Lower average FPS.
**SO WHICH IS FASTER: 4GB GTX680M INTEL vs 2GB 7970M AMD MSI GAMING LAPTOPS??**
- Thread starter Gibbo
- Start date
Lower average FPS.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
You clearly missed my previous post that saying Heaven Bench has no bearing on real world gaming performance...as it is only good for showing purely the graphic muscle, but doesn't identify things like CPU bottleneck. And the reason why I specifically said "single player games" is that they general don't tax the CPU as much, comparing to online games which are generally much more CPU demanding. The how much horse-power and engine has means very little, if it was paired with a car with poor set of wheels.
Now have your facepalm aim back toward yourself.
Last edited:
The AMD setup is quieter for sure, but both generate noise after doing some intensive gaming work.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...e-f2a85x-up4-amd-a10-5800k-review-w-discrete/
yeah I can see what you mean? All that bottlenecking. Just look how it performs compared to the cheap Intel. These figures are from the desktop variant. Thing is unless you go i5 or above trinity actually appears the better deal and be prepared to pay more for the intel.
Last edited:
Thanks for posting that!
I am gonna do some benchmarks myself though, got Shogun 2 and Sleeping Dogs, so shall see how the two compare, I am sure the 680M will be faster, but not twice as quick or even close to twice as quick!
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
Sadly game's default benchmarks often don't push the hardware as hard as the actual gaming environment, and the high frame rate on the Shogun 2 says that much. And the kitguru's review, looking at the game list it in fact reinforce my point of AMD CPU would be fine for "single player" games on most part? Shame they don't test games under the situation where CPU matters.
Shogun 2:
Guild Wars 2:
I bet someone's gonna go and say but that's a 7970 at 1280 res bah bah bah. The reason reviewers always use low res for testing CPU scaling is to remove GPU bottleneck and look purely at CPU performance. The low frame rate on the AMD CPU in Guild Wars 2 for example means that even people with a lower card like 6850, even with dropping the graphic settings in game, it still wouldn't push the frame rate above what the CPU can deliver.
Last edited:
Twice the price also nets you SSDs, more ram & a bigger screen etc.
It's not as if you need to pay double just to get a 680M chip over the 7970M chip, the thread has derailed into another AMD vs Nvidia thread like in the graphics card forum.
As stated in your first post, you have proven the new A10 4600M is up to the job in GPU intensive games. I'd be very interested to see some realistic games that require some CPU usage like a heavily populated BF3 server. That way myself (and others) can see what the best mobile CPU is. I am interested in getting a gaming laptop so am quite eager to compare various mobile components.
It's not as if you need to pay double just to get a 680M chip over the 7970M chip, the thread has derailed into another AMD vs Nvidia thread like in the graphics card forum.
As stated in your first post, you have proven the new A10 4600M is up to the job in GPU intensive games. I'd be very interested to see some realistic games that require some CPU usage like a heavily populated BF3 server. That way myself (and others) can see what the best mobile CPU is. I am interested in getting a gaming laptop so am quite eager to compare various mobile components.
Sadly game's default benchmarks often don't push the hardware as hard as the actual gaming environment, and the high frame rate on the Shogun 2 says that much. And the kitguru's review, looking at the game list it in fact reinforce my point of AMD CPU would be fine for "single player" games on most part? Shame they don't test games under the situation where CPU matters.
Shogun 2:
Guild Wars 2:
I bet someone's gonna go and say but that's a 7970 at 1280 res bah bah bah. The reason reviewers always use low res for testing CPU scaling is to remove GPU bottleneck and look purely at CPU performance. The low frame rate on the AMD CPU in Guild Wars 2 for example means that even people with a lower card like 6850, even with dropping the graphic settings in game, it still wouldn't push the frame rate above what the CPU can deliver.
The first link doesn't have trinity. The second is with all the CPUs at 3ghz, which doesn't show anything as the AMD chips run at a faster speed, so that test will naturally show Intel to be faster. My linked benchmarks are much more 'real world' showing what the chips will likely be used for at a speed they will likely be used. I know its hard reading these figures when your palm is on your face but ask someone to dictate it for you if possible.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 30,390
- Location
- Dormanstown.
The results on that Shogun 2 are whack, 5GHZ 2500k performing the same as a stock 3570k?
