So, what is an "Offensive Weapon" anyway??

Arsonist · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:23

Rroff said:
Which is quite a complex one for knives legal carry or not.

Is it? I'd have though knives was rather simple.

Either you're carrying them somewhere to use to cook with, or you've just bought them and taking them home.

Or, you're using them as an offensive weapon. What other legitimate reason might you have for carrying a knife?

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:32

Arsonist said:
Is it? I'd have though knives was rather simple.

Either you're carrying them somewhere to use to cook with, or you've just bought them and taking them home.

Or, you're using them as an offensive weapon. What other legitimate reason might you have for carrying a knife?

I'm not talking about cutlery.

Reginald · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:37

It may come down to intent as you guys are saying... but people lie.

"Oh no officer, I wasn't going to bash anyone's head in, I just found this hammer on the roadside and thought - Oooh free hammer"

I wouldn't feel comfortable if some dude on the tube was brandishing one, in the current climate - ya know?

neil_g · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:40

I bought a hammer in town the other day, didn't pay for a bag. If the missus didn't have a bag to put it in I would've had to carry it home. Maybe this was the same.

Arsonist said:
Is it? I'd have though knives was rather simple.

actually pretty complex. length of blade, lockable blades, religious reasons, going to work where it's used etc etc.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:42

neil_g said:
actually pretty complex. length of blade, lockable blades, religious reasons, going to work where it's used etc etc.

Not quite in the same vein as I meant it but the thumb operation (one handed) ability catches a lot of people out on otherwise legal carry knives heh.

Uther · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:46

CaptainComedy said:
I took an ironing board on once.

Just the ironing board.

If it had been a keyboard I would have been nervous.

neil_g · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:53

Rroff said:
Not quite in the same vein as I meant it but the thumb operation (one handed) ability catches a lot of people out on otherwise legal carry knives heh.

cant see any reference to that on GOV site? only the usual flick knife reference.

have they changed it?

(see not straight forward at all

)

tom_e · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:55

neil_g said:
cant see any reference to that on GOV site? only the usual flick knife reference.

have they changed it?

(see not straight forward at all )

It would come under the "flick knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’)" or at least I can't see why it wouldn't as the blade is in the handle until a button is pressed and it then "shoots" out.

wildman · 2 Feb 2017 at 13:57

A Bat'leth unless you are in full Klingon uniform then you can say it's part of your clobber.

neil_g · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:06

tom_e said:
It would come under the "flick knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’)" or at least I can't see why it wouldn't as the blade is in the handle until a button is pressed and it then "shoots" out.

i think we're talking about different things.

some knives have a nob on the blade so that you can unfold it with your thumb one handed.

AHarvey · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:09

I'm always carrying an offensive weapon with me

ooo matron!

Someone had to

tom_e · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:20

neil_g said:
i think we're talking about different things.

some knives have a nob on the blade so that you can unfold it with your thumb one handed.

Ah yes, I get you now. I agree then, I can't see what that would come under to make it naughty unless they're really bending the wording of the flick knife bit.

FurryLemon · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:29

I carry a knife when in the country. Just a simple Opinel No8 which has a locking 3" blade. Perfectly legal here. Even butterfly knives are legal here. Granted you still need a reason to carry one. I use mine to cut hay bale twine normally,though it has been used for various things from being a make shift putty knife to being used as a screwdriver.

Also use opinels as steak knives at home.

Gaygle · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:33

There is no open and shut law against carrying a hammer in public and it would not be classed as an offensive weapon unless it was being/going to be used in an offensive way. I guess if we're talking about a claw hammer, you could technically say it was a sharply pointed article so may fall under that offence, but the "reasonable excuse" aspect of it would be key. The circumstances are everything.

If man on the tube was carrying a hammer in his tool box because he'd just finished his day job as a builder and was on his way home, this would be a reasonable excuse. However, if man on tube was now in a known drug dealing hot spot at 2am with a balaclava on him and the same hammer tucked in his waist band - in my books, this would qualify as an offensive weapon because I'd believe he is intending to cause someone harm with it because it is concealed, there is no good reason for him to have it on him and he has a balaclava with him which further suggests he was going to injure someone.

So, like I said, the circumstances are everything when working out if someone possessed an offensive weapon. Often it won't be as cut and dried as my above example, but then this requires people to be interviewed and evidence supporting/negating their claims in interview to be explored.

