Snowden files 'show massive UK spying op'

No1newts said:
Read your own scaremongering article. It says "the ability to" do something. Once again I'll repeat myself, the ability to do something does not constitute the act of doing.

Nations, individuals and business all have the ability to do any number of things to impinge on another's privacy but just because they CAN doesn't mean they are.

The great failure of that article and amongst most on here is they are seeing one thing and inferring another outcome that suits their own angle.
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But why spend all that money on equipment that has the ability to do something and not use it for it's intended purpose? You can bet a serious amount of money has been spent on the equipment needed. Why did GCHQ employ 250 people to shift through the data if they are not collecting data? We get spied on by our Governments. It's not about to stop anytime soon.
 
This Snowden guy doesn't sound great at all the way some people make him out to be with this latest leak.
 
soundb0y said:
The levels of apathy here really are terrifying.

Nothing to hide is not an excuse to have all your privacy removed.

As for the surprise obviously everyone thought it happened but the scope and depth of the surveillance is what is alarming.

Collecting ALL data AND being able to monitor anyone in near realtime. How can people think that's Ok? Yes our government are all nicey nicey at the moment, but as history has taught us that can soon change.

What if in the future it is used to track anyone with opposing political views? Then they can simply trace through your online life and use anything against you.

If these abilities fell into the wrong hands it would be devastating.
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This.

I get frightened by people who say I have nothing to hide so I don't care if they surveil me. That is not the point. Why should your emails, phone calls, faxes, web searches etc be stored and shifted through? As you say you have nothing to hide. You have nothing to hide also means you have done nothing wrong. As you have done nothing wrong you should be left alone free of somebody shifting through your emails, telephone calls, web habits, etc. History has shown us when things like this get started as a way of protecting its population (they spy on us to stop terrorism) it soon gets used against its own population and not in a nice way.

I will put my tin foil hat on for this as I am sure somebody will think it or say it. I watched a video called "The end of America" by an American author named Naomi Wolf. It's based on her book of the same name. As the video is available on you tube she must be spouting nonsense and she is a feminists so she must be crazy or something as well lol. I mean come on a you tube video with credible intelligent information? Are you kidding me? You tube is the Internet version of you have been framed and also has dumb Russia today propaganda videos. Somebody must have rubbed out the tin foil hat Naomi was wearing before uploading the video.

Anyway Naomi says in the video her mentor is an old Jewish woman. When certain laws where being passed and certain things were being done in America post 9/11 each time something new happened she would say to Naomi that happened in Germany. Basically her mentor was trying to say to Naomi she thought something was wrong with the USA and it reminded her of what slowly happened 1930's Germany. At first Naomi wasn't really paying much attention as in her words she thought her mentor was spouting crazy extremist nonsense. Then one day she went to visit her mentor. Her mentor gave her a pile of history books and told her to read them. After reading them Naomi became deeply concerned with what is currently happening in the USA. After doing further research Naomi said she came to the conclusion there is a blueprint to closing down a formally free and open society. People like Stalin, Hitler, Marx, Mussolini, etc all followed the blueprint. According to Naomi there are 10 steps that lead up to the creation of a Fascist Government. The 10 steps are

1) Hyping an internal or external threat. Well the USA and UK has that one in terrorism, Al Qaeda, etc. The USA and UK has hyped both the internal and external threat. 9/11 was used to create the war on terror and pass all the anti terror laws in the USA in the name of protecting the US people. 7/7 was used to create our war on terror and pass all the anti terror laws in the name of protecting the UK people. The actual real odds of being killed by a terrorist in the USA or UK are pretty minimal. You have more chance of being hit by bus or being struck by lightning. The last attack in the UK was 2005. The war on terror may be real but it is a hyped threat. They even use colour codes for how hyped the threat is. Hitler said the Jews were the threat. The USA and UK say Al Qaeda is the threat. They keep us in fear of another terrorist attack so we openly welcome the new laws that are put in place to protect us and destroy our civil liberties. We are failing to see how these new laws are greatly eroding our civil liberties and freedoms. The worst joke about the new civil liberty eroding laws is in relation to why Al Qaeda, Muslims, etc hate us. According to the US and UK Governments Al Qaeda, Muslims, etc hate our freedoms and that is why they attack us(lol). Those very same freedoms our Governments are slowly taking away from us with the new laws that are passed. Also remember the UK and USA Governments said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction again hyping the threat. It turns out after them killing a lot of civilian Iraqi people (people like you and me) Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction after all. Personally I think when Bush and Blair said Saddam Hussein had WMD they possibly allegedly maybe knew he never. Bush even said the problem from Saddam Hussein may come in the form of a mushroom cloud inside the USA. Bush and Blair may have possibly allegedly known there was no WMD and thus committed war crimes and could be done for treason. Strangely before he left office Tony Blair changed the law of treason from hanging to life imprisonment. Why? There is also a video on you tube where Bush is laughing about the fact they did not find any Innocent people in Iraq like you and me have died because of lies about Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction. UK and US soldiers have also died. Ordinary innocent Iraqi people are still dying daily, soldiers are still dying and Bush jokes about not finding any weapons of mass destruction? Wasn't the WMD the whole reason for invading Iraq Mr Bush? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI8gI8-QNck and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ . At its best it is a very poor taste joke by Bush.