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
Weird as it may be, but may be Shogun 2 is that one game that Ivy actually do better than Sandy by that much of a margin? I mean it's not every day that a game would even be any better on a Ivy comparing to Sandy since it would always be GPU bounded first or hitting 60fps anyway on most games. Either way, the Phenom IIs looks about right considering the IPC...
Either way, Heaven Bench to represent gaming performance is kinda misleading.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
For BF3 on multiplayer, it's about know what the realistic setting to be use with what graphic chip.
For example on the 64 players server, it's easy to "remove the CPU bottleneck" by forcing the graphic card to bite off more than it could chew. An example of this would be running a GTX560Ti 2GB with a i3 2120 on Ultra settings and 4xAA...frame rate would be relatively average to low, and GPU usage would be at 99% and CPU bottleneck is nowhere to be seen as the graphic's performance has been force down to lower than what the i3 2120 deliver. Reduce the graphic settings in attempt to increase frame rate by dropping settings to High and 2xAA, frame rate has improved, but GPU usage is hovering between 75% and 99%, with minimum frame rate struggle to maintain constant 40fps+ at all time.
It's EASY to force 99% GPU usage in modern demanding games, but whether or not can a system hold constant 50fps+ in some of them, it is down to CPU.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 30,390
- Location
- Dormanstown.
No chance.
The results are all over the place, some of them make absolutely no sense.
Last edited:
Yes!
They prove exactly what I've being saying all along. At 1080p its down to GPU performance and as such even in Shogun 2 this AMD based laptop is nearly as quick as the Intel 680M based laptop costing twice as much.
Of course at lower resolutions, the more powerful Intel CPU shows its muscle, but I stand by my original point, on a gaming 1080p laptop you game at 1080p as the GPU is powerful enough. Here is the Shogun 2 results:-
Shall post Sleeping Dogs results later or tomorrow in a nice a chart.
My point all along has being that 1080p gaming is far more reliant on GPU, and this does indeed seem the trait, as now proven in Heaven and Shogun 2. Fact is at 1080p gaming the CPU does very little, its mostly down to GPU performance. If playing at lower resolutions, then of course the CPU aids performance quite a bit.
Fact is for 1k you won't get a faster 1080p gaming laptop on the Intel/NVIDIA side. The AMD CPU is slower for sure, but it does not spoil your 1080p gaming experience.
Of course soon AMD will release the Enduro Hotfix so then those of you insistent on having Intel will be able to have the best of both worlds, an Intel based laptop with 7970M which is cheaper and a match for the more expensive 680M.
Truth is right now if you want an Intel gaming laptop for 1k, the best GPU you will get is a 660M/570M which simply won't offer the same performance in games at 1080p, not even close to this all AMD Laptop.
Hi there
Here is the Sleeping Dogs results, the 7970M is on top when visual settings are all set to extreme, which enables AA/AF I believe. However setting to normal so AA/AF is not on the 680M platform seems to have a big performance pull back, beating the 7970M, maybe thats the faster processor flexing its muscle?
We sell both laptops so I have no personal gain by saying buy the cheaper one, but I've run the benchmarks requested and pretty much proven my point, the 7970M AMD based laptop offers superb 1080p gaming performance, if thats your aim your not gonna find a better gaming laptop for the money. If the 680M Intel laptop was £200 more, then I'd consider it, but even if you remove the SSD, larger screen, bluray, your still talking an additional £500. I'd simply not spend it.
Of course the best option all round shall be when AMD release the hotfix for Enduro problem, then you can have full blown 7970M performance with Intel processor.
But please those saying that AMD Trinity is a bad match with 7970M is miss-leading, its just as capable in games at 1080p as the more powerful Intel based counterparts which cost considerably more.
Here is the Sleeping Dogs results, the 7970M is on top when visual settings are all set to extreme, which enables AA/AF I believe. However setting to normal so AA/AF is not on the 680M platform seems to have a big performance pull back, beating the 7970M, maybe thats the faster processor flexing its muscle?
We sell both laptops so I have no personal gain by saying buy the cheaper one, but I've run the benchmarks requested and pretty much proven my point, the 7970M AMD based laptop offers superb 1080p gaming performance, if thats your aim your not gonna find a better gaming laptop for the money. If the 680M Intel laptop was £200 more, then I'd consider it, but even if you remove the SSD, larger screen, bluray, your still talking an additional £500. I'd simply not spend it.
Of course the best option all round shall be when AMD release the hotfix for Enduro problem, then you can have full blown 7970M performance with Intel processor.
