1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So, Corbyn Loves China. Interesting...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Orionaut, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,687

    That's why they have changed tact, and are attempting to undermine faith in the truth and democracy itself.
     
  2. adolf hamster

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2012

    Posts: 7,220

    indeed, nothings perfect, communism fails to account for the fact that power corrupts, capitalism fails to account that there always needs to be some poor sod at the bottom of the pile and democracy fails to account for the fact that giving power to people who want power isn't the best idea.

    although until we invent an ai capable of making fair and reasonable decisions for all of us then i reckon we're stuck as we are.
     
  3. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,949

    Problem is it always falls down due to trying to brute force past human nature even if the leaders themselves don't become corrupt and almost always ends up going towards authoritarianism or totalitarianism to try and keep it working.
     
  4. Tunney

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 11, 2004

    Posts: 14,549

    Location: London

    I’ve seen some comparisons between Communist China and capitalist India. Over the last 40 years, China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of extreme poverty while India’s numbers have barely changed.

    The CCP is so clearly a terrible regime (especially if you’re not Han) but they’ve achieved something incredible.

    At what price to freedom and human rights is tackling extreme poverty worth?
     
  5. aardvark

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 2, 2005

    Posts: 7,975

    Location: leeds

    exactly - all idealogical systems try to change basic human psychology and it has never worked and it never will.
     
  6. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,687

    Still waiting for the OP to link to the context of the thread title.
     
  7. MikeTheNative

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 8,056

    Location: South Wales

    Guy's they were called National SOCIALIST so they must be lefties.
     
  8. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005

    Posts: 8,481

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    I think the difference that we struggle to understand between China and democracies is that China is focused very much on the greater good rather than individuals.
    That's why they have the worlds largest high speed rail network, that's why they will build roads around someones house if they refuse to move, they will deliver benefit to thousands of people by building that road and inconvenience one family.
     
  9. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,687

    So China are like Vulcans? :)
     
  10. Sliver

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 10,827

    Location: Darlington

    Of course they are, stop waffling nonsense, it's tiresome.

    The People's Republic of China receives continual coverage in the popular press of its emerging superpower status,[11][12] and has been identified as a rising or emerging economic growth and military superpower by academics and other experts. In fact, the "rise of China" has been named the top news story of the 21st century by the Global Language Monitor, as measured by number of appearances in the global print and electronic media, on the Internet and blogosphere, and in social media.[13][14][15][16][17] The term "Second Superpower" has been applied by scholars to the possibility that the People's Republic of China could emerge with global power and influence on par with the United States.[18] The potential for the two countries to form stronger relations to address global issues is sometimes referred to as the Group of Two.

    Source (not that you'll take any notice, sigh) = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpowers
     
  11. LabR@t

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 30, 2005

    Posts: 9,454

    You answered your own question
     
  12. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 10,770

    Any chance of a link to this story?

    I only ask because it would be interesting to see what Jeremy Corbyn is alleged actually to have said, what the context was and who made the allegation.
     
  13. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,774

    Location: Plymouth

    Corbyn loving a country with the terrible human rights record that always accompany his preferred economic approach, this is not a suprise, he is on record enough doing this time and time again.
     
  14. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,218

    Location: Notts

    Tiresome? It's my first post in the thread! :D

    There's no doubt that they're in the ascendancy, but they aren't going to become the number one power for a very long time if ever, and achieving supremacy in the military domain will be even harder. The US have something like 800 bases in around 70 countries. The Chinese have got one base overseas.

    Look at the US nuclear arsenal- around 4,000 to 5,000 active warheads deployable via a triad of delivery mechanisms- Missiles, planes (B52, B-1B, B-2, jets) and subs (14 Ohio Class). 10 Nimitz class supercarriers, active fifth-gen fighters, the list goes on. They effectively outspend the rest of the world put together on defence. Their forces are overwhelmingly the largest and most technologically advanced.

    Their military-industrial complex is just vast, look at the contractors they can call up- Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics, GE, Honeywell, and so on. Defence spending with Lockheed alone is bigger than the entire economies of Jordan, Serbia or Bolivia!

    They're also still very much wedded to the idea of being the world's policeman.

    So, some perspective is required before getting carried away with China's advance.
     
  15. rubberduck

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 8, 2004

    Posts: 4,025

    Mao's great leap forward almost certainly saved lives in the long run. It didn't get off to the best of starts though admittedly.
     
  16. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,949

    I don't think some people realise that just one US supercarrier group at full strength would be capable of taking on many countries on its own - a few of them would give China a tough time despite the numerical differences - though I think the US would be handicapped a bit by their own hubris being far too used to fighting against enemy that don't have a chance of fighting them on equal terms and reliance on systems that in reality haven't been as tested as they should, etc. and of late a lot of poor discipline and poor command.
     
  17. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,774

    Location: Plymouth

    I'm pretty sure it did not.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

    Even the lowest estimate puts the death toll at 23 million people. The most recent puts it at 55 million dead people.

    There is no justification for the death tolls involved in communism.
     
  18. rubberduck

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 8, 2004

    Posts: 4,025

    Have spoken to some Chinese people on the matter and the reckon it has really helped.
     
  19. Sliver

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 10,827

    Location: Darlington

    Yeah and I wish it was your last as reading this fiction is dull. Do some empirical research then get back to me.
     
  20. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,949

    Your own evidence says nothing about them eclipsing the US only that they are a rising super power that might one day approach something close to the US and while the US's fortunes long term might not be so rosy its unlikely they will fall so badly that China will eclipse them.

    EDIT: Did you overlook that some of the stuff you've linked to is talking about supplanting the US regionally i.e. making them second place in Asia behind the US rather than globally?