Solar energy and the Feed-In Tariff - your opinions

[peter]

Had our system 2 months now very happy with it , was able to specify the equipment used so we have a web enabled Dutch nedap inverter with the ability to add batteries and has island mode so we can run from the panels if needed .
The last three days have all been over 11 kwh per day, more than we are using.

 

[Spit]

And does that 11K include if it was instead working against your mortgage for example?

There's also some risks surely?
1) You're assuming your 'pay back' remains the same? What if you start getting less for some reason?
2) If you happen to move in the next 5yrs?



Given the two schemes, does anyone have any advice then?
1) Where you buy it outright completely?
2) Where the solar company fits it for free?

My payment goes up with inflation. I have a legally binding contract so highly unlikely I will not get paid. I am settled in the house and if I do move it will add value and sale appeal to the property. I actually have 2 installations, one at home and one at a rental house. 22k for 2 3.84kw systems. Return this year should be £4.5-5k over the 2 properties. One is south facing, the other south east.

 

[NeilF]

Had our system 2 months now very happy with it , was able to specify the equipment used so we have a web enabled Dutch nedap inverter with the ability to add batteries and has island mode so we can run from the panels if needed .
The last three days have all been over 11 kwh per day, more than we are using.

So how much money do you recon you'll claw back per year roughly? At 11kwh that's about £1 an hour in the middle of Winter for example?

 

[Spit]

11kwh is £4.76.

 

[Castiel]

So how much money do you recon you'll claw back per year roughly? At 11kwh that's about £1 an hour in the middle of Winter for example?

I have, since July, paid no Electricity bills (around £700) and EON currently owe me £787.60, on a 4Kwh system. We are currently well ahead of our target of £1800 total revenue by end of June.

This means that my initial £12k investment will be returned within 6 years, giving a further 18 years of investment growth, over the full investment period we should conservatively triple our initial investment adjusted for inflation.

You will not get that kind of return anywhere else without significant risk to the investment, even then.

 

[Spit]

Good to hear Castiel. I am hoping to break the £2k barrier this year myself.

 

[NeilF]

I have, since July, paid no Electricity bills (around £700) and EON currently owe me £787.60, on a 4Kwh system. We are currently well ahead of our target of £1800 total revenue by end of June.

This means that my initial £12k investment will be returned within 6 years, giving a further 18 years of investment growth, over the full investment period we should conservatively triple our initial investment adjusted for inflation.

You will not get that kind of return anywhere else without significant risk to the investment, even then.

That's very interesting...

So the rebate you get for contributing back to the grid, which clearly at them moment is appealing, how likely is that to be as appealing in 2-3yrs? ie: Could it be reduced such that you don't see so much return?

 

[Spit]

No, it is 43.3p per KWh for 25 years with an increase each April in accordance with inflation. They cannot change this. Should change to around 46p for us in April.

All the talk at the moment is that the government reduced it in December for all new installations fitted after 12th December to 21p KWh so the investment isnt as attractive. People are challenging this in the courts as it was supposed to be reduced in April this year only after a consultation. Those that had theirs fitted before the 12th December are protected under the old scheme.

We get paid whether we use the electricity or not. That is why the free fitters came along.

 

[NeilF]

No, it is 43.3p per KWh for 25 years with an increase each April in accordance with inflation. They cannot change this. Should change to around 46p for us in April.

All the talk at the moment is that the government reduced it in December for all new installations fitted after 12th December to 21p KWh so the investment isnt as attractive. People are challenging this in the courts as it was supposed to be reduced in April this year only after a consultation. Those that had theirs fitted before the 12th December are protected under the old scheme.

We get paid whether we use the electricity or not. That is why the free fitters came along.

Oh! So if we had ours fitted now, we have no idea if we'd get the higher or lower rate?

Other things I've read about further concerns/costs:-
- The fitters have not obligation - and indeed it's not in their interest - to call in a structural engineer to look at the roof. As long as the weight of the solar panels are not more than 15% of the estimated roof load, they can just fit it and not be in anyway liable. As such then, in a couple of years, if the roof develops any problems, structural, or even just leaks, due to the fitting, the house owner will have the hefty bill for repair.
- If the 'inverter' (?) breaks for example, then again, the house owner is liable of the cost.


You also can't help but feel the Government may backout of this (higher) deal in the future somehow?! You could see people running arc lamps up onto their roof to power their solar panels all night to make a profit So you can see why the government may 'adjust' this deal in years to come!?