2) Creating a secret prison system outside of the rule of law were torture takes place. The USA has that with Guantanamo Bay and the CIA's secret prisons abroad. I am sure the UK has secret prisons somewhere or just uses Guantanamo. At first the US Government denied Guantanamo existed and denied they use torture like waterboarding. We now know they have used waterboarding and Guantanamo does exist. We are told when suspected terrorists rights are ignored, international law is ignored, it's done in secrecy and torture is used to protect us. Hitler called his torture enhanced interrogation. It has been proven torture does not work as you can get anybody to admit to anything just to get you to stop torturing them. It may take a while but eventually everybody has a breaking point. Innocent people will admit to crimes they did not commit when under torture. It has been proven many times. Look at the Birmingham Six and the Guilford four. Innocent people tortured and convicted of terrorism. Also torture can make mentally stable people go insane. People who have been alleged to be Al Qaeda terrorists by our Government have claimed they were tortured. Some innocent people are wrongly being classed as terrorists and tortured.

3) Creating a paramilitary force not answerable to the people. The USA has that with the creation of the department of homeland security and with Blackwater. The Blackwater personnel allegedly were handpicked for doing the torture and are often from foreign countries that torture its own people. It has been reported Blackwater personnel fired on New Orleans civilians after Hurricane Katrina. Blackwater has presence all over the USA allegedly.

I don't think we have anything comparable in the UK that I know of in relation to the department of homeland security. The department of homeland security in the USA is brought in for things like domestic riots, Martial Law, etc. It was reported a while back the department of Homeland security bought 1.5 billion hollow round bullets. They denied it. Then later on they admitted they did buy 1.5 billion bullets and the reason is the more you buy the cheaper they are(lol). It has since been reported they bought another 0.5 billion bullets. If the department of homeland security is only ever used domestically, not in a war and never abroad why does it need 2 billion bullets? It has also been said the department of homeland security has bought a lot of other military stuff like armored vehicles, drones etc. It is also been claimed the American Government under Bush has already built concentration camps either for political dissidents or for when Martial law happens. The concentration camps are called Fema camps. There are videos of the Fema camps on you tube (they must be fake or made by conspiracy theorists lol). If you look at the videos you will see the barbed wire is placed to keep people in not to keep people out. You will also see lots of plastic coffins. As you will see in this video American journalist Glenn Beck tries to debunk the Fema camps. He says he had heard about the Fema camps and wanted to prove they did not exist and that it is crazy conspiracy theory. He then says he couldn't prove the Fema camps don't exist and they do exist. Strangely by the time he got on air later on that day he backtracked and said the Fema camps do not exist. Was he ordered to make a denial? I obviously don't know. Here is a very small video showing Glenn saying the Fema Camps do exist and then saying they do not exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbozFbrKPE It has been claimed our Fema camps have been built underground. Glenn Beck laughingly claims he does not want to say the Fema camps exist until he does some more investigation. I say laughingly because he never covered Fema camps again not even to say it is all nonsense.

4) Setting up a surveillance apparatus on its own citizens by creating new laws. Naive people will think I have nothing to hide so I don't care. It's well documented on how the USA and UK spies on its own people. It is done whether that surveillance is warranted or not. It's done an innocent people like you and me. They give these new laws fluffy names like the patriot act. The patriot act is over 300 pages long and takes away a lot of civil liberties. Although the patriot act was 300 pages long it was not printed until 3 AM and congress had to vote on it at 11 AM that same day. Also the patriot act was passed in Oct 2001 a mere few weeks after 9/11. They sure got those 300 pages of laws written quickly. The patriot act gives the US Government the right to do things like wiretapping your phone, look at your credit card statements, bank accounts, open your snail mail, look at what books you take from the library etc. The USA passed a lot of laws that erode civil liberties after 9/11 happened so did the UK after 7/7. Germany passed a lot of similar civil liberty eroding laws after the burning of the German parliament building the Reichstag. It has been claimed Hitler ordered the burning of the Reichstag to blame it on the Jews. The Jews were patsies. The burning was also used to allow the new civil liberty eroding laws to be passed in the name of protecting the German people. It has been claimed that the some rouge elements of the American government were either behind 9/11 or knew about it beforehand but allowed it to still happen so they could pass their civil liberty eroding laws in the name of protecting American people from terrorists. They also linked Saddam Hussein to 9/11 and got the excuse to invade Iraq. After the invasion of Iraq started they denied they linked Saddam to 9/11. It is claimed the decision to invade Iraq and plans drawn up was done in 1999 thus 2 years before 9/11. It is claimed America's patsies for 9/11 are Al Qaeda. It has been claimed rouge elements in our UK Government and secret services either were behind 7/7 or knew about it beforehand and allowed it to still happen so our civil liberty eroding laws could be passed in the name of protecting UK people from terrorists and to start our war on terror. It is claimed our patsies are Al Qaeda. Also why did our Government not pass such laws when we had the IRA bombing us a lot and for many years? Al Qaeda attack us once and we had a lot of civil liberties eroding laws passed? Nowadays lots of databases are linked. With the push of a button the UK can Government can find out things like who you associate with (facebook friends, telephone and mobile phone records, etc) , who you make phone calls to and when, how much money you earn, how much money you have in your bank account, what you do on the web, what you write in emails, etc etc.