But please those saying that AMD Trinity is a bad match with 7970M is miss-leading, its just as capable in games at 1080p as the more powerful Intel based counterparts which cost considerably more.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
Actually the normal settings performance pretty much says it all about the CPU performance differenct between the two laptops. Intel's minimum 45fps and averaging nearly 60fps is much more playable than AMD's minimum 22.9fps and average 39fps.Hi there
Here is the Sleeping Dogs results, the 7970M is on top when visual settings are all set to extreme, which enables AA/AF I believe. However setting to normal so AA/AF is not on the 680M platform seems to have a big performance pull back, beating the 7970M, maybe thats the faster processor flexing its muscle?
We sell both laptops so I have no personal gain by saying buy the cheaper one, but I've run the benchmarks requested and pretty much proven my point, the 7970M AMD based laptop offers superb 1080p gaming performance, if thats your aim your not gonna find a better gaming laptop for the money. If the 680M Intel laptop was £200 more, then I'd consider it, but even if you remove the SSD, larger screen, bluray, your still talking an additional £500. I'd simply not spend it.
Of course the best option all round shall be when AMD release the hotfix for Enduro problem, then you can have full blown 7970M performance with Intel processor.
But please those saying that AMD Trinity is a bad match with 7970M is miss-leading, its just as capable in games at 1080p as the more powerful Intel based counterparts which cost considerably more.
As for extreme setting, I feel that I need to point out that Sleeping Dogs would use SuperSampling under this setting, and as far as I know, Nvidia cards don't handle SuperSampling as well as AMD's cards, so the much bigger performance drop on the 680M comparing to 7970M make sense. However despite the 7970M is faster than the 680M at handling SuperSampling, looking at the minimum and average frame rate it is still not playable performance. Even on the desktop PC platform, I don't think there are many people would play the game under Extreme settings, unless they have at least a highly overclocked 7950, and/or have at least minimum 35fps.
May be the question should be asked now is...does OcUK has a good Intel based i5 gaming laptop (but strip of the fancy extras) for not much over the AMD laptop?
Last edited:
How about the Shogun results then?
Regarding playable, I found Sleeping Dogs was perfectly playable on both machines at Extreme settings as did others here.
Facts remain the MSI 680M is twice the price of the MSI 7970M machine, my money would go on the 7970M machine because at 1080P it plays the games fine.
However a better solution would be an Intel based laptop, with 7970M with Enduro hotfix and also for under 1k. I am working on making this possible right now.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2010
- Posts
- 14,582
How about the Shogun results then?
Regarding playable, I found Sleeping Dogs was perfectly playable on both machines at Extreme settings as did others here.
Facts remain the MSI 680M is twice the price of the MSI 7970M machine, my money would go on the 7970M machine because at 1080P it plays the games fine.
However a better solution would be an Intel based laptop, with 7970M with Enduro hotfix and also for under 1k. I am working on making this possible right now.
Well, I can't be the only one that find playing under the condition of below 30fps irritating who would rather trade eye candy (that might not even be noticable) for 40fps+...
For the Shogun 2 result...can you comparing the minimum frame frate while having lots of units on screen at the same time?
Also, any chance MSI be releaseing a simliar spec gaming laptop to the AMD's one, but with the Intel CPU/platform for may be around £1300?
Last edited:
For the Shogun 2 result...can you comparing the minimum frame frate while having lots of units on screen at the same time?
Any chance MSI be releaseing a simliar spec gaming laptop to the AMD's one, but with the Intel CPU/platform for may be around £1300?
Nope I am having to do all the hard work myself, here it is for the first 10 units sold:-
OcUK Limited Edition P170EM 17.3" LED Full HD Intel Processor, 1600MHz DDR3, SSD + HDD, ATI HD 7970M 2GB GDDR5 Graphics Card - Windows - Black @ £999.96 inc VAT
This Limited Edition of 10 units only now makes it possible to have a state of the art hardcore gaming laptop for under £1000. Though we do recommend customising the laptop with more memory along with additional storage. But now you can have an Intel based 7970M powerhouse of a gaming laptop all for under £1000, though you can also spec the system up with options that take it beyond the £1000 price too. Rest assured the 7970M graphics in this laptop can handle any game with ease.
For hardcore gamers the OcUK Extreme P170EM is the perfect choice. There is no more powerful or better constructed option, with the latest Intel Core I7 Processor there is no shortage of power and for those who only demand the most powerful, we can construct the OcUK Extreme P170EM with an Intel I7 Extreme processor too.
