Sonos 5.1 setup possible from multiple sources??

Chris [BEANS]

Chris [BEANS]

Chris [BEANS]

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Bigger box!
So....

The deal is, I'm looking for a wireless multi room system.

Seems Sonos is a no brainer.

I have an Apple Music subscription, and will be getting an iPad mini strictly for controlling the Sonos and streaming Apple Music around the house.

Firstly, does anyone have any experience of streaming Apple Music via the Sonos app? Is it as easy to use as the Apple Music app itself? Do you have access to things like the curator playlists etc, or is it just a case of searching for artists/bands by name?


Anyway, the real question is this....

I'd like a 5.1 setup on the main TV downstairs.

So, Playbar, Sub, and two rear Play 1's.
Connected to the TV via HDMI will be the Sky box and the PS4 (maybe the Apple TV, but I'm struggling to see why I'd need it to be honest).

The TV would then be connected to the Playbar via optical cable.
However, I've looked around, and it seems that if the PS4 connects direct to the TV via HDMI, then the TV would only output stereo via the optical out.

Is that right? Seems insane!

This means, I could either have 5.1 from the PS4, or the Sky box, but not both unless I was prepared to keep swapping the optical cable between the two.
Surely not?!? This Sonos setup appears to be from the future, it makes no sense that with new Sony TV, and a new 5.1 system and the current gen of console, I can't have 5.1 from two different sources....


Anyone?
 
You are quite correct that your TV will down-convert audio from HDMI sources to basic stereo. It sucks, but that's the situation. You'll only get real 5.1 from the TV tuner on those HD channels that actually broadcast full 5.1 or from streamed content.

As much as I love Sonos both as a user and a dealer I'd have to say that in your case there's probably better solutions out there if you are interested in making the most of the digital audio from your sources. But if we stay with the idea of using Sonos for the moment then the answer is to install a remote controlled Optical switch to handle the Sky box, PS4, ATV4 and TV audio if that was ever needed. You'll find such devices on the web for around £50-£60 and I dare say if you scour the web long enough then cheaper than that.

The full 5.1 system from Sonos tips the scales at a shade over £1400. Add the Optical switch and the extra cables and you're looking at closer to £1500. You can equal or beat the sonic performance of that system and still retain the Sonos functionality for a smaller budget. You'll also solve the 5.1 audio issue and at the same time add compatibility with those audio formats that the Sonos package doesn't support; namely DTS, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. The only compromises are that the alternative system takes up a little more space thanks to the AV Receiver and that the speakers and sub are wired. I can't do anything about the size, but there is money within your budget to deal with the wires.

I'd start off with the Monitor Audio MASS 5.1 speaker kit. At £500 it's a bit of a steal; these are Hi-Fi quality mini monitor speakers plus a sub so as well as doing movies they'll make a decent stab at music and personally I think they look very smart too.

Next; amplification. If space is at a premium then you could do far worse than choose the Marantz NR1506. This is half the height of a conventional AV receiver, so it's a fraction taller than your Sky box and yet manages to pack in all the features of the bigger products and with nearly as much power too at just £309. Where space allows a full height receiver then there's plenty of choice between £300 and £500. The Yamaha RXV677 (£330) would be worth shortlisting. If you hanker after more power then the Denon AVRX2200W is available for around £430 on its own or you can save a tonne extra going for the 2200 with the MASS 5.1 kit as a bundle at £800.

Next, we come to adding the Sonos functionality. That's easy; buy a Sonos Connect @ £280. That brings the total hardware spend to £1088. Add £100 and you'd still have over £250 left out of the £1500 budget to pay for someone to conceal the cables for you.
 
What a fantastic post! Thank you!!

Plenty in there to research on a lazy Sunday!!

I'll go through it all and see if anything suits me better, but if it's as simple as adding an optical switch, I might be tempted to stick with the Sonos.
I've got the budget for the 5.1, and then a speaker for every other room of the house, and after so much looking around I'm pretty set on the Sonos.

It's a brand new house, and I'm decorating now, I'm not up for channeling wires, and definitely no trunking.

In all honesty, I've always wanted a muti room speaker setup for music since I discovered AirPlay years ago and was blown away by it.
Now I'm lucky enough to have the budget to do something about it and so I've researched the ideal setup, which includes the 5.1 tv system. It might be overkill.

I've only ever used my TV's speakers until now and never had a problem with it.
I've no doubt a proper external setup is much better but I don't really know what I'm missing.
Perhaps just the Soundbar on the TV will be a huge step up, will extend the multi room system to the living room, and save me £800!

I'm torn, but I'll definitely look up the things you've suggested, I'm far from settled on any decision!
 
I wouldn't dismiss the trunking so fast, d-line do a decorative range. They have a quarter round to sit at the bottom of the skirting board to cover laminate expansion joint or a half round to sit above the skirting board.
 
I was going to come to the same conclusion as lucid - get a nice 5.1 setup and a universal remote, and then just use the extra zone outputs on the receiver to drive a Sonos Connect, as well as connecting it to an input.
 
