for kids through the eyes and lens of an adult.

Obviously but until a child is able to write and produce their own show it will always be that way.

I answered this already but you missed it when quoting.

I also have no interest in the head banging, screeching sound known as rock/metal or whatever genre of music that is. But I can acknowledge a skilful guitarist or drummer.

You may not like a show but you can acknowledge that characters are well written, that the story is good etc… or in the case of kids the lessons that it teaches children are good.

Apologies, I did miss your part about putting aside personal feelings. Not with Death Metal, I can't! Sounds horrible to my ears and it wouldn't be found on my playlists but I wouldn't call it rubbish just because I don't like it. Somethings I find easier to appreciate than others.

Again, I don't like Peppa pig. She's written like a horrible little brat, her brother just whines and cries and the dad is an incompetent tool. I can't find anything I like about the show. Despite that even as much as I hated it and thought it was rubbish, it was obviously doing something right that it would connect to my child. It was only because I felt it was instilling bad behaviour that I stopped her watching it. Not because I thought it was poorly written.

The person who is right is the person that can make the best argument to defend their reasoning. Nobody is write because of immutable traits. The only opinion that might be worth more is an experienced reviewer and even then it’s only slight.

How can someone be right when the medium being discussed is subjective? There is no right or wrong answer for art. It's what the person who views it feels. It's not a scientific topic with hard numbers that we can compare and contrast. Opinions are just that, opinions. We all have them and we are all entitled to them but when it comes to something subjective, it's just that. An opinion and not a fact.

It's like Tracey Emin's Messy bed bit of art. I just see a messy bed that someone dumped into the Tate whereas some people see all sort of intricate details and messages. Neither stance is more valid than the other it just shows we all have different tastes.

Good for you. I’m fully aware that this is the real reason you have been “replying” to me, so that you can fit your monologue in.

If that is what you think I've been doing then don't bother replying to me.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

How can someone be right when the medium being discussed is subjective? There is no right or wrong answer for art. It's what the person who views it feels. It's not a scientific topic with hard numbers that we can compare and contrast. Opinions are just that, opinions. We all have them and we are all entitled to them but when it comes to something subjective, it's just that. An opinion and not a fact.

It's like Tracey Emin's Messy bed bit of art. I just see a messy bed that someone dumped into the Tate whereas some people see all sort of intricate details and messages. Neither stance is more valid than the other it just shows we all have different tastes.

Hard disagree there are distinctly objective parts about art or in this case story telling. There has to be objective portions otherwise there is no way for people to be skilful at it.

If that is what you think I've been doing then don't bother replying to me.

 

[Thekwango]

Again, I don't like Peppa pig.

peppa pig and ben and holly were both banned in our house - horrid shows with terrible, bratty characters. both hugely popular though.

 

[Junglist]

Hard disagree there are distinctly objective parts about art or in this case story telling. There has to be objective portions otherwise there is no way for people to be skilful at it.

I think my art example was probably quite poor because I'd say art, in the sense of pictures/media, is probably more subjective than writing because a bad line is a bad line and I think most can agree when there is a poorly written line.

I just don't know how you can correctly define what makes art objectively good. I love The Wire. I think it's one of, if not the, best written show on TV yet I've seen lots of people say it's boring and give up before S1 finishes. It doesn't compute in my mind as I think every character offers something and not a line of dialogue is wasted but if someone doesn't see that or if it doesn't connect with them how on earth can I go "well you're wrong because this line is great" etc.

I do think we can have a general consensus opinion and that is what often makes the cream rise to the top but I wouldn't say it makes it objective. It's literally the definition of the word. What facts can I use to prove to the world that The Wire is the greatest show ever? I can use numbers to back up its popularity and prove it was a success but I can't use any facts to prove it is substantially better written than Grant returning on Eastenders. It's all just feelings and emotions. We can say it won awards based on lots of people sharing similar opinions but that's about it. I don't have anything concrete to present and say why X is better than Z.

