Some news on Piledriver

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 6 Jul 2012 at 14:42

mmj_uk said:
Well Sandy Bridge was about 1.5 steps and Intel seem to be moving at the twice the rate of AMD in terms of R&D and getting them released onto shelves.

Mathematics aside my point is AMD are forever playing catchup and the gap seems to be widening not closing.

Then ARM based SOCs quietly sneak up and takes the market from both of them for the majority of home users!!

buchtis · 6 Jul 2012 at 15:02

Are AMD still relevant for the mid to high desktop crowd? Only saying this as I came from a 1090T at 4Ghz to a 2700k and the 2700K at stock felt a lot quicker and smoother that the overclocked 1090T.

humbug · 6 Jul 2012 at 15:21

buchtis said:
Are AMD still relevant for the mid to high desktop crowd? Only saying this as I came from a 1090T at 4Ghz to a 2700k and the 2700K at stock felt a lot quicker and smoother that the overclocked 1090T.

That's a £240 chip vs a £140 chip, so i would not say a 2700K,- £100 more expensive than a 1090T and an FX-8120 is mid to high, its just plain high.

Right now i don't think Bulldozer is value for money vs Sandy / Ivy Bridge.

If one can get a Phenom II x6 Black Edition for the same money as an FX-8120 then that is good value for money, right now my X6 in its original box and never used Stock cooler is worth about £120, add some pocket change to that and i have a brand new FX 8 core that will drop right on to my existing MOBO.

Am i interested? no chance, unfortunately. that is not to say the FX-8 is a bad chip. Thuban is just plain better.

As for the Piledriver FX-83~~ all indications are it will out perform Thuban (stock), run cooler, use less power and overclock vastly higher.

Prices of them will probably be around the 3770K mark on release as Bulldozer was, or maybe lower if AMD have learnt anything from that fiasco. either way it will drop to way below the 3570 / 3770 mark pretty sharpish.

linktoinsanity · 7 Jul 2012 at 15:58

humbug said:
That's a £240 chip vs a £140 chip, so i would not say a 2700K,- £100 more expensive than a 1090T and an FX-8120 is mid to high, its just plain high.

But then there are i3 and i5 processors for that job so why does that matter?

Martin etc are absolutely right when they say not to get excited over just a couple of test results. It is early days yet. I hope AMD can bring something to the table against intel's current monopoly, but after Bulldozer, we'll see.

Just to add logs to the fire, was it not the Phenom 2 that wasn't far off the 65nm core 2 CPUs in performance per clock back in the day? That's a long way off even the i7 920 if so. Maybe that was the first Phenom...

Martini1991 · 7 Jul 2012 at 16:15

Phenom II was pretty much identical with 65nm Core 2 performance, only problem is this came out after the i7's.

However, a tweaked Phenom II with a high CPU NB could catch a 45nm Core 2 clock for clock.

humbug · 7 Jul 2012 at 16:22

linktoinsanity said:
But then there are i3 and i5 processors for that job so why does that matter?

It matters because you can not compare a £240 CPU to a £140 CPU and say the £240 CPU is better value for money because it performs better, that's just plain idiotic, and i think you know that.

An i3 costs £90, about the same as an FX-4 or Phenom II x4, the i3 has better single threaded performance at stock, however the overclockability of the i3 is limited and the multi threaded performance is better on the FX4 and Phenom II x4, the FX-4 and Phenom II x4 have good overclockability, enough to match the i3's single threaded performance, so overall they are better chips, better value as they cost around the same.

An i5 2500K / 3570K also has the better single threaded performance than the Phenom II x6 and FX-8, yet the Phenom II x6 and FX-8 match it stock in multi threaded, however the i5's overclock to higher performance levels than both the x6 and FX-8, so overall the performance is higher.

Those i5's cost around £170 and the FX-8 / x6 around £140.

Those are fair assessments in value for money.

linktoinsanity · 7 Jul 2012 at 22:14

Martini1991 said:
Phenom II was pretty much identical with 65nm Core 2 performance, only problem is this came out after the i7's.

However, a tweaked Phenom II with a high CPU NB could catch a 45nm Core 2 clock for clock.

Ah so I did remember it right.

But doesn't this mean that AMD are behind even the first generation i7s as their Phenom 2s are faster than their latest chips aren't they?

Then again, they are run at faster clocks (stock)...

humbug · 7 Jul 2012 at 22:44

linktoinsanity said:
Ah so I did remember it right.

But doesn't this mean that AMD are behind even the first generation i7s as their Phenom 2s are faster than their latest chips aren't they?

Then again, they are run at faster clocks (stock)...

The first gen i7 are a little ahead of Phenom II core for core clock for clock, just not as much as Sandy Bridge, The performance of gen one i7 is not greatly better, in multi threaded the x6 out classes the old i7, but again not by a great deal. they are actually fairly evenly matched, they just perform in different ways.

IMHO its when Sandy Bridge came along is when AMD actually started to fall behind, Bulldozer was supposed to be AMD's answer to that call.

SlugForAButt · 8 Jul 2012 at 02:39

Martini1991 said:
Fabricate more please.

Nice... you going to follow that up with "cry plz"?
Nothing more needs to be said, just show people some respect is all I'm asking.

FoxEye · 8 Jul 2012 at 04:02

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Then ARM based SOCs quietly sneak up and takes the market from both of them for the majority of home users!!

ARM could be cheaper and better for home users, but that alone isn't important.

What is important is the advice the salesmen in PCW, etc, are giving to customers. Customers will generally buy exactly what the salesman pitches to them.

And so if Intel gives "incentives" to the salesmen to sell Intel systems, then those are what customers will buy. ARM could have the better product, it wouldn't matter.

