So, this post office palaver then

[Colonel_Klinck]

No all that is correct however the bill that is proposed will be a single use bill unable to set a precedent such that no court or future government of either main party could use it for another purpose.

The alternative is that the appeal court sits for months or years until every case is decided in law. The post office is not making this easy and rolling over admitting wrong doing.

All parties will no doubt contribute to the bill however it will be drafted under this government by the normal civil service drafters. However written all over it will be a clear intention of its purpose not to interfere with the seperation of powers which it will do just once for this specific purpose.

It is absolutely the fault of the post office management and their contractors Fujitsu UK that this step is necessary to bring an end to this long running saga.

Surely what the Post Office needs to do at this point is just say there is no case to answer for all these cases. Maybe there will be the odd 1 or 2 that actually is guilty of theft but that is acceptable to get this dealt with asap. From what I've read a lot of the people convicted want to go to court and the court to say they are innocent.

 

[Deleted member 68110]

Surely it would be more appropriate for the current head of the CPS to apologise for any failures on their part? I don’t hear you calling loudly for Starmers successor to apologise for the prosecutions on their watch? (not that it appears there were any, they like everyone else including the juries were done over by the Post Office with it’s dodgy ‘evidence’)

N111ck's a bit of a clown who fits facts to match his rickety worldview - not much point trying to get that leopard to change his spots.

 

[a1ex2001]

Well its getting messier for CPS so think you are right that more apologies are due and not just Starmer..

CPS involved in up to 99 Post Office prosecutions, leaked letter shows

Scale of possible Horizon cases outlined in document is much higher than 11 the service has confirmed it prosecuted

www.telegraph.co.uk

I’m still not really sure what you want them to apologise for? Would you be be happy with a Boris style sorry but not really sorry job or do you want hang wringing tears and begging?

It is clear to me from the evidence given so far that the issue here lies with the post office who should be immediately stripped of the ability to bring forward legal cases while a number of individuals should clearly be doing time for their parts in the process.

 

[Sinbad2000]

I’m still not really sure what you want them to apologise for? Would you be be happy with a Boris style sorry but not really sorry job or do you want hang wringing tears and begging?

It is clear to me from the evidence given so far that the issue here lies with the post office who should be immediately stripped of the ability to bring forward legal cases while a number of individuals should clearly be doing time for their parts in the process.

It's mad that any organisation can perform investigation and prosecution of crimes against itself. Such a massive conflict of interest.

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

It's mad that any organisation can perform investigation and prosecution of crimes against itself. Such a massive conflict of interest.

This definitely needs to change.

I had no idea that the post office had that much power and sounds like they well and truly abused it with these poor people.

 

[Hagar]

This definitely needs to change.

I had no idea that the post office had that much power and sounds like they well and truly abused it with these poor people.

There are lots of organisations that can prosecute independantly, local government, HMRC etc., the post office is probably a hangover from when it was an arm of the state before privatisation. But yes they are proving that they cannot be trusted with the responsibility they have been given.

 

[GordyR]

I’m still not really sure what you want them to apologise for?

Indeed, that's exactly the point.

Perhaps @n111ck would be kind enough to specify precisely what action he would like to have seen Keir Starmer take at the time, as the head of the CPS.

What action could he, or should he have taken, that would have avoided the need for an apology in @n111ck's eyes?

Baring in mind of course that he wasn't in possession of a crystal ball, and so was not aware that the evidence the Post Office had presented to the CPS prosecutors (which let's not forget, was also strong enough to convince a jury) was fraudulent.

Unless he's able to answer this question fully, then there is no conclusion left to draw, other than this being a thinly veiled, and quite desperate attempt to tenuously link someone that he doesn't like politically, to a scandal that has captured the public's attention; presumably in the ridiculous hope that it will stick.

 

[Jamauk]

This definitely needs to change.

I had no idea that the post office had that much power and sounds like they well and truly abused it with these poor people.

Clearly, it essentially creates two legal systems.

 

[a1ex2001]

It's mad that any organisation can perform investigation and prosecution of crimes against itself. Such a massive conflict of interest.

I was appalled yesterday when the investigator announced they were given bonuses for successful prosecutions, like bankers being rewarded for taking dangerous risks it hardly encourages good working practices.

 

[n111ck]

I’m still not really sure what you want them to apologise for? Would you be be happy with a Boris style sorry but not really sorry job or do you want hang wringing tears and begging?

It is clear to me from the evidence given so far that the issue here lies with the post office who should be immediately stripped of the ability to bring forward legal cases while a number of individuals should clearly be doing time for their parts in the process.

Starmer is quoted as saying the 'buck stops with him' whilst in charge of CPS.

Starmer was in charge of CPS when at least 3 miscarriages of justices took place in relation to Horizon - and based on the telegraph link there are likely to be more.

Starmer is forever calling for 'apologies' from the PM during PMQ's so apologising is clearly important to him.

Victims are calling for him to apologise.

As someone trying to present themselves as the future leader of this country they should show accountability and leadership by taking their own medicine and apologising.

To the whatabouters I'm not saying they are the only one that needs to apologise - they are one of many.