You can use an eye rolling emoji all you like but I just find it unnecessarily rude, when I haven't been rude to you, to suggest I just want to have a monologue because we don't have the same opinion. I just enjoy talking to people on subjects we disagree on. You don't need to waste your time replying to me if you think I'm being a troll or whatever.

peppa pig and ben and holly were both banned in our house - horrid shows with terrible, bratty characters. both hugely popular though.

Yeah, I have no idea why it causes it but after a few days of watching it she started having lots of tantrums and all sorts of behaviour that seemed out of character. Stopped letting her watch it and suddenly she was back to normal. Properly bizarre.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I think my art example was probably quite poor because I'd say art, in the sense of pictures/media, is probably more subjective than writing because a bad line is a bad line and I think most can agree when there is a poorly written line

My comment still stands if anything I think it is more applicable to pictures and media.

I just don't know how you can correctly define what makes art objectively good. I love The Wire. I think it's one of, if not the, best written show on TV yet I've seen lots of people say it's boring and give up before S1 finishes. It doesn't compute in my mind as I think every character offers something and not a line of dialogue is wasted but if someone doesn't see that or if it doesn't connect with them how on earth can I go "well you're wrong because this line is great" etc.

You’ve done it here, have you not?
Taking you at your word, you have listed a bunch of objective qualities that make the wire a good show have you not?
Characters from their behaviour to their motivations and history,
The story. How does it progress, how do the characters affect the story.
How was the cinematography? Did it enhance the story?
The audio.

All of this mixed together with right quantities leads to something being good. However that is not a guarantee that everyone will enjoy it. Admittedly How it all comes together might be on the more subjective scale. Just because it’s not someone else’s cup of tea doesn’t mean that it is objectively a bad show. Similarly people can enjoy things even if they are objectively bad.

Rather than talking in vaguenesses maybe you need to pick say a scene in a film and we can break it down and discuss it.

You can use an eye rolling emoji all you like but I just find it unnecessarily rude, when I haven't been rude to you, to suggest I just want to have a monologue because we don't have the same opinion. I just enjoy talking to people on subjects we disagree on. You don't need to waste your time replying to me if you think I'm being a troll or whatever.

On the topic of kids shows it felt more like you were talking at me rather than to me. You only vaguely addressed my points and, at one point you don’t seem to be keeping track of the discussion, as if you forgot why something was brought up. I will admit I am far more cynical now (too much time in the trenches of toxic discourse) but generally when that happens people are simply using it as an opportunity to say what they really want to talk about. Which is why I didn’t reply to any of those points and moved on to the art talk.

Yeah, I have no idea why it causes it but after a few days of watching it she started having lots of tantrums and all sorts of behaviour that seemed out of character. Stopped letting her watch it and suddenly she was back to normal. Properly bizarre.

She is copying them. She sees them as some sort of “hero” she wishes to be like. That’s why her behaviour changes.

 

[Junglist]

My comment still stands if anything I think it is more applicable to pictures and media.

I really don't see it that way, personally. My partner is an artist. A couple of weeks ago she did a painting and asked what I thought. To me, I said it looked like something that belongs in a palliative care ward as it was just giving me that sort of vibe. She didn't listen to me, posted it on Reddit and much to my surprise it was popular enough she had to send it to her printer to get it colour corrected and prints made of as several people asked to buy it.

If it was me I would've told her to throw it away. I didn't like it at all but others clearly did to the point they wanted to spend money on it. It's all in the eye of the beholder

You’ve done it here, have you not?
Taking you at your word, you have listed a bunch of objective qualities that make the wire a good show have you not?
Characters from their behaviour to their motivations and history,
The story. How does it progress, how do the characters affect the story.
How was the cinematography? Did it enhance the story?
The audio.

All of this mixed together with right quantities leads to something being good. However that is not a guarantee that everyone will enjoy it. Admittedly How it all comes together might be on the more subjective scale. Just because it’s not someone else’s cup of tea doesn’t mean that it is objectively a bad show. Similarly people can enjoy things even if they are objectively bad.