Also all the new laws stink of the Hegelian dialectic and false flag attack. In a false flag attack you do something and blame somebody else. I believe in the days we used a lot of ships you would put another countries flag up on the ship mast, do your dastardly deed and let the country whose flag you put up take the blame. The earliest known false flag was when Nero burnt down Rome and then had the Christians blamed for it. So other examples of possible false flags may be you blow up 3 buildings in New York by flying 2 planes into them (3 buildings collapsed that day in New York only 2 got hit by a plane) then say Al Qaeda did it and the reason they did it is they hate our freedoms or you burn down the German parliament building and blame the Jews. If you search the web you will see a lot of false flags have been done over the years by various Governments.

With the Hegelian dialect you

A) Create the problem. So for example you blow up 3 buildings in New York by flying planes into 2 of them and blame some patsies named Al Qaeda or you blow up the German Reichstag parliament building and blame some patsies who are of Jewish religion . You also make sure you fail to mention the CIA created the Al Qaeda terrorists to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. You also Blame your patsies within hours of the New York buildings being blown up and without firm evidence. You also ignore the fact the Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden said "While I am happy the attacks happened in the USA it had nothing to do with me or my men". The American Government has admitted the CIA created Al Qaeda. I have seen a video where a US senator admits it in a news interview. I know other US politicians have also admitted Al Qaeda was first started by the CIA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Also if you watch a BBC documentary called Al Qaeda doesn't exist (it's on you tube in 3 parts ) you will see Osama bin Laden had a handful of men and not the world wide terror network we have been told he had. There is also a video on you tube by a CIA agent who also claims Al Qaeda doesn't exist as we know it. Also if you watch the power of nightmares by the BBC (also on you tube as 3 roughly 1 hour long videos) you will see the whole war on terrorism is designed to keep us in fear. Also you can keep the war on terror going for years. You just create new invisible enemies. During the cold war years they kept us in fear of a nuclear attack. Once the cold war ended they needed a new threat. They got that in the form of terrorism.

B) Then wait for the reaction. So for example keeping with 9/11 you wait for the people to cry in fear that the Government must do more to protect us from the terrorists or after the Reichstag burning wait for the German people to cry in fear something must be done about the Jews.

C) Then you come in with your pre-planned solution to the problem you created. So keeping with 9/11 a mere few weeks after 9/11 you pass a whole series of laws under one big law called the patriot act. Which is 300 hundred pages long, erodes lots of civil liberties, which you print at 3 AM and tell the people voting on it they have until 11 AM that same day to decide if they are going vote yes or no on it or you have the Reichstag burnt down then you pass a load of pre-planned civil liberty eroding laws in Germany in the name of protecting the German people.

5) Infiltrate citizens groups. This is actually against the law in the USA. I am not sure about the UK. It is claimed US police have spied on anti Iraq war protestors. It is also claimed they have used agent provocateurs to get protest groups to go from peaceful protest to starting trouble. I am sure we have also had agent provocateurs at our protests.

6) Detain and release ordinary citizens. This is an intimidation tactic to frighten the people. They will normally choose people like war protesters, anti Government protestors, nuclear weapons protestors etc. They are not given access to a lawyer or due process. They are also sometimes tortured. They also use other tactics like making it impossible for a certain person to get a job, police harassment, etc.

7) Target key individuals. Normally people like journalists who step out of line and print anti Government stuff, actors who speak out about the Government, musicians who speak out about the Government, politicians who speak out about the Government, etc. You make sure the masses know about it. You do things like destroying their career, making reporters afraid to report on certain things, making false allegations about them, set them up, etc. Goebbels was famous for this tactic in Nazi Germany.

8) Restrict the press. Tell them what they can and cannot print. Pass laws restricting the press. We do it with our D notices. For example remember all the teenagers killing themselves in Bridgewater Wales? I think the press was told to stop reporting on it when it got to about 13 teenagers. The Government put a D notice on it. It is alleged over 40 teenagers killed themselves before it finally stopped. Now you could argue is was a good idea to stop reporting on it as it may have been causing copycat suicides. I wonder why (allegedly) over 40 kids from one small place committed suicide? That is not my point. My point is the UK Government has a legal way to stop the press printing news it does not want printed by putting a D notice on it. So let's say our press want to print about evidence they found that the UK Government is using torture. The Government just says it uses torture to stop terrorists and it is in the interest of national security. They then say we have put a D notice on it so you cannot report about it.

9) Recast criticism as espionage and recast dissent as treason. You see this more and more. Laws are being used to silence dissent. Laws have been passed in the USA to silence dissent. Protest has been redefined as terrorism under American law. Protesters in America have been charged with terrorism. We have also seen how they are trying to stop protests in the UK. You can no longer protest outside of parliament. I think you cannot protest within a one mile radius of parliament. Protesters and conspiracy theorists are classed as political dissidents. I thought conspiracy theorists are nut jobs with tin foil hats who spout crazy stuff like 9/11 was an inside job? Why would you want to silence conspiracy theorists if what they say is stupid BS? In America they now have something called criminalised speech. If you say something like senator Jones has committed impeachable crimes and should be impeached whether that is true or not you can be done for criminalised speech. Nowadays you have to be very careful what you say publicly in America. Free speech is crumbling under the new laws passed. People in the USA who have uploaded anti Government stuff on you tube have been visited by the FBI and interrogated. Interrogated for criticising the Government that the US people elected?