Chris [BEANS];29146617 said:
I'll go through it all and see if anything suits me better, but if it's as simple as adding an optical switch, I might be tempted to stick with the Sonos.
I've got the budget for the 5.1, and then a speaker for every other room of the house, and after so much looking around I'm pretty set on the Sonos.
Click to expand...
I doubt you'd be disappointed with the Sonos gear. It is very good at what it does, and so far nothing I've seen in the market matches it for usability or has as broad a support for streamed services at or around the same price. Also, compared to the TV speakers then the difference in performance is huge, mahoosive, enormous :D However, given the concerns you raised in the OP then it's only proper to consider the alternatives too. At least then you can make your choice based on an accurate investigation of the options.

Chris [BEANS];29146617 said:
It's a brand new house, and I'm decorating now, I'm not up for channeling wires, and definitely no trunking.
Click to expand...
Well that's why I said there was money in the budget for dealing with the cables i.e. to pay a tradesman to come in and do the job to a professional standard. That way it's not 'you' that has to channel the walls :D

As I wrote before, the total hardware budget for an alternative solution including a Sonos Connect comes in at around £1100-£1150. Add cables at roughly £100 and you'd still have approximately £250 left to bring in a trades person. You'd also do away with the need for two mains sockets to be tied up at the rear half of the room and of course have no mains cables trailing for them either, plus you'd have more flexibility to have the surround speakers placed either accurately for sound performance or just "better" for aesthetics.

What's useful about a conversation like this is that it helps you see past the initial purchase of any equipment and, if you like, kind of time travel forwards a year to a point where you can look back. This is actually a really valuable insight; so instead of being there in a year after going it alone and saying "I wish someone had told me about..." or "I wish I had done X, Y and Z differently" what you have now is the collective experience of enthusiasts and professionals highlighting quite a few things that you'd never even consider otherwise until it's too late.

Chris [BEANS];29146617 said:
In all honesty, I've always wanted a muti room speaker setup for music since I discovered AirPlay years ago and was blown away by it.
Now I'm lucky enough to have the budget to do something about it and so I've researched the ideal setup, which includes the 5.1 tv system. It might be overkill.
Click to expand...
Whether or not 5.1 is overkill for you is really a value judgement. That's a different kind of decision from weighing up the technical pros and cons of equipment choices. Back to the technical though, the beauty of either solution is that they both offer full Sonos functionality, so as far as multiroom goes then they're both on level terms.
 
I'm just registering interest in this thread Chris. Let me know what you end up doing as I am in exactly the same position (similar equipment and new build property)
 
Chris [BEANS];29147240 said:
Hold on..... Does this mean the I can get 5.1 by connecting the PS4 to the TV via HDMI, or am I misunderstanding it??

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answ...our-playstation-4-to-output-dolby-digital-5.1
Click to expand...
No, unless your TV is an exception then the vast majority will always convert any multichannel audio via the HDMI inputs down to basic stereo. That means that the connection to the Playbar is sending just PCM stereo.

PCM stereo covers a "L+R" stereo signal and it also covers Dolby Surround where the stereo signal has a hidden centre and surround signal matrixed under the basic stereo signal. This is then decoded using Dolby ProLogic (A.K.A. DPL or more commonly now DPLII). This is not the same though as the discrete surround formats (DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA) where for 5.1 surround there are 6 individual separate (discrete) audio channels contained in the Bitstream digital signal.
 
Will do!

Love the answers I'm getting! Clearly there are way more options than I'd been considering!

My major sticking point is the wires, I appreciate that there's budget for that, but having them hidden in the walls means more decorating, and they'll be a permanent fixture and inflexible.
I've no intention to move things around, but I'm sure I will at some point....

On the subject of using the Sonos connect, I like it, so I get the whole Sonos experience and a better version of 5.1, genius!

Damn wires....!
 
lucid said:
No, unless your TV is an exception then the vast majority will always convert any multichannel audio via the HDMI inputs down to basic stereo. That means that the connection to the Playbar is sending just PCM stereo.

PCM stereo covers a "L+R" stereo signal and it also covers Dolby Surround where the stereo signal has a hidden centre and surround signal matrixed under the basic stereo signal. This is then decoded using Dolby ProLogic (A.K.A. DPL or more commonly now DPLII). This is not the same though as the discrete surround formats (DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA) where for 5.1 surround there are 6 individual separate (discrete) audio channels contained in the Bitstream digital signal.
Click to expand...

This is starting to go over my head!!

So, two options are:-

Sonos 5.1 with an optical switch.... Benefits are wireless, flexible, and aesthetically very nice. Downside is price, and not as high quality audio.

Dedicated 5.1 setup with Sonos Connect.... Cheaper, better quality audio, greater compatibility, but wires, all over the living room, or hidden and therefore permanent and inflexible.

I'll google the suggestions, and post back.

As it's of interest to others, once it's in I'll take a few snaps and let you all know exactly what I think.

