So when is football going to join the 20th century? (Flether's red card)

[red11]

It's easy to say in hindsight that Fletcher should have just let Fabregas score which he was bound to, but then we'd have fans saying why didn't he try and stop him from scoring, etc etc, not that the resulting goal that followed by penalty kick affected the outcome of the game. What UEFA need to address is the lack of a proper appeals procedure where cases like this can be reviewed.

I know people like to criticise Fletcher and say that we'll not miss him, but he is a big game player as strange as that sounds to non Man Utd fans. That tackle was typical of his attitude, never stops working for the team. He didn't want us to concede. He really has come on in the last two years as a footballer, we have found a role that suits him. He's no first teamer on a regular basis, but when there is a big game coming up, and we need energy and drive, he's one of the first on the team sheet. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have started in the final in what will probably be a 5 man midfield with Rooney on the left. I'm gutted for him, absolutely gutted.

 

[NeilF]

It's easy to say in hindsight that Fletcher should have just let Fabregas score which he was bound to, but then we'd have fans saying why didn't he try and stop him from scoring, etc etc, not that the resulting goal that followed by penalty kick affected the outcome of the game. What UEFA need to address is the lack of a proper appeals procedure where cases like this can be reviewed.

I know people like to criticise Fletcher and say that we'll not miss him, but he is a big game player as strange as that sounds to non Man Utd fans. That tackle was typical of his attitude, never stops working for the team. He didn't want us to concede. He really has come on in the last two years as a footballer, we have found a role that suits him. He's no first teamer on a regular basis, but when there is a big game coming up, and we need energy and drive, he's one of the first on the team sheet. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have started in the final in what will probably be a 5 man midfield with Rooney on the left. I'm gutted for him, absolutely gutted.

And the crazy thing is everyone can agree he shouldn't really have received a red card.... and yet it stands... even though there is really no doubt about it. Infact there was no doubt about it within 5 seconds of the tackle!

 

[manic111]

Seems fair enough to have it across the english and european competitions. If everyone in those competitions has it then everyone is on the same standing. Could even just trial it within the english leagues first to see how it works out.

That's not the case in tennis or cricket. As far as I'm concerned it simply must be the same for everyone in each individual competition. There is no reason that the CL could have video technology, but the PL not.


EDIT: Oops, sorry mate - misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying that everyone who plays football, from the CL to grass roots should all have the same tech, or nobody should get any.

I was watching the Cricket in the winter and their referral system was an absolute joke; players admitted they didn't like it because they didn't want to offend the umpires and even with the tv replays, what was considered by the majority to be the correct decision was far from always given.

In the majority of incidents a conclusive answer won't be given and it'll just slow the game down.

That's a good point. However, I would say that the problem in cricket isn't the referral system, but the way it's implemented; I don't see why the 3rd ump. should need to get involved at all with it - the standing umpire, whose decision it would be anyway, should merely be privvy to a replay on a big screen (for example). It should be left down to him and his decision, he should simply get to see it again.

The same should occur in football; the ref. should get another look at the incident from a couple of different camera angles. There should be no other person involved with the decision.

 

[Greenlizard0]

If there is a way that a ref can know if a ball's crossed the line then I suppose that's ok.

People can't really compare football to other sports, particularly rugby or cricket since these are much more stop/start games.

I reckon it was a penalty, for hauling Cesc down like that. If players can get cards/be penalised even if they get the ball but go through the player...

Was it a red card? Well, he denied him a clear scoring oppurtunity, Fletcher's touch was minimal at best. However would another defender be able to recover the situation is what is unsure.

I think he should have room to appeal, I'm not sure why the rules are such that only a mistaken identity can be challenged.

 

[NeilF]

If there is a way that a ref can know if a ball's crossed the line then I suppose that's ok.

People can't really compare football to other sports, particularly rugby or cricket since these are much more stop/start games.

I reckon it was a penalty, for hauling Cesc down like that. If players can get cards/be penalised even if they get the ball but go through the player...

