So I tried to change a tap...

Quartz

Quartz

Quartz

Soldato
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Aberdeen
No, no floods of water, no emergency plumber callout. Sorry. But I would appreciate the advice of a plumber.

The kitchen sink tap in my kitchen prevents the kitchen window from opening fully (it opens inwards). Imagine my joy when I found that you can now get folding taps.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B081HG7TSN

So I ordered one and it duly arrived. So I set to work this afternoon. No problems turning the water off, clearing the area, etc. But when it came to remove the old tap the securing mechanism is jammed *right behind* the copper pipes. So I couldn't undo it without possibly damaging the copper pipes. Grrr... Whoever put it in was an utter idiot. So I put everything back together and stopped for a think and a cup of tea.

Hopefully I'll be able to take the whole sink off and attack it directly from behind. Getting the current tap out without breaking any of the copper pipe attached to it is going to be interesting - I don't want to break anything in case the hose on the new tap isn't quite long enough - it looks to be close. But that's for when I have daylight.

Is my plan good? And what should I use to extend the hoses or the existing pipes? Are these appropriate for the latter:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tesla-bs...ression-rigid-trv-extension-piece-100mm/599hf

(Yes, I know that I'm not working with a radiator, but it's still copper pipes.)

Here's a pic after I put everything back together

W8uRV3o.jpg

You can just see the copper piping to the tap on the top left. The level of the join of the pipes is just above the blue tab visible in the U bend.
 
How are the taps joined to the copper? Would a proper tap wrench (they’re extendable) allow you the do it??

Alternatively I’d just turn water off. Cut the pipes at a suitable height and then shove some temporary push fit caps on there and buy some flexi tap tails and connect that way?

As to getting the old tap off… hmm!

Can you get a photo looking up from the bottom of the cabinet?
 
As above, tap wrench/basin wrench. I did a lot of swearing before I knew these existed:

www.screwfix.com

Rothenberger 7.0225 Telescopic Basin Wrench 3/8"-1 1/4" - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Chrome-plated spring-loaded steel basin wrench with self-locating self-locking hook. Fits 3/8" (9mm) to 1¼" (32mm). 278-455mm length, adjustable in 60mm steps. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.
www.screwfix.com www.screwfix.com
 
LuckyBenski said:
As above, tap wrench/basin wrench.
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I have a tap wrench, though not telescopic. I can't get it onto the fitting behind the pipes because it's tight against them and I have no visibility.

Coolasmoo said:
You're thinking too hard about this.
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Quite possibly.

Coolasmoo said:
Just cut the copper tails. install new tap and connect with flexible hoses.
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I think I'd prefer the security of something that screws onto the tap's hoses and also onto the pipework.

itsallaboutyou said:
Can you get a photo looking up from the bottom of the cabinet?
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I've tried and not produced anything usable.

itsallaboutyou said:
How are the taps joined to the copper?
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The copper goes straight up into the tap, as best I can see. It's soldered segments all the way down to screw fittings at about the level of the blue tab (one above, one below).
 
Honestly - push fit stuff is miles better than it used to be.. any of the Hep 20 / JG speed fit flexi tails will do your job for you. Just deburr the pipe and it’s done!

Most new builds are push fit with plastic pipes afaik.

They have manifolds all over the gaff that are push fit. It’s really easy.
 
I would even go as far as to say that they way the good* push-fit connectors are done they are probably more secure than compression fittings and possibly even soldered. The reason being that all the push-fit connectors are designed to cope with some movement. I just think that weeping slow leaks are far less likely with them.

IMO good are SpeedFit or Hep 20, and even those metal push-fit which look like soldered are very good as I used those for extending some radiators.
 
Remove all the plastic so you can get to the copper. Unscrew the compression joints for the hot and cold and get them free of the rest of the piping. Remove the tap using a box spanner and pull the copper through the hole. If it doesn't fit, pipe-slice it until it does! Fit the new tap with tails in place. Take the old copper and cut it to the right size (if it's already too short then either make a new one or extend the old one or buy longer tails). Re-fit the copper, tightening the compression fittings. Fit the tails to the copper and tighten! All done.
 
Dalandius said:
What is the distance between the tap base and the top fitting on the pipes, if it less than 300mm you could just use some flexible tails.
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The included tap tails are 500mm and possibly not long enough. I've ordered a 1000mm set which should arrive tomorrow.

SpellowHouse said:
Remove the tap using a box spanner
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It's this bit where I failed. I have a box spanner but the retaining bolt is jammed right against the pipes so I couldn't get the spanner on. And because the tap is so close to the wall the range of motion is very limited. I gave the sink an experimental lift and it won't budge so taking that assembly off isn't happening. I may have to be destructive and remove the copper pipes first but I don't want to do so unless I have to.
 
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Quartz said:
The included tap tails are 500mm and possibly not long enough. I've ordered a 1000mm set which should arrive tomorrow.



It's this bit where I failed. I have a box spanner but the retaining bolt is jammed right against the pipes so I couldn't get the spanner on. And because the tap is so close to the wall the range of motion is very limited. I gave the sink an experimental lift and it won't budge so taking that assembly off isn't happening. I may have to be destructive and remove the copper pipes first but I don't want to do so unless I have to.
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Unfortunately it's all been put in place with no thought to maintenance.

Many nuts have a flat head screwdriver slot, so you can undo them with a screwdriver instead of a box spanner. You need a mirror to see if yours has one. Failing that you could use a wire saw to cut the copper pipes off or perhaps a dremel with a cutting disk if you have one. Not easy, but....