This chassis uses the absolute very latest in technology such as SATA3, USB3.0, Bluetooth, WiFi but the most impressive of all is the fact this system feature an ATi Radeon 7970M with 2GB of GDDR5 dedicated memory for absolutely blistering performance. Infact this is the fastest gaming laptop we sell and more importantly its also one of the best value and offers you the ability to tailor to your exact needs.
With a backlit keyboard you will no longer have problems finding the keys during the dark or whilst playing your favourite shoot 'em up! Not only that but with a choice of colours to suit your environment and taste your notebook will look more stylish than ever!
With a LED backlit 17.3" screen with True HD (1920x1080) resolution games have never looked so good on the go or ran so smooth due to the power of the ATI HD 7970M onboard graphics. The OcUK Extreme P170EM feature a blue backlit keyboard and high quality THX speakers for the ultimate gaming experience.
For memory we only use the highest performance and most reliable for laptops, which is Corsair Vengeance which is set to run at 1600MHz with T1 memory timings resulting in absolute instant response. 8GB is the default choice which is more than adequate for all task and gaming, we only recommend 16GB kit if your also doing a lot of photography work or heavy multi-tasking. Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz will extract the very best performance from the OcUK Extreme P170EM causing zero bottlenecks in the system.
For hard drive options, we recommend the primary drive as an SSD drive, this means from point of pressing power on your should be at the Windows 7 Desktop in approx 10 seconds and with an SSD applications and games load more or less instantly. Of course if you preferre capacity you can choose a large capacity HDD or a Hybrid drive too. Our recommendation is to select an SSD for the primary drive along with a HDD as the secondary drive for storage.
Specification:-
- Operating System: Choose from the drop down options!
- Display: 17.3" SuperBright LED True HD Display (1920x1080 Resolution)
- Graphics: AMD Radeon™ HD7970M 2GB GDDR5
- Storage: Choose from the drop down options!
- Optical: Choose from the drop down options!
- HD Audio
- Mic Noise Suppression
- Dolby Home Theatre®
- 4W Stereo Speakers (2W x 4)
- Subwoofer
- 2 megapixel Webcam
- Processor: Intel® Core™ i5 / i7 Processor - Choose exact model from drop down options!
- Physical Specification: 412mm x 276mm x 41.8~45.4mm (3.9kg with battery)
- Memory: 4GB DDR3 System Memory at 1600MHz (4GB x 1) OR choose 8/16GB DDR3 Options
- Main Chipset: Intel HM77
- Communication: 10 / 100 / 1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN,Wireless LAN, Widi Support
- Intel Centrino Wireless N 2230
- Bluetooth Connectivity
- Bluetooth 3.0
- 1x HDMI Port
- 3x USB3.0 Ports
- 1x USB2.0 Port
- 1x E-SATA
- 1x DVI-I
- 1x DisplayPort
- 1x Microphone IN
- 1x Headphone OUT
- 1x DC IN
- 1x RJ-45 Jack
- 1x IEEE 1394a
- Kensington Lock: YES
- 8 Cell Smart Lithium-ION Battery
- Fingerprint Scanner
- 9in1 Card Reader
- 2yr Warranty (1yr Parts, 2yr Labour)
Service Package
- Full 24 Month collect and return warranty (12 month on parts)
- Each specification is assembled from handpicked components for compatibility and stability
- Telephone, web note and forum technical support
Is this Notebook for You?
Immense performance, powerful graphics and sleek hardware all combine to create the "OcUK Extreme P170EM", perfect for the gaming enthusiast.
Note - If you would like to make a small change to the specification call our sales team on 0871 200 5052 and they will be happy to help.
* No OS systems are fully tested with the same extensive methods as systems chosen with an operating system. Including tests such as CPU, memory and GFX stress tests. All no OS systems are formatted completely before shipping.
*Please allow between 48 and 96 hours for your system to be built and configured. This may take longer during busier periods. You can choose from the drop down options to jump the queue by selecting one of our Fast Track options. If your choosing the 24hr next day service, to get the laptop delivered next working day you need to order pre 10:30am to give us enough time to build, test and get your laptop shipped out, otherwise you will get it the following day.
Was [£1183.96] Inc. VAT
Only £999.96 inc VAT. (ONLY 10 AVAILABLE - PRE-ORDER SPECIAL)
ORDER NOW