Linux could have the most amazing OS and desktop in the world, it wouldn't matter. As long as the PCs in PCW come with Windows, Windows is what your average Joe will use.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 8 Jul 2012 at 09:50

FoxEye said:
ARM could be cheaper and better for home users, but that alone isn't important.

What is important is the advice the salesmen in PCW, etc, are giving to customers. Customers will generally buy exactly what the salesman pitches to them.

And so if Intel gives "incentives" to the salesmen to sell Intel systems, then those are what customers will buy. ARM could have the better product, it wouldn't matter.

Linux could have the most amazing OS and desktop in the world, it wouldn't matter. As long as the PCs in PCW come with Windows, Windows is what your average Joe will use.

You have a point,but with the popularity of things like the iPad,and even MS making Win RT,I can see these sorts of devices replacing a lot of sub £500 to £600 x86 computers eventually. Even people who need a keyboard,will probably be served by devices like the ones Asus are pushing out.

People also seem to fine with console level graphics,and these SOCs should have reasonable enough graphics power for games too with that level of quality(maybe even better).

When compared to even weak desktop chips and graphics cards(let alone high end IGPs we will see next year),these SOCs are relatively slow.

Then we seem to be getting indications that the next generation consoles won't be massively powerful,but are meant to last longer than the current generation too. Despite this they will still be popular.

As time progresses,I see a slowing down of traditional CPU progression on the desktop,with a move towards more TDP reduction and utilisation of things like graphics cards (heterogenous computing like what Intel and AMD are already trying to push). We can see this clearly with IB(even Trinity). Haswell will further demote the CPU to a smaller percentage of the entire chip,with more focus towards improving IGP performance. The IGP will also be used to boost the performance of more and more applications.

Desktop chips are moving more and more towards becoming SOCs. It is a really interesting period in the development of CPUs.

Perhaps server chips plonked in for desktop use(like SB-E) will be the last bastion of the pure performance traditional CPU(at a cost) but eventually this will change too.

Gashman · 10 Jul 2012 at 02:35

wow, all this pro-Intel stuff reminds me of why I don't come on here anymore, can't believe how many people are so up Intel behind that they simply reply to any AMD related news as 'pointless', what happened to this forum...?

wannabedamned · 10 Jul 2012 at 02:40

Gashman said:
wow, all this pro-Intel stuff reminds me of why I don't come on here anymore, can't believe how many people are so up Intel behind that they simply reply to any AMD related news as 'pointless', what happened to this forum...?

Just ignore those comments

I can see nothing but good news here. A processor with 8 cores that matches or betters the 1090t isnt something to be sniffed at. Especially if the overclock potential is the same.

Number_25 · 10 Jul 2012 at 02:53

I hope to god that it smashes 40 colours of doodah from IB.

kitch9 · 10 Jul 2012 at 07:26

Gashman said:
wow, all this pro-Intel stuff reminds me of why I don't come on here anymore, can't believe how many people are so up Intel behind that they simply reply to any AMD related news as 'pointless', what happened to this forum...?

The guy who posted "pointless" is becoming more and more pointless with each post though.

kitch9 · 10 Jul 2012 at 07:29

Muel said:
It's AMD. If the last 5 years are anything to go by, then it'll be rubbish, the prices will drop and it'll be a cheap alternative to Intel, as per usual.

i7-3770k is £275~, 8150 £175~

Latest chipset motherboards, the Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 board is £115~, and the Z77X-UD3H is £130~

£405 instead of £290 means Intel are 25% more expensive. SHOCK HORROR. Do they perform 25% better? That'll be a yep. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/551?vs=434

I'll be shocked if piledriver is any different. It was the same with the Phenom II x4 vs i7 920, and they Phenom II x6 vs i7 2600k, and the FX-8150 vs i7-3770k.

Can't change nature.

At those prices, if AMD have sorted the power draw then PD would be quite frankly a HELL of a chip.

BD's main crux was power draw, its price is correct/good for its performance I just couldn't consider it as it sucked too much juice.

Nightglow · 10 Jul 2012 at 07:53

Number_25 said:
I hope to god that it smashes 40 colours of doodah from IB.

I do hope so, long overdue, longing to go go back to AMD, but when I upgraded to the 2500K it was superior to anything AMD had available at the time.

Bleek · 10 Jul 2012 at 09:02

kitch9 said:
The guy who posted "pointless" is becoming more and more pointless with each post though.

I'm not sure why he puts himself in the firing line so often!

Number_25 · 10 Jul 2012 at 13:28

Does anyone else feel that it's a bit silly that AMD haven't released any technical documentation to the press - even though it's due to be released within a few months?

Martini1991 · 10 Jul 2012 at 13:34

Bleek said:
I'm not sure why he puts himself in the firing line so often!

Because rapid fanboys make me laugh.
Also, I said pointless because it's an OP with just a link to Softpedia of all places (Take a look through some of the last threads he's made, the rather messed up Softpedia link that is so conflicting it's retarded, or the next softpedia article to the 7990, everyone remembers the softpedia article where "AMD Said" FX would best the i7 920 by 50%)

Not that Piledriver/AMD are pointless, but no....

kitch9 said:
The guy who posted "pointless" is becoming more and more pointless with each post though.

I said pointless due to the nature of the OP's post, nothing about PD or AMD.

And if anyone's pointless, it'd be you with half the trolling and flaming you do.

Gashman said:
wow, all this pro-Intel stuff reminds me of why I don't come on here anymore, can't believe how many people are so up Intel behind that they simply reply to any AMD related news as 'pointless', what happened to this forum...?

That's just a little sensationalist isn't it?
Is it not the same thing when AMD users will jump down my throat for completely absolutely sod all reason?