Sony or Nikon ? (I can't think of a proper title)

D.P. said:
And if you actually visit any if those stores they say things like:


Adorama think they can ship in a few days.


Anyway, that just highlights the confusion and the issues that Sony have. They should have announced the camera world wide and set shipping dates for the US, explaining stock issues. Instead someone like me who closely follows the camera news doesn't even realize they made a US release.
Not the best way to get market share.
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I think you should take this one on the chin. Everyone goofs now and again, and in this case I think it's you rather than Sony. There shouldn't be any confusion when you see a listing for a new camera that says 'out of stock'. It's pretty self explanatory.
 
An Exception said:
I think you should take this one on the chin. Everyone goofs now and again, and in this case I think it's you rather than Sony. There shouldn't be any confusion when you see a listing for a new camera that says 'out of stock'. It's pretty self explanatory.
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I fully admit that I didn't realize it was officially released in the US. All I remember was all the fuss when it was announced with a Japanese release and no US release. People were wondering if the US would get it at all or if it would go the way of the Canon EOS-M 2, or if it does come to the US if it will be in stock before Christmas or get announced at CES or later in the year. And FAIK, it has shipped yet in the US, you can only preorder.

This is the last thing I read about it.
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/why-announce-a-camera-you.html

Negatively publicity at work.
 
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Just sounds like TH being a D*** to me. Maybe next time he'l choose to hold off his tirade.
I see these short product cycles as a good thing for Sony (Sucks for resale value though). Eventually they will have technological superiority and become market leader. Nikon/Canon will become niche, and will be forced to trade on value unless they pull their socks up. I'd say Canon and Nikon have another 24 months before they start to become 2nd rate.
 
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D.P. said:
And if you actually visit any if those stores they say things like:


Adorama think they can ship in a few days.


Anyway, that just highlights the confusion and the issues that Sony have. They should have announced the camera world wide and set shipping dates for the US, explaining stock issues. Instead someone like me who closely follows the camera news doesn't even realize they made a US release.
Not the best way to get market share.
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Huh? You said it wasn't even released?! It not only has been released, but it's currently sold out at a lot of outlets. Sony US did have them back in stock, I don't know if they have sold out again. They announced it in Japan, then 6 days later details of its early December release in the US. You can't have followed the news that closely for something that has been very popular to get hold of before Christmas?! :D ;P
 
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D.P. said:
The thing is the A7 bodies are getting heavier. We now hit 600g for the A7II. And as I said above, you need to buy 3 more batteries to get the same battery life as a DSLR meaning the weight difference is now down to like 100g compared to a D750 or 5DmkIII.

Then you factor in the 70-200mm f/4.0 weighs 100g more than the canon equivalent and the same as the Nikon (not surprising). The Sony is actually a little larger than the Canon as well. Therefore a 5DmkIII + 70-200mm f/4.0 with enough batteries for the A7 to keep up will weigh the same amount. I prefer the 5DmkII ergonomics over the Sony A7 cameras although I haven't tried the A7II.
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I already said that I would have to compromise on AF lens size. The A7 will still be lighter in the hand which matters more, a couple of batteries in my pocket wouldn't even be noticed. I dont like the A7 ergonomics either, I did say an A7 sized camera... I'm more interested in what Nikon/Canon will bring to the table (eventually!) they should be able to bring a more complete system to the table. For the meantime though I'll keep using Fuji and keeping an eye on what it is Sony bring in the new year :)
 
Rojin said:
I already said that I would have to compromise on AF lens size. The A7 will still be lighter in the hand which matters more, a couple of batteries in my pocket wouldn't even be noticed. I dont like the A7 ergonomics either, I did say an A7 sized camera... I'm more interested in what Nikon/Canon will bring to the table (eventually!) they should be able to bring a more complete system to the table. For the meantime though I'll keep using Fuji and keeping an eye on what it is Sony bring in the new year :)
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Certainly interesting times in the next few years.

Sony is very close to nailing it but not quite and they need the lenses.
As I said above I think it is a mistake that sony didn't make the A7 camera use the alpha mount lens, then An Exception would have his 35mm and 85mm f/1.4 lenses, you would have the 70-200mm f/2.8 and 100-400mm f/5.6 as well.
 
Rojin said:
Huh? You said it wasn't even released?! It not only has been released, but it's currently sold out at a lot of outlets. Sony US did have them back in stock, I don't know if they have sold out again. They announced it in Japan, then 6 days later details of its early December release in the US. You can't have followed the news that closely for something that has been very popular to get hold of before Christmas?! :D ;P
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The last I head it hadn't been released in the US, only japan, and lot of people were wondering if would make it to the US and if it did if it would be before Christmas or later in the new year.

Yeah, I was wrong and in the meantime Sony officially released it and select online shops have opened pre-orders. I've been extremely busy at work and I missed the US release.