10) Subvert the rule of law and ignore existing laws. In 2008 President Bush passed a law to allow the creation of the American union. It will be like our European union and consist of American, Canada, and Mexico. Test runs of the currency for the American union called the Amero has been done and you can see examples the currency if you search the web. So what if George Bush passed a law allowing the creation of the American union? Well he did it without approval. He did not put it to the American people or congress to get their opinion or say so he just passed the law like a dictator would. It was quite an important law he passed. He had no authority legally to do so even if he was the President at the time. In the US attorney generals scandal the US Government had secret talks. They US Government was going to remove the all attorney generals and replace them all (with pro Government attorneys?). In Nazi Germany in 1933 in 1 month Goebbels purged all the Attorneys and judges and replaced them with his own people. Both Bush and Obama have passed laws without putting it to vote in congress. Both Bush and Obama have ignored existing laws. Some claim the US government is going to bring in Martial Law. They will allegedly use foreign United Nation soldiers to do it. It is alleged around 1 million United nations soldiers are in America at any one time and they will be used for the martial law. Personally I don't see how the American Government can create/engineer the excuse to bring in Martial Law. I do know it has been alleged US army Generals have been asked "If it was deemed necessary would you fire on US citizens?". It has been alleged those Generals who said no have been replaced. Obama passed a law allowing military drones to be used on US citizens inside the USA and abroad. He refuses to say if he will ever use that law. After the recent Boston bombings Martial Law was put in place in Boston for a while.

As you will see the 10 steps to fascism can be applied to the UK and USA to varying degrees. What Naomi also says is that once the 10 steps to fascism is achieved history shows it always gets used against the people. The Government always turns on its own people. Innocent people like you and me get sent to these secret prisons, innocent people like you and me get tortured, innocent people like you and me get our phones calls listened to whether we are guilty of anything or not, innocent people like you and me have our bank accounts looked at, etc.

Naomi said since writing the book and doing the video at airports she gets a lot more security checks. She also noticed her boarding passes would always has a SSSS on them. The SSSS meant she was a high security risk. She kept asking why she was getting so much security done on her. One day a TSA agent told her she was on the watch list. How was Hitler able to round up people so quickly? He had a list of people to watch/get. Apparently 1 million people are on the America watch list already. Does America have 1 million terrorists? All closing societies have a watch list. The British Government will have a watch list. How many Government protestors, conspiracy theorists, war protestors etc are on that watch list?

Now I am sure some of you will say this is tin foil hat nonsense. I am sure if the internet was available in 1930 and this was repeated in Germany at the time German people who repeated it would be called stupid, tin foil hatter etc. Look at some of the laws the UK and USA have passed in the name of protecting us from terrorism. In the USA under the patriot act if you are labelled a terrorist the Government can take you away, does not have to tell anybody they have done so, and you do not have the right to a lawyer thus you do not have the right to fair and due process. Their description of a terrorist is very broad. For example if you are caught smoking a joint the Government has the right to label you a terrorist. Frightening stuff. We are all being spied on whether we are guilty of something or not. That is not right.

Also according to Mussolini the definition of Fascism is the merger of corporate and state. As you know Mussolini knew a thing or two about Fascism. The American Government merged corporate and state with Obama's too big to fail. The US Government bailed out banks, car manufacturers etc. Obama said these companies were too big to just let them fail. Under capitalism there is no such thing as too big to fail. Those companies should have been allowed to fail. They should not have been bailed out with public money. The banks created the financial problems then got bailed out with our money. They have been going into work and treating it like a casino. They don't care because whether they lose or make money they still have a job and still get massive bonuses. The bankers should be tried in the courts. It is said by some American senators that they were warned by the bankers one Friday if they did not pass the bill to bail out the banks when the markets re-opened on Monday the sky would fall, the market would drop 2 or 3 thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand more the next day and continue dropping daily. Some senators were also told if they did not pass the banker bailout bill that it would also result in Martial Law being brought in America. I call that threats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_as_iShG7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLbWau3rsag

I am sure people will say I am ranting, I am a stupid conspiracy theorist etc. I just pray those who say or think that are right and all this is just conspiracy BS. I pray that one day our Government does not turn on us. I pray one day people like you and me are not getting tortured for criticising the Government. I pray one day people like you and me are not getting tortured for protesting. History shows us many countries have gone from being free and open to having a tyrannical Government that turns on its own people.

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security." Benjamin Franklin


"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey, he is obligated to do so" Thomas Jefferson


"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson


"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" Thomas Jefferson


"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me." UNKNOWN


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


"The Government is not the solution to our problems , The Government is the problem" Ronald Reagan


"The people should not fear the government for it is the government who should fear the people" Unknown


"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein


"Schools manufacture people who think that they're smart but they're not." Robert Kiyosaki


"Education is what you learn after you leave School" Robert Kiyosaki


"‏Schools were designed to create employees for the big corporations." Robert Kiyosaki


“True education makes you feel stupid. It makes you realize you have so much more to learn.” Robert Kiyosaki


"There's the rich, the poor, and the tax payers...also known as the working class." Robert Kiyosaki ‏


"If you expect the government to solve your problems, you have a problem." Robert Kiyosaki ‏
 
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ennogs said:
This.