However as said before the damage is already done as he is now linked to this scandal in the public eye so his cowardice has made this worse for him.



Ed Davey constantly calls for people to resign over trivial issues.

Ed Davey is clearly implicated in this mess.

Ed Davey should take his own medicine and resign.

However he won't because he is unprincipled hypocrite and will get away with it because no cares about the Lib dems. it does mean he can no longer use his favourite attack line so he's going to have to work a bit harder lol.

 

[a1ex2001]

Starmer is quoted as saying the 'buck stops with him' whilst in charge of CPS.

Starmer was in charge of CPS when at least 3 miscarriages of justices took place in relation to Horizon - and based on the telegraph link there are likely to be more.

Starmer is forever calling for 'apologies' from the PM during PMQ's so apologising is clearly important to him.

Victims are calling for him to apologise.

As someone trying to present themselves as the future leader of this country they should show accountability and leadership by taking their own medicine and apologising.

To the whatabouters I'm not saying they are the only one that needs to apologise - they are one of many.

However as said before the damage is already done as he is now linked to this scandal in the public eye so his cowardice has made this worse for him.



Ed Davey constantly calls for people to resign over trivial issues.

Ed Davey is clearly implicated in this mess.

Ed Davey should take his own medicine and resign.

However he won't because he is unprincipled hypocrite and will get away with it because no cares about the Lib dems. it does mean he can no longer use his favourite attack line so he's going to have to work a bit harder lol.

The buck stops with him for mistakes the CPS made during his tenure what is the mistake the CPS made in this instance? Remember their remit is to asses if the evidence brought forward is likely to secure a conviction and the case is in the public interest. They are not an investigative body charged with establishing the veracity of the evidence which in this case was carefully concocted lies. The CPS looses cases every day should the boss apologise for each of those as well?

 

[GordyR]

Victims are calling for him to apologise.

Source please. Which victims and when?

And preferably not a silly tabloid who are trying to palm of their own hit piece as actually being backed by victims.

 

[n111ck]

The buck stops with him for mistakes the CPS made during his tenure what is the mistake the CPS made in this instance? Remember there remit is to asses if the evidence brought forward is likely to secure a conviction and the case is in the public interest. They are not an investigative body charged with establishing the capacity of the evidence which in this case was carefully concocted lies. The CPS looses cases every day should the boss apologise for each of those as well?

CPS = Our duty is to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence, and to bring offenders to justice wherever possible.

They failed in these cases so Starmer should apologise.

 

[sx_turbo]

There are lots of organisations that can prosecute independantly, local government, HMRC etc., the post office is probably a hangover from when it was an arm of the state before privatisation. But yes they are proving that they cannot be trusted with the responsibility they have been given.

Post office is still state owned.

But your right the ability to being private prosecution is a hangover from a bygone era that ended up being abused (it might well have always been abused by those wanting to make a name for themselves)

 

[n111ck]

@GordyR laughing at the victims again - shameful - would you laugh in their faces, probably not, just from the keyboard..

 

[Cosimo]

Source please. Which victims and when?

And preferably not a silly tabloid who are trying to palm of their own hit piece as actually being backed by victims.

The people asking him to apologise are some Tory MPs. These people, who after sitting on this for eight years ignoring the scandal have suddenly found a voice. They’re now using him as a punchball to cover up their for their inactivity on this matter. Don't you just love their sense of justice!

 

[a1ex2001]

CPS = Our duty is to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence, and to bring offenders to justice wherever possible.

They failed in these cases so Starmer should apologise.

Did you miss the ‘wherever possible’? If you are going to condemn them for this then by that measure the leader of the CPS should apologise for all failed prosecutions so should SKS stand up in parliament Monday and go through every single case that was lost of eventually over turned during his time as it’s head? Maybe we need a regular weekly spot on the BBC for the head of the CPS to perform public grovelling or does this only apply to those who later move into politics?

 

[GordyR]

@GordyR laughing at the victims again - shameful - would you laugh in their faces, probably not, just from the keyboard..

Do you actually think that people here are dumb enough to swallow your grotesque political opportunism and playschool-worthy attempts to portray my laughter at you, as laughter at the victims?

Come now. This silliness is beneath even you.

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

I was appalled yesterday when the investigator announced they were given bonuses for successful prosecutions, like bankers being rewarded for taking dangerous risks it hardly encourages good working practices.

He needs to go to prison. I thought he was unbelievably vile.

 

[n111ck]

Do you actually think that people here are dumb enough to swallow your grotesque political opportunism and playschool-worthy attempts to portray my laughter at you, as laughter at the victims?

Come now. This silliness is beneath even you.

You are literally laughing at the CPS mission statement which clearly demonstrates how they and Starmer failed the victims all because you are desperate to protect Starmers honour for some reason. It's absolutely pathetic and you are contemptuous. Its obvious you and others are so scared that the public won't vote for your nasally pompous **** that you couldn't give a toss about a few people wrongfully being imprisonsed or having their lives ruined.

It's so ironic for you to be playing the victim. Grow up.