Spuj · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:39

FurryLemon said:
I carry a knife when in the country. Just a simple Opinel No8 which has a locking 3" blade. Perfectly legal here. Even butterfly knives are legal here. Granted you still need a reason to carry one. I use mine to cut hay bale twine normally,though it has been used for various things from being a make shift putty knife to being used as a screwdriver.

Also use opinels as steak knives at home.

If you are carring that in the UK then that would be illegal (from what I understand) however your location says France so I'm assuming you mean out there which is different. I've got one my dads old Opinel's from when he was a teen, it's a lovely old thing.

FurryLemon · 2 Feb 2017 at 14:44

I love opinel. Good quality for the price (10-20 euro for the carbon blade) and very light. Replaced a far more expensive and much heavier leatherman.

jumpy · 2 Feb 2017 at 15:42

Spuj said:
If you are carring that in the UK then that would be illegal (from what I understand) however your location says France so I'm assuming you mean out there which is different. I've got one my dads old Opinel's from when he was a teen, it's a lovely old thing.

Illegal 'without good reason'. Reasons could be outdoor activities; fishing, shooting. Or for work etc. Context is everything, unless you have a copper who just wants to make your life miserable.

2 Things I have in my pocket / on my belt right now: swiss army penknife, leatherman super tool300.
The SAK goes everywhere, it's never not in my pocket, be it at the office of on a night out in town.
The ST300 is prety much the same but for one thing - the locking blades make it a 'fixed blade' in the eyes of the law and therefore restricted 'without good reason'. Because of this, I'll leave it at home if I'm going out on the town. But If I'm just out and about I'll have it with me more often than not. The pliers, screwdrivers, and the locking blade have all been useful as tools. All the same I'll not be needing it down the pub in all likelihood. So it stays at home so plod won't ruin my night out.

I don't need a 'good reason' (excuse) to have the SAK - non locking blades less than 3" in length.

I've always believed in taking responsibility for your own actions. It's a shame thugs have made the rest of us have to jump through hoops.

markonius · 2 Feb 2017 at 15:43

TheMightyTen said:
It's not just about the carrying though it's about the intimidation that open carrying creates.

TheMightyTen said:
You can how ever easily create laws that remove the intimidating presence of items from obvious public view as carrying them openly is entirely unnecessary.

I don't see how you can be intimidated just by the presence of an object. Surely it depends on what the person is doing with it? I saw an armed police officer holding a gun very visibly last week. Didn't feel intimidated because he wasn't doing anything wrong with it. If I saw someone holding the exact same gun, but yelling about getting revenge for something, then I'd be intimidated.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 15:47

jumpy said:
Illegal 'without good reason'. Reasons could be outdoor activities; fishing, shooting. Or for work etc. Context is everything, unless you have a copper who just wants to make your life miserable.

2 Things I have in my pocket / on my belt right now: swiss army penknife, leatherman super tool300.
The SAK goes everywhere, it's never not in my pocket, be it at the office of on a night out in town.
The ST300 is prety much the same but for one thing - the locking blades make it a 'fixed blade' in the eyes of the law and therefore restricted 'without good reason'. Because of this, I'll leave it at home if I'm going out on the town. But If I'm just out and about I'll have it with me more often than not. The pliers, screwdrivers, and the locking blade have all been useful as tools. All the same I'll not be needing it down the pub in all likelihood. So it stays at home so plod won't ruin my night out.

I don't need a 'good reason' (excuse) to have the SAK - non locking blades less than 3" in length.

I've always believed in taking responsibility for your own actions. It's a shame thugs have made the rest of us have to jump through hoops.

This is the thing though that kind of knife is illegal to carry except there are loads of possible reasons which would make it legal and vice versa a perfectly legal <3" non-locking knife could be questioned depending on the circumstances and get you into trouble.

ttaskmaster · 2 Feb 2017 at 15:49

FurryLemon said:
I carry a knife when in the country. Just a simple Opinel No8 which has a locking 3" blade. Perfectly legal here.

The wife bought me an Opinel - I didn't even realise it locked until I took a close look at the metal collar at the top.
That's a cunning design!!

tom_e said:
I can't see what that would come under to make it naughty unless they're really bending the wording of the flick knife bit.

"any knife which has a blade released by the force of mavity or application of centrifugal force, sometimes known as mavity knives"
In other words, a thumb stud on the blade is not illegal... but those where you can slacken the tension on the blade to the point where it just flips open with a bit of a flick or a jiggle could potentially come under the description above...

You have things like detent joints, slip joints, friction folders and the like, which do not actually lock but still strongly resist being closed... legal to carry but debatably a bending of the law, perhaps.