I get frightened by people who say I have nothing to hide so I don't care if they survail me. That is not the point. Why should your emails, phone calls, faxes, web searches etc be stored and shifted through? As you say you have nothing to hide. You have nothing to hide also means you have done nothing wrong. As you have done nothing wrong you should be left alone free of somebody shifting through your emails, telephone calls, web habits, etc. History has shown us when things like this get started as a way of protecting its population (they spy on us to stop terrorism) it soon gets used against its own population and not in a nice way.

I will put my tin foil hat on for this as I am sure somebody will think it or say it. I watched a video called "The end of America" by an American author named Naomi Wolf. It's based on her book of the same name. As the video is available on you tube she must be spouting nonsense and she is a feminists so she must be crazy or something as well lol. I mean come on a you tube video with credible intelligent information? Are you kidding me? You tube is the Internet version of you have been framed and also has dumb Russia today propaganda videos. Somebody must have rubbed out the tin foil hat Naomi was wearing before uploading the video.

Anyway Naomi says in the video her mentor is an old Jewish woman. When certain laws where being passed and certain things were being done in America post 9/11 each time something new happened she would say to Naomi that happened in Germany. Basically her mentor was trying to say to Naomi she thought something was wrong with the USA and it reminded her of what slowly happened 1930's Germany. At first Naomi wasn't really paying much attention as she thought her mentor was spouting crazy extremist nonsense. Then one day she went to visit her mentor. Her mentor gave her a pile of history books and told her to read them. After reading them Naomi became deeply concerned with what is currently happening in the USA. After doing further research Naomi said she came to the conclusion there is a blueprint to closing down a formally free and open society. People like Stalin, Hitler, Marx, Mussolini, etc all followed the blueprint. According to Naomi there are 10 steps that lead up to the creation of a Fascist Government. The 10 steps are

1) Hyping an internal or external threat. Well the USA and UK has that one in terrorism, Al Qaeda, etc. The USA and UK has hyped both the internal and external threat. 9/11 was used to create the war on terror and pass all the anti terror laws in the USA in the name of protecting the US people. 7/7 was used to create our war on terror and pass all the anti terror laws in the name of protecting the UK people. The actual real odds of being killed by a terrorist in the USA or UK are pretty minimal. You have more chance of being hit by bus or being struck by lightning. The last attack in the UK was 2005. The war on terror may be real but it is a hyped threat. They even used colour codes for how hyped the threat is. Hitler said the Jews were the threat. The USA and UK say Al Qaeda is the threat. They keep us in fear of another terrorist attack so we openly welcome the new laws that are put in place to protect us. We are failing to see how these new laws are greatly eroding our civil liberties and freedoms. The worst joke about the new civil liberty eroding laws is in relation to why Al Qaeda, Muslims, etc hate us. According to the US and UK Governments Al Qaeda, Muslims, etc hate our freedoms and that is why they attack us(lol). Those very same freedoms our Governments are slowly taking away from us with the new laws that are passed. Also remember the UK and USA Governments said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction again hyping the threat. It turns out after them killing something between 1 and 2 million civilian Iraqi people (people like you and me) Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction after all. Personally I think when Bush and Blair said Saddam Hussein had WMD they possibly allegedly maybe knew he never. Bush even said the problem from Saddam Hussein may come in the form of a mushroom cloud inside the USA. Bush and Blair may have possibly allegedly known there was no WMD and thus committed war crimes and could be done for treason. Strangely before he left office Tony Blair changed the law of treason from hanging to life imprisonment. Why? There is also a video on you tube where Bush is laughing about the fact they did not find any WMD. 1 - 2 million innocent people in Iraq like you and me have died because of lies about Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction. UK and US soldiers have also died. Ordinary innocent Iraqi people are still dying daily, soldiers are still dying and Bush jokes about not finding any weapons of mass destruction? Wasn't the WMD the whole reason for invading Iraq Mr Bush? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI8gI8-QNck and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ . At its best it is a very poor taste joke by Bush.

2) Creating a secret prison system outside of the rule of law were torture takes place. The USA has that with Guantanamo Bay and the CIA's secret prisons abroad. I am sure the UK has secret prisons somewhere or just uses Guantanamo. At first the US Government denied Guantanamo existed and denied they use torture like waterboarding. We now know they have used waterboarding and Guantanamo does exist. We are told suspected terrorists rights are ignored, international law is ignored, it's done in secrecy and torture is used to protect us. Hitler called his torture enhanced interrogation. It has been proven torture does not work as you can get anybody to admit to anything just to get you to stop torturing them. It may take a while but eventually everybody has a breaking point. Innocent people will admit to crimes they did not commit when under torture. It has been proven many times. Look at the Birmingham Six and the Guilford four. Innocent people tortured and convicted of terrorism. Also torture can make mentally stable people go insane. People who have been alleged to be Al Qaeda terrorists by our Government have claimed they were tortured. Some innocent people are wrongly being classed as terrorists and tortured.

3) Creating a paramilitary force not answerable to the people. The USA has that with the creation of the department of homeland security and with Blackwater. The Blackwater personnel allegedly were handpicked for doing the torture and are often from foreign countries that torture its own people. It has been reported Blackwater personnel fired on New Orleans civilians after Hurricane Katrina. Blackwater has presence all over the USA allegedly.