But they are the things that I liked. One of my best friends can't stand it. He hates the lingo, the accents and finds the topics of crime, drugs and vice quite boring and played out. So while I think it's the greatest thing ever, he really doesn't understand the hype and gave up during the first season 2 or 3 times I tried to get him to watch it.

So the qualities I listed, by definition, are subjective. The only objective thing I could say was "Well, The Wire won a bunch of awards" as that is a fact and can be measured... But then I feel like I'm in a chicken and egg situation because awards are decided out on panels of judges sharing their opinions.

It's not like maths where we can say 1 +1 will always = 2. Art will always be open to debate because nothing is set in stone.

Rather than talking in vaguenesses maybe you need to pick say a scene in a film and we can break it down and discuss it.

One of my favourite episodes of Breaking Bad was the one where Walter White spent an episode trying to get a fly out of the lab. That episode seemed to really split the fans of the series. Even a quick Google search of the episode shows how divisive that episode was

If art was objective and not subjective, opinions on that episode wouldn't be so divided and it would converge 'is it good or bad?'

On the topic of kids shows it felt more like you were talking at me rather than to me. You only vaguely addressed my points and, at one point you don’t seem to be keeping track of the discussion, as if you forgot why something was brought up. I will admit I am far more cynical now (too much time in the trenches of toxic discourse) but generally when that happens people are simply using it as an opportunity to say what they really want to talk about. Which is why I didn’t reply to any of those points and moved on to the art talk.

No problem. I am quite forgetful at times so it's not out of malice or trying to cause an argument - just shout it louder at me, that's what my partner does! Apologies for being a little whiney bitch about it - wasn't even that rude really.

She is copying them. She sees them as some sort of “hero” she wishes to be like. That’s why her behaviour changes.

I wish she'd copy me with what I've asked the 5th,6th and 7th time

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

Good grief. I leave this thread alone for a fortnight and I come back to this

I have a friend who is quite anti-Disney but he said that Rachel is in the Hunger Games and has a good singing voice. Apparently she was told to wind her neck in on the politics and just get on with it for Hunger Games.

On the live action debate, I quite liked most of them and very much looking forwards to Lilo & Stitch.

 

[Bigpig]

On top of the London cancellation they are scaling back the Hollywood premiere!!

Disney Scales Back ‘Snow White’ Hollywood Premiere Amid Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot Controversies

'Snow White' stars Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot have faced backlash for comments about the movie's reimagining and their views on the Israel-Hamas war.

variety.com

 

[Grim5]

I have to be honest.. I am curious why so many adult men seem to have such keen interest in Snow White.

Have you ever considered that 30+ year old men weren't the target demographic for this film?

Based on statements from its actors in media, it sounds like the movie was made for Palestinians, Israelis and Dwarfs worldwide

I don't fall into this demographic, so I have no intention of watching it but I still lol at Disney continuing to put out content that most people don't want to watch

People will continue to laugh at Disney's misfortunes because they are a large capitalist corporation who has swallowed up beloved franchises from other studios and tried to ruin them

 

[Bigpig]

I honestly don’t get the defence here. This is a several hundred dallar production budget.

This ain’t no children film like peppa pig or Disney princess film short.

That audience Disney have been chasing doesn’t exist. “Girl boss”

 

[IvanDobskey]

I notice there is no sign of Zegler doing any pre release interviews. I reckon they've got her gagged in basement somewhere to prevent her saying any more dumb ****

 

[Darujhistan]

Zegler has hugely assisted the D.O.A of this movie status with her activism. I don't think even Disney are going to allow their actors and actresses to spew this DEI crap in future, if they are then they're recklessly stupid and beyond saving.

 

[the shadow]

Place bet$

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I honestly don’t get the defence here. This is a several hundred dallar production budget.

This ain’t no children film like peppa pig or Disney princess film short.

That audience Disney have been chasing doesn’t exist. “Girl boss”

The problem is that no-one in the entertainment industry (movies, TV shows and computer games) seems to have grasped that the “modern audience” these are pitched at will whinge endlessly on social media about everything needing to preach “the message”, but none of them are paying to see the movies or buy the games created for them.

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

Place bet$