Was it a red card? Well, he denied him a clear scoring oppurtunity, Fletcher's touch was minimal at best. However would another defender be able to recover the situation is what is unsure.

I think he should have room to appeal, I'm not sure why the rules are such that only a mistaken identity can be challenged.

Then you need to go and change the rules of football... Ball touched first... Cleanly...

If you watch you'll see there was no way Fabregas could have got the ball afterwards as Fletcher got enough of a touch on it...

 

[da_mic_1530]

I think they should implement goal-line technology before anything else.

 

[Greenlizard0]

Then you need to go and change the rules of football... Ball touched first... Cleanly...

If you watch you'll see there was no way Fabregas could have got the ball afterwards as Fletcher got enough of a touch on it...

I disagree with that - and also you don't know whether Cesc could have got the ball afterwards. You are only conjecturing. What is utterly clear, is that he was pulled downwards after Fletcher touched the ball.

Change the rules of football? Utter rubbish lol. Lots of "tackles" have been penalised in one way or another due to e.g. being dangerous. If it'd had happened outside the box, Cesc would have won a freekick and the other player penalised at least.

 

[Entai]

In my view the ref was perfectly correct in giving Fletcher the red card, because even though Fletcher did get the ball first, it was impossible for him to NOT take out Fabregas during the follow through part of the tackle.

Therefore even though Fletcher got the ball first, it was deemed to be a deliberate take down of Fabregas, therefore an instant red card has to be shown, (cited under "serious foul play, ......a two footed tackle that takes down the opponent")

If there had been any doubt in the referees mind that Fletcher had NOT deliberately taken down Fabregas then it would just have been a yellow.

 

[marl]

I believe use of technology would improve the game, other sports do it, so should football!

 

[halliwelldj]

I believe use of technology would improve the game, other sports do it, so should football!

Agreed, I'd love to see this implemented into football as most of the refs are total crap.

 

[HangTime]

In my view it was a penalty but not a red card. You see freekicks given for those sort of tackles all the time these days (taking the ball first and then the man).

As for the wider picture, it's hard to say. Personally I think more use should be made of retrospective replays and analysis after the match in terms of:

1) Dishing out punishments for dives that weren't punished by the ref
2) Potentially changing red/yellow cards given during the game in conjunction with the match referee

As for during the match, it's much tougher to call because you don't always get a dead ball situation. You could have for example a goalline incident, but the next time the ball goes out of play, is when it flies in the net at the other end. Imagine the controversy when you get a goal disallowed because the ball was adjudged to have gone out for a corner 20 seconds earlier.

Offside decisions would probably benefit the most from the technology, but again, you'd have a stupid situation where linos would be too scared to flag for fear of being overruled, meaning that play continues. If the ball ends up in the net, great, you can then check the replay and say goal or no goal. But if it stays in play you've got some potential decision pending for ages.

 

[Tombstone]

I think part of the issue is the damage done to the match. Its great to use technology after a match to correct a wrongly given red, but it doesnt correct the result.

In Fletchers case it made no difference to the actual result, but imagine if you will that England reach a world cup final (quite possibly for the only time in your life time), then imagine that Terry or Ferdinand are sent off wrongly partway through the match. Perhaps we then lose that world cup final because of being down to 10 men. Yes the technology can later show that it clearly was not a red card, and that can be corrected...but the fact that the game was lost hasnt been corrected.

Alternatively, in the 89th minute Terry fouls someone just outside the box in the world cup final, instant replays on sky clearly show it was outside the box, but the ref gives the penalty and costs the team the world cup. Again, after the match the ref can nicely speak to the media and say, oh ! sorry yes, I got that one wrong. But it doesnt alter the result.

For me, every possible aid should be utilized to enable the referees to get as many decisions correct as possible. As Perry Groves said last night on Sky, we want to be talking about the great players and performances after a match, not the referee.

 

[DominicStar]

Too costly and too disruptive in my opinion.