I don't think we have anything comparable in the UK that I know of in relation to the department of homeland security. The department of homeland security in the USA is brought in for things like domestic riots, Martial Law, etc. It was reported a while back the department of Homeland security bought 1.5 billion hollow round bullets. They denied it. Then later on they admitted they did buy 1.5 billion bullets and the reason is the more you buy the cheaper they are(lol). It has since been reported they bought another 0.5 billion bullets. If the department of homeland security is only ever used domestically, not in a war and never abroad why does it need 2 billion bullets? It has also been said the department of homeland security has bought a lot of other military stuff like armoured vehicles, drones etc. It is also been claimed the American Government under Bush has already built concentration camps either for political dissidents or for when Martial law happens. The concentration camps are called Fema camps. There are videos of the Fema camps on you tube (they must be fake or made by conspiracy theorists lol). If you look at the videos you will see the barbed wire is placed to keep people in not to keep people out. You will also see lots of plastic coffins. As you will see in this video American journalist Glenn Beck tries to debunk the Fema camps. He says he had heard about the Fema camps and wanted to prove they did not exist and that it is crazy conspiracy theory. He then says he couldn't prove the Fema camps don't exist and they do exist. Strangely by the time he got on air later on that day he backtracked and said the Fema camps do not exist. Was he ordered to make a denial? I obviously don't know. Here is a very small video showing Glenn saying the Fema Camps do exist and then saying they do not exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbozFbrKPE It has been claimed our Fema camps have been built underground. Glenn Beck laughingly claims he does not want to say the Fema camps exist until he does some more investigation. I say laughingly because he never covered Fema camps again not even to say it is all nonsense.

4) Setting up a surveillance apparatus on its own citizens by creating new laws. Naive people will think I have nothing to hide so I don't care. It's well documented on how the USA and UK spies on its own people. It is done whether that surveillance is warranted or not. It's done an innocent people like you and me. They give these new laws fluffy names like the patriot act. The patriot act is over 300 pages long and takes away a lot of civil liberties. Although the patriot act was 300 pages long it was not printed until 3 AM and congress had to vote on it at 11 AM that same day. Also the patriot act was passed in Oct 2001 a mere few weeks after 9/11. They sure got those 300 pages of laws written quickly. The patriot act gives the US Government the right to do things like wiretapping your phone, look at your credit card statements, bank accounts, open your snail mail, look at what books you take from the library etc. The USA passed a lot of laws that erode civil liberties after 9/11 happened so did the UK after 7/7. Germany passed a lot of similar civil liberty eroding laws after the burning of the German parliament the Reichstag. It has been claimed Hitler ordered the burning of the Reichstag to blame it on the Jews. The Jews were patsies. The burning was also used to allow the new civil liberty eroding laws to be passed in the name of protecting the German people. It has been claimed that the some rouge elements of the American government were either behind 9/11 or knew about it beforehand but allowed it to still happen so they could pass their civil liberty eroding laws in the name of protecting American people from terrorists. They also linked Saddam Hussein to 9/11 and got the excuse to invade Iraq. After the invasion of Iraq started they denied they linked Saddam to 9/11. It is claimed the decision to invade Iraq and plans drawn up was done in 1999 thus 2 years before 9/11. It is claimed America's patsies for 9/11 are Al Qaeda. It has been claimed rouge elements in our UK Government and secret services either were behind 7/7 or knew about it beforehand and allowed it to still happen so our civil liberty eroding laws could be passed in the name of protecting UK people from terrorists and to start our war on terror. It is claimed our patsies are Al Qaeda. Also why did our Government not pass such laws when we had the IRA bombing us a lot and for many years? Al Qaeda attack us once and we had a lot of civil liberties eroding laws passed? Nowadays lots of databases are linked. With the push of a button the UK can Government can find out things like who you associate with (facebook friends, telephone and mobile phone records, etc) , who you make phone calls to and when, how much money you earn, how much money you have in your bank account, what you do on the web, what you write in emails, etc etc.

Also all the new laws stink of the Hegelian dialectic and false flag attack. In a false flag attack you do something and blame somebody else. I believe in the days we used a lot of ships you would put another countries flag up on the ship mast, do your dastardly deed and let the country whose flag you put up take the blame. The earliest known false flag was when Nero burnt down Rome and then had the Christians blamed for it. So other examples of possible false flags may be you blow up 3 buildings in New York by flying 2 planes into them (3 buildings collapsed that day in New York only 2 got hit by a plane) then say Al Qaeda did it and the reason they did it is they hate our freedoms or you burn down the German parliament building and blame the Jews. If you search the web you will see a lot of false flags have been done over the years by various Governments.

With the Hegelian dialect you

A) Create the problem. So for example you blow up 3 buildings in New York by flying planes into 2 of them and blame some patsies named Al Qaeda or you blow up the German Reichstag parliament building and blame some patsies who are of Jewish religion . You also make sure you fail to mention the CIA created the Al Qaeda terrorists to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. You also Blame your patsies within hours of the New York buildings being blown up and without firm evidence. You also ignore the fact the Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden said "While I am happy the attacks happened in the USA it had nothing to do with me or my men". The American Government has admitted the CIA created Al Qaeda. I have seen a video where a US senator admits it in a news interview. I know other US politicians have also admitted Al Qaeda was first started by the CIA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Also if you watch a BBC documentary called Al Qaeda doesn't exist (it's on you tube in 3 parts ) you will see Osama bin Laden had a handful of men and not the world wide terror network we have been told he had. There is also a video on you tube by a CIA agent who also claims Al Qaeda doesn't exist as we know it. Also if you watch the power of nightmares by the BBC (also on you tube as 3 roughly 1 hour long videos) you will see the whole war on terrorism is designed to keep us in fear. Also you can keep the war on terror going for years. You just create new invisible enemies. During the cold war years they kept us in fear of a nuclear attack. Once the cold war ended they needed a new threat. They got that in the form of terrorism.