Sinks have a few nuts and bolts holding them in place but often what ends up holding them more than anything is silicon sealant.
 
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Quartz said:
It's this bit where I failed. I have a box spanner but the retaining bolt is jammed right against the pipes so I couldn't get the spanner on. And because the tap is so close to the wall the range of motion is very limited. I gave the sink an experimental lift and it won't budge so taking that assembly off isn't happening. I may have to be destructive and remove the copper pipes first but I don't want to do so unless I have to.
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when i did ours i had to cut the pipes and remove the worksurface , the clamp at the bottom of the taps had had a slow leak for years and corroded the base of the fitting. had to grind the base of the taps off, to remove from the sink. also used new tails but extended ones with compression fit ends directly onto the pipes.
one thing i remember was the ends with the o rings were different size threads i think 8mm and 10mm were the choices got both from screwfix and took back ones i didnt use:).

oh and ours came with a plastic triangular piece that gave it extra support between the stainless sink and the tap nut, couldnt get it to fit ,but wish on hindsight i had tried harder because a few months later i notice the sink top does flex a little when turning the tap:(
 
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This is quite a simple job if you know what bits to buy and the right tools. You'll need a tap spanner/wrench set as noted above but also pipe cutters and an array of spanners/wrenches and the flexibility of a gymnast.

You'll need to cut the pipes as the copper goes directly into the tap, there is no other way to get them off.

It looks like your tap connectors are 3/8" according to the Amazon listing.

1. Cut the pipes at a suitable height so your new tails reach them, id cut them above the final elbow.
2. Remove the old tap
3. bang two of these onto where you cut the pipes *(https://www.toolstation.com/flat-faced-male-straight-isolating-valve/p38483)
4. fit new tap
5. screw the supplied tap tails on to the fittings installed at step 3

Job jobbed, expect it to take hours though. No doubt the old tap will be an absolute pain to get off without damaging anything else.

*Couldn't find a push fit fitting in 3/8" guise, only 1/2", they also do a right angle version. I like to use some jointing compound or LS-X on compression fittings to guarantee a leak free fit.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
This is quite a simple job
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Excellent!

b0rn2sk8 said:
You'll need a tap spanner/wrench set as noted above
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Got one of those! I've had a good feel around and it seems that the retaining bolt is hollow and I could possibly use an allen key to get the existing one off. That should save me from having to cut the copper tubes.

b0rn2sk8 said:
3. bang two of these onto where you cut the pipes *(https://www.toolstation.com/flat-faced-male-straight-isolating-valve/p38483)
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Not a problem as there are already isolating valves.
 
Quartz said:
Excellent!



Got one of those! I've had a good feel around and it seems that the retaining bolt is hollow and I could possibly use an allen key to get the existing one off. That should save me from having to cut the copper tubes.



Not a problem as there are already isolating valves.
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I linked the vavles above because you need something to take a 15mm pipe and have something to screw the supplied 3/8” flexi tails onto from the tap.

I couldn’t see an equivalent without the isolating valves, that said, they are only £2 so not exactly expensive either.

3/8” is a pretty uncommon size, they are normally 1/2”. If they were 1/2 inch you could have used a very simple push fit coupler that you screw the flexi hoses onto the end of but they are not.

I know someone else suggested buying new hoses but that is a waste of money when all you need is a £2 fitting.

It’s a simple job because you only need 2 x £2 compression fittings to fit the tap on the existing pipe work using the supplied hoses.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
This is quite a simple job if you know what bits to buy and the right tools. You'll need a tap spanner/wrench set as noted above but also pipe cutters and an array of spanners/wrenches and the flexibility of a gymnast.

You'll need to cut the pipes as the copper goes directly into the tap, there is no other way to get them off.

It looks like your tap connectors are 3/8" according to the Amazon listing.

1. Cut the pipes at a suitable height so your new tails reach them, id cut them above the final elbow.
2. Remove the old tap
3. bang two of these onto where you cut the pipes *(https://www.toolstation.com/flat-faced-male-straight-isolating-valve/p38483)
4. fit new tap
5. screw the supplied tap tails on to the fittings installed at step 3

Job jobbed, expect it to take hours though. No doubt the old tap will be an absolute pain to get off without damaging anything else.

*Couldn't find a push fit fitting in 3/8" guise, only 1/2", they also do a right angle version. I like to use some jointing compound or LS-X on compression fittings to guarantee a leak free fit.
Click to expand...
I believe the OP is saying that this bit is the hard part. I'd bet the tap was installed before the sink was put in place, so it's now a real PITA to get to the nut securing the tap to the sink.

I think my alternative method would be to cut the tap off from above with a mixture of reciprocating saw, angle grinding and drilling.
 
Bug One said:
I believe the OP is saying that this bit is the hard part. I'd bet the tap was installed before the sink was put in place, so it's now a real PITA to get to the nut securing the tap to the sink.

I think my alternative method would be to cut the tap off from above with a mixture of reciprocating saw, angle grinding and drilling.
Click to expand...

I said in my post to cut the copper pipes that go into the taps. Cutting the pipes gives you the access you need.

Copper is soft as anything and you’ll get through it easily with a junior hack saw in a few minutes. A few seconds if you have a suitable power tool like a dremil.

Where the copper goes into the tap base, it tapers and will be very thin.

It will probably be easier to lift the sink out to get the old tap off without damaging the sink but you need to first cut the pipes. The sink will only be held in with a couple of clips and a bit of silicone.
 
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