I'm yet to get flooring put in, so there's no reason I couldn't lay the speaker cables underneath I guess.
If I ever need to move the speakers I can simply snip them where they come out at the skirting and seal over the top.
Wiring them up later can be a bridge I cross later.....
 
Just looking at the Monster Audio speakers, they look nice, but the benefit of the Sonos is the soundbar plays the role of the centre and the front side speakers.

That physical setup would suit my room better.
Difficult to explain, might take a pic.

Ultimately, I 'think' I'm going Sonos and an optical switch. Seems the neater solution which is quite important to me....
 
You could always go with a soundbar that is more like a sound projector with millions of speakers in, a sub, and then also bring in the Sonos Connect for integration with the rest of the house.

That should tick the neatness box and the not having to channel cables into walls box. Obviously you lose the rear speakers but if your requirements are just "better than the TV speakers" then it's going to be fantastic.
 
If you decide on Sonos, you can get the Dolby audio using an HDMI switch. I did a similar thing recently and it's all working. I didn't use the playbar though, instead I went for the canton dm75 but the problem with Dolby was the same.

Another good thug with sonos is you could just get a playbar and have a huge sound quality improvement without needing all the other speakers. Of course, if you really do want 5.1 then I think a proper receiver and speaker setup would be better, not least because sonos can't do DTS and for that money it's something I would want.
 
Forgot to mention, with these setups, a universal remote because really useful. I went with the Logitech harmony one.

I went with the monoprice HDMI switch which is highly recommended on various forums discussing the playbar and Dolby.
 
Chris [BEANS];29147377 said:
This is starting to go over my head!!
Click to expand...
It can feel like that once you scratch below the surface. But as I said before, there's a lot of use here that have either been there and done it ourselves, or we've answered countless questions from people who either didn't know or care to ask these questions when they were buying and subsequently found out about some or other shortcoming after they spent their money. I suppose the question should be whether you see yourself as an eyes-wide-open guy or a stick-your-head-in-the-sand guy.

Chris [BEANS];29147377 said:
So, two options are:-

Sonos 5.1 with an optical switch.... Benefits are wireless, flexible, and aesthetically very nice. Downside is price, and not as high quality audio.

Dedicated 5.1 setup with Sonos Connect.... Cheaper, better quality audio, greater compatibility, but wires, all over the living room, or hidden and therefore permanent and inflexible.
Click to expand...
I'd debate the flexible/inflexible points.

A Playbar fixes the centre and front speakers in one position. The wireless surround speakers aren't really wireless because they're tethered by a mains cable to each. I'm not sure I define either of those as as flexible as far as getting the best out of a 5.1 layout.

Similarly, the ideal location for all the speakers is given by the Dolby guidelines. The locations are set by angles from a central listening position. This means that no matter how large or small the room it should be possible to get the speakers in the right places; well, as long as they're not on windows or in doorways of course. :D The point is that sound is mixed with these speaker locations in mind; so the sound engineer places surround or panning effects based on the speakers being in those locations. When they are then you get the best reproduction of the surround effects in all directions; i.e. panning across the front, panning behind you, and movement front to back and vice versa.

The most common mistake is thinking that there are "rear" surround speakers in a 5.1 system. They're actually side surround speakers. They shouldn't be on the back wall at all. Nor should any of the speakers be in the corners of the room, but that's more about acoustics. There's also the height to consider. The side surrounds should be just above ear height when seated. Getting the speakers placed correctly helps the sound to snap in to far better focus. On that basis then there's really no need for 'flexibility' in the speaker cable positions. If the speakers are in the right places they're in the right places. That all there is to it really, so worrying about moving the speakers is wasted effort. Similarly using it as some kind of justification as to why wired speakers are a problem isn't at all logical.

Here's Dolby's guidelines for speaker layout.


Dolby%20speaker%20layout.png
 
Right.... I apologise for the millions of posts, but as has been expertly illustrated by lucid, this is a much deeper subject than it appears!
I've got to say, I love this forum, i really appreciate both the depth of knowledge and willingness to help of it's members.

I've decided on the straight up Sonos, full 5.1 setup. It's wireless, it's aesthetic, the physical setup (no front side speakers) suits my room best, and I'm no audiophile so it'll be a huge step up from just using the tv speakers. The music streamed will be from Apple Music so it won't be HD audio.
Most importantly, as far as I can tell, I will get 5.1 audio.

Unless of course any of what I've got below is wrong??

My TV outputs Dolby Digital:-

http://m.johnlewis.com/mt/www.johnl...ew-hd-and-built-in-wi-fi/p1919512#page_loaded

The Playbar will output 5.1 sound from a Dolby digital signal (I don't even know if signal is the right word!), and the PS4 will decode DTS to DD itself...

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/dts-dolby-51-on-playbar-2015-edition-6731191

The only 5.1 I need is from the PS4. I use it for Blu Ray and Netflix. I don't care about 5.1 coming from the sky box.

Plus, if this fails, as lucid points out in the very first reply here, I can always get an optical switch....

I will update this as soon as it's all bought, but I'll be checking back in case anyone's spotted any glaring errors?
 
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