B) Then wait for the reaction. So for example keeping with 9/11 you wait for the people to cry in fear that the Government must do more to protect us from the terrorists or after the Reichstag burning wait for the German people to cry in fear something must be done about the Jews.

C) Then you come in with your pre-planned solution to the problem you created. So keeping with 9/11 a mere few weeks after 9/11 you pass a whole series of laws under one big law called the patriot act. Which is 300 hundred pages long, erodes lots of civil liberties, which you print at 3 AM and tell the people voting on it they have until 11 AM that same day to decide if they are going vote yes or no on it or you have the Reichstag burnt down then you pass a load of pre-planned civil liberty eroding laws in Germany in the name of protecting the German people.

5) Infiltrate citizens groups. This is actually against the law in the USA. I am not sure about the UK. It is claimed US police have spied on anti Iraq war protestors. It is also claimed they have used agent provocateurs to get protest groups to go from peaceful protest to starting trouble. I am sure we have also had agent provocateurs at our protests.

6) Detain and release ordinary citizens. This is an intimidation tactic to frighten the people. They will normally choose people like war protesters, anti Government protestors, nuclear weapons protestors etc. They are not given access to a lawyer or due process. They are also sometimes tortured. They also use other tactics like making it impossible for a certain person to get a job, police harassment, etc.

7) Target key individuals. Normally people like journalists who step out of line and print anti Government stuff, actors who speak out about the Government, musicians who speak out about the Government, politicians who speak out about the Government, etc. You make sure the masses know about it. You do things like destroying their career, making reporters afraid to report on certain things, making false allegations about them, set them up, etc. Goebbels was famous for this tactic in Nazi Germany.

8) Restrict the press. Tell them what they can and cannot print. Pass laws restricting the press. We do it with our D notices. For example remember all the teenagers killing themselves in Bridgewater Wales? I think the press was told to stop reporting on it when it got to about 13 teenagers. The Government put a D notice on it. It is alleged over 40 teenagers killed themselves before it finally stopped. Now you could argue is was a good idea to stop reporting on it as it may have been causing copycat suicides. I wonder why (allegedly) over 40 kids from one small place committed suicide? That is not my point. My point is the UK Government has a legal way to stop the press printing news it does not want printed by putting a D notice on it. So let's say our press want to print about evidence they found that the UK Government is using torture. The Government just says it uses torture to stop terrorists and it is in the interest of national security. They then say we have put a D notice on it so you cannot report about it.

9) Recast criticism as espionage and recast dissent as treason. You see this more and more. Laws are being used to silence dissent. Laws have been passed in the USA to silence dissent. Protest has been redefined as terrorism under American law. Protesters in America have been charged with terrorism. We have also seen how they are trying to stop protests in the UK. You can no longer protest outside of parliament. I think you cannot protest within a one mile radius of parliament. Protesters and conspiracy theorists are classed as political dissidents. I thought conspiracy theorists are nut jobs with tin foil hats who spout crazy stuff like 9/11 was an inside job? Why would you want to silence conspiracy theorists if what they say is stupid BS? In America they now have something called criminalised speech. If you say something like senator Jones has committed impeachable crimes and should be impeached whether that is true or not you can be done for criminalised speech. Nowadays you have to be very careful what you say publicly in America. Free speech is crumbling under the new laws passed. People in the USA who have uploaded anti Government stuff on you tube have been visited by the FBI and interrogated. Interrogated for criticising the Government that the US people elected?

10) Subvert the rule of law and ignore existing laws. In 2008 President Bush passed a law to allow the creation of the American union. It will be like our European union and consist of American, Canada, and Mexico. Test runs of the currency for the American union called the Amero has been done and you can see examples the currency if you search the web. So what if George Bush passed a law allowing the creation of the American union? Well he did it without approval. He did not put it to the American people or congress to get their opinion or say so he just passed the law like a dictator would. It was quite an important law he passed. He had no authority legally to do so even if he was the President at the time. In the US attorney generals scandal the US Government has secret talks. They US Government was going to remove the all attorney generals and replace them all (with pro Government attorneys?). In Nazi Germany in 1933 in 1 month Goebbels purged all the Attorneys and judges and replaced them with his own people. Both Bush and Obama have passed laws without putting it to vote in congress. Both Bush and Obama have ignored existing laws. Some claim the US government is going to bring in Martial Law. They will allegedly use foreign United Nation soldiers to do it. It is alleged around 1 million United nations soldiers are in America at any one time and they will be used for the martial law. Personally I don't see how the American Government can create/engineer the excuse to bring in Martial Law. I do know it has been alleged US army Generals have been asked "If it was deemed necessary would you fire on US citizens?". It has been alleged those Generals who said no have been replaced. Obama passed a law allowing military drones to be used on US citizens inside the USA and abroad. He refuses to say if he will ever use that law. After the recent Boston bombings Martial Law was put in place for a while.