And it would cost each of the Sky 4 several points a season if replays were viewed every time the ref bottled it.

 

[Tombstone]

No more disruptive than the time lost currently by players chasing the ref around and moaning about a decision.

 

[a1ex2001]

No more disruptive than the time lost currently by players chasing the ref around and moaning about a decision.

Which they would still do every time an appeal was rejected because the TV evidence was inconclusive or they had used all there appeals for that match.

Not sure about the idea someone proposed of the replay being on a big screen for the ref on the pitch to make the call, it would allow Rooney or Drogba to be in his face telling him what the F*£% happened and how he should deal with it. Don't say it wouldn't happen it so would.

 

[jakeke]

In my view the ref was perfectly correct in giving Fletcher the red card, because even though Fletcher did get the ball first, it was impossible for him to NOT take out Fabregas during the follow through part of the tackle.

Therefore even though Fletcher got the ball first, it was deemed to be a deliberate take down of Fabregas, therefore an instant red card has to be shown, (cited under "serious foul play, ......a two footed tackle that takes down the opponent")

If there had been any doubt in the referees mind that Fletcher had NOT deliberately taken down Fabregas then it would just have been a yellow.

I agree, if Fletcher had completely cleared the ball from danger (out of play or 10 yards away etc.) then it wasn't a foul, but he barely cleared the danger and I am still sure that Fabregas would have reached the ball since it was only about 2 steps to his right after Fletcher touched it

 

[nst68]

We do but but most of them quit before getting to a respectable level due to abuse at the grass roots level.

Only way we can get better refs is it retrain ex footballers, fast tracking them and getting them back into the game with a decent level of respect from the current crop, but then they'd have too many loyalties to various clubs which would prove difficult.

I trained as a ref and used to do (for free) for my sons football games, but stopped doing them because of the abuse I used to get from parents (sometimes even from my sons team!).

To get the respect back at the grass roots I think it needs to be tackled at professional (TV) level.
I know people bang on (including me) about rugby refs but they don't get the abuse because the players know if they did that sort of thing they'd get a 10 yard penalty, and if it carried on they'd be looking at a 10 bins in the sin-bin.

The only way football can get to the same sort of player conduct is by cracking down HARD on the abuse.
This means players getting yellows and reds depending on the level of it.
The (major) downside to this is that for a while you'll have players being sent off and this could possible spoil the games, but they'd need to keep faith and soon enough the players and managers would get the message.

I'm not too sure about get ex-players to become referees.
Players play the came and ref's referee the game.
Yes you will have some that become good refs, but these people would probably have made good refs even if they hadn't been players.
Refereeing is a different skill to playing, yes they need to read the game etc, but a major part of it is man management.

Technology should be introduced into the game, probably starting with goal line decisions and then expanded to other things.
There will be issues with if/how the games is stopped to review something, but that's what trials are for.
Fans will still disagree with decisions that are made (normally ones against their team ).

 

[edwardcasbon1]

What you have to think is would that tackle be deemed a foul if it wasn't in the box? The answer is yes, of course it would. Therefore, it was definitely a penalty. He was last man and the foul prevented a goal scoring opportunity. Last time I looked that meant a red card.

For all those Utd fans winging, forget it, you're in the Final! You still have a strong squad, is it really going to make a difference? Get over it.

Anyway, Barca going to win it, so there!

 

[Tombstone]

Technology should be introduced into the game, probably starting with goal line decisions and then expanded to other things.
There will be issues with if/how the games is stopped to review something, but that's what trials are for.

Exactly !

I really cannot see any reason why it cant be at least trialled, even if its just trialling it in a lower league competition , something like the johnsons trophy. Would rather see it at least given a go than just outright dismissed.

 

[Tummy]

Just plain and simply don't agree with using Video's in the game.

It's what makes football so great, bad decisions, good decisions.

Also don't see how you'd sort it out so that every proffessional club would be able to use Video's in the games.