 

[PlacidCasual]

This scheme is a travesty, like most of the renewable energy schemes. Costs being piled onto the price of electricity for no rational reason.

Frdiay morning one renewable company with over 2,500MW of installed wind power capacity was producing a total of 29MW during one of the highest demand days in the last year. Oil fired back up station were running to cover their load. You don't pay a high price once for renewables you pay it twice.

 

[Glaucus]

It was deemed illegal, so ATM you still get higher rate. However come April then it will almost certainly lower.

 

[Spit]

Yes, people having them fitted now are in limbo to be honest.

We used a solar company that was also a roofing company. They do not weigh very much as I picked a panel up when they were installing mine. They are like thin white boards you get in school with an aluminium frame. With all the wind we had in December I never heard the slightest rattle from mine. They are very secure.

I have a 20 year extended warranty on my Fronius invertor backed by an insurance company.

Cannot see how the government can back out of existing agreements but as long as its past 5 years I will have my money back anyway.

There is no way people will start running lamps onto their solar panels as the energy companies would soon know something fishy was going on as they are only going to produce so much in line with the weather, orientation etc.

 

[Castiel]

That's very interesting...

So the rebate you get for contributing back to the grid, which clearly at them moment is appealing, how likely is that to be as appealing in 2-3yrs? ie: Could it be reduced such that you don't see so much return?

It can't be reduced as the legally enforceable contract with the Govt is for 25 years, and the subsidy applies to ALL generated wattage, not just that sent back to the Grid.

The subsidy is also index linked to inflation so it's relative value remains the same.

The supplier also guarantees 80% of expected generation over the 25 year period which is what our estimates on based on.....and we were very conservative with total generation, hence being significantly above those estimates at this time.

 

[Castiel]

You also can't help but feel the Government may backout of this (higher) deal in the future somehow?! You could see people running arc lamps up onto their roof to power their solar panels all night to make a profit So you can see why the government may 'adjust' this deal in years to come!?

It doesn't work like that.

 

[dannyjo22]

It was deemed illegal, so ATM you still get higher rate. However come April then it will almost certainly lower.

My future brother in law jumped on the bandwagon a couple of years ago and set up a company fitting installations. Of course last year he made a fortune.

We were discussing the impact of the FIT recently and he says all his suppliers have told him that as soon as the FIT changes and they are not returning the investment over for example 10 years the price of the panels will be slashed dramtically. They are being sold with such high margins as they would be when everyone wants in, that the price of the installation/materials will come down to reflect the loss of tarrif.

He keeps offering to do mine for free but I just cannot stand the look of them on a house. In a few years when they get thinner or can replace the tiles at a reasonable cost then fair enough. I look at the house pictures on the previous page at it looks awful as do all the installation pictures I've seen. Unless I could put them on a detached garage or building separate from my house I will put up with my electricity bill.

 

[Castiel]

My future brother in law jumped on the bandwagon a couple of years ago and set up a company fitting installations. Of course last year he made a fortune.

We were discussing the impact of the FIT recently and he says all his suppliers have told him that as soon as the FIT changes and they are not returning the investment over for example 10 years the price of the panels will be slashed dramtically. They are being sold with such high margins as they would be when everyone wants in, that the price of the installation/materials will come down to reflect the loss of tarrif.

He keeps offering to do mine for free but I just cannot stand the look of them on a house. In a few years when they get thinner or can replace the tiles at a reasonable cost then fair enough. I look at the house pictures on the previous page at it looks awful as do all the installation pictures I've seen. Unless I could put them on a detached garage or building separate from my house I will put up with my electricity bill.

Mine are on my garage.....there are pics in the thread somewhere.

Here they are:

 

[Glaucus]

Yep, I said that in this this thread. Due to the monopoly on both certified fitters and panels(can only use certain models) prices will drop when government reduce tariffs. However still better of at this fit rate. As the reduction in cost still won't balance out with cost of instalation.

 

[NeilF]

It doesn't work like that.

I'm sure that was the thinking behind other schemes too, like pension say...

 

[Castiel]

I'm sure that was the thinking behind other schemes too, like pension say...

The cost of running sufficent artifical lighting to generate enough wattage to cover the costs of that lighting..(not to mention the planning permissions) would not make it financially viable.

 

[Glaucus]

I'm sure that was the thinking behind other schemes too, like pension say...

Using lamps lol.

The lights aren't very efficient. A fluorescent converts just 22% into light.
The panels themselves convert just 7-13% of light into energy. You then have light wastage to include. It's just never going to happen.