As you will see the 10 steps to fascism can be applied to the UK and USA to varying degrees. What Naomi also says is that once the 10 steps to fascism is achieved history shows it always gets used against the people. The Government always turns on its own people. Innocent people like you and me get sent to these secret prisons, innocent people like you and me get tortured, innocent people like you and me get our phones calls listened to whether we are guilty of anything or not, innocent people like you and me have our bank accounts looked at, etc.

Naomi said since writing the book and doing the video at airports she gets a lot more security checks. She also noticed her boarding passes would always has a SSSS on them. The SSSS meant she was a high security risk. She kept asking why she was getting so much security done on her. One day a TSA agent told her she was on the watch list. How was Hitler able to round up people so quickly? He had a list of people to watch/get. Apparently 1 million people are on the America watch list already. Does America have 1 million terrorists? All closing societies have a watch list. The British Government will have a watch list. How many Government protestors, conspiracy theorists, war protestors etc are on that watch list?

Now I am sure some of you will say this is tin foil hat nonsense. I am sure if the internet was available in 1930 and this was repeated in Germany at the time German people who repeated it would be called stupid, tin foil hatter etc. Look at some of the laws the UK and USA have passed in the name of protecting us from terrorism. In the USA under the patriot act if you are labelled a terrorist the Government can take you away, does not have to tell anybody they have done so, and you do not have the right to a lawyer thus you do not have the right to fair and due process. Their description of a terrorist is very broad. For example if you are caught smoking a joint the Government has the right to label you a terrorist. Frightening stuff. We are all being spied on whether we are guilty of something or not. That is not right.

Also according to Mussolini the definition of Fascism is the merger of corporate and state. As you know Mussolini knew a thing or two about Fascism. The American Government merged corporate and state with Obama's too big to fail. The US Government bailed out banks, car manufacturers etc. Obama said these companies were too big to just let them fail. Under capitalism there is no such thing as too big to fail. Those companies should have been allowed to fail. They should not have been bailed out with public money. The banks created the financial problems then got bailed out with our money. They have been going into work and treating it like a casino. They don't care because whether they lose or make money they still have a job and still get massive bonuses. The bankers should be tried in the courts. It is said by some American senators that they were warned by the bankers one Friday if they did not pass the bill to bail out the banks when the markets re-opened on Monday the sky would fall, the market would drop 2 or 3 thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand more the next day and continue dropping daily. Some senators were also told if they did not pass the banker bailout bill that it would also result in Martial Law being brought in America. I call that threats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_as_iShG7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLbWau3rsag

I am sure people will say I am ranting, I am a stupid conspiracy theorist etc. I just pray those who say or think that are right and all this is just conspiracy BS. I pray that one day our Government does not turn on us. I pray one day people like you and me are not getting tortured for criticising the Government. I pray one day people like you and me are not getting tortured for protesting. History shows us many countries have gone from being free and open to having a tyrannical Government that turns on its own people.

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security." Benjamin Franklin


"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey, he is obligated to do so" Thomas Jefferson


"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson


"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" Thomas Jefferson


"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me." UNKNOWN


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


"The Government is not the solution to our problems , The Government is the problem" Ronald Reagan


"The people should not fear the government for it is the government who should fear the people" Unknown


"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein


"Schools manufacture people who think that they're smart but they're not." Robert Kiyosaki


"Education is what you learn after you leave School" Robert Kiyosaki


"‏Schools were designed to create employees for the big corporations." Robert Kiyosaki


“True education makes you feel stupid. It makes you realize you have so much more to learn.” Robert Kiyosaki


"There's the rich, the poor, and the tax payers...also known as the working class." Robert Kiyosaki ‏


"If you expect the government to solve your problems, you have a problem." Robert Kiyosaki ‏
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Long time reader. First time poster.

I joined just to put a lol on this.

I am surprised I beat the usual GLP vultures to laugh at this.
 
bhughes850 said:
Long time reader. First time poster.

I joined just to put a lol on this.

I am surprised I beat the usual GLP vultures to laugh at this.
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You NSA bro?

90% of his post is factually correct. The other 10% I strongly believe. Therefore I can conclude you must be NSA trying to devalue his frankly brilliant post.
 
ennogs said:
Oh the irony of your post. You call other people vultures yet do the same thing as they do?
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gillywibble said:
Superb post ennogs. There is only one bit I disagree with:-



I don't think the war on terror is real, at all.
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I also do not think the war on terror is real. The war on terror is designed to keep us in fear. Watch the BBC documentary "The power of nightmares". Also you have to have a perceived enemy to justify all the money you spend on weapons. I thought if I said that the war on terror is not real people would just think this was another conspiracy theory nonsense post.

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I will get the hang of this multi quote one day.
 
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http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...g-edward-snowden-back-to-us-as-gift-to-trump/

Russia considering sending Snowden back to the US as a 'gesture of goodwill towards Trump'. Now it's almost certainly just maskirovka and there's no way Russia will do this without massive strings attached, interesting nonetheless. In Dante's Inferno the ninth level of hell was reserved for traitors for there are few greater crimes.
 
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