Non of this goes against my point that the launch was a confusing mess because initially it was japan only, not a world wide launch with Japan stock I editable and the rest to follow.
 
I agree the A7 can be large with lenses like the 70-200, but the key point for me is it can be tiny as well, i can fit it in my coat pocket with the 35. Im looking forward to seeing what they do with the A9.
 
For me the problem with Sony is the lack of perceived support.

The technology wise they are great as D.P says, but no-one trusts them to stick with a product, they are mass market electronics manufacturer after all so it's just not in their nature.

D.P. said:
Non of this goes against my point that the launch was a confusing mess because initially it was japan only, not a world wide launch with Japan stock I editable and the rest to follow.
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This is common with pretty much everything that launches. Apple products, Microsoft products, Google products, TV shows, Movies etc.. Very rarely does a product launch in every market at the same time.
The A7 and Nex/Alpha range is good, but the usability could be 100 times better. For example people have been crying out for the ability to able to manually set the minimum shutter speed when using aperture priority. 2 firmware updates later and they haven't done it. Other have been screaming for the ability to be able to fully turn off the LCD (save battery life) again what seems like a simple software fix, and sony haven't done it.

Instead what they've done is just release another model. They just don't listen to their customers. Now compare that with Fuji who initially were poor in offering their customers what they wanted, but have come on leaps and bounds recently.

On thing I will say though, is they are doing well with sticking to their lens road map for the E mount, and in the A7II have recognised that uses are/want to shoot with alternative glass.
 
Still loving my Sony A7, its the most fun I've had with photography in a while. I think you'd be pretty comfortable with the ergonomics, Raymond. Having dials for aperture, exp comp and iso is nice. At very least you could probably use one for your tilt shift like you do the 5D2?

As far as lenses go, well theres the Zeiss branded lenses and the Sony G lenses. I have the Zeiss 35mm 2.8 and the 55mm 1.8. They're both incredibly sharp, easily as good as any other pro glass. They have a metal body and focus by wire but feel pretty nice although the 55mm is clearly the better lens, its just feels amazing in hand.

I think the Zeiss 35mm 1.4 is coming out in March, after trying the current FE Zeiss primes I'm confident it will be amazing but I hear rumors of between £1400 and £1800 cost.

You could look at it this way, at least the A7 could replace a 5D2 for tilt shift duties whereas a Nikon you'd have to buy at least one lens as well. Lets face it though, you probably know everything about Nikon already and the A7 is a more exciting purchase than any Nikon!

Saying that, I still don't think A7 series are ready for weddings, the AF is unreliable compared to a dslr, shocking battery life as well. The raw files are completely different from what I'm used too as well, they seem very saturated from the start and AWB is off so you'd have more post work there. Also, the highlight recovery is not as good as I'd hoped and as soon as you go above say 800 ISO I find the shadow recovery to be better on my D700!

I'm photographing a friends wedding in March. I plan on use my D700 with 28mm 1.8 as the main camera with A7 + 55mm 1.8 as well, so I'll report back then.
 
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I too find that the RAWs are too saturated for my liking. Especially the reds. Nothing a colour checker wouldn't sort, but a pain nonetheless.

That being said, Raymond's style, particularly his wedding photos, tend to burst with colour, so it might suit him well.

The A7 tends to underexpose as it is better at recovering shadows than highlights. I find the zebra a bit too pessemistic though.

If using any adapter, be aware that you won't have an AF assist light, which might cause you problems as wedding receptions and clubs. Even if you have the sony adapter and a flash that has it's own AF assist light, it won't work without proper E mount lenses.
 
For me

Sony A7

Pro - It's smaller body, something different, it is mirrorless (different), tilt screen
Con - not better than 5D2, limited lenses, adaptor expensive (with not great result and it removes the smaller benefit with a 24-70/2.8 on the end of it), it seems out of date already.

Nikon D800

Pro - It's better, in every way, won't depreciate as much, better sensor

Con - it's big, it is £500 more expensive, need new glass (although i will only get a 35mm)

I really have to think hard.
 
What are you trying to do Raymond?

A) Are you trying to replace your existing setup?

B) Are you just after something to carry around when you're out and about?

If it is A) as you already have a Canon set up, do Wedding Photography, probably would like to stick with full frame and have interchangeable lenses, then Nikon.

Nikon have a full range of lenses for all eventualities. They good range of flash guns and accessories. Their current flagships are very very nice.

If it is B) If you're looking for something small to carry around and aren't bothered about masses of lenses and aren't going to use it for your Wedding Photography, then I would go Sony, Fuji or Olympus.

Then there is option C), which involves no changeable lenses and some really nice Cameras - Fuji X100T or Sony RX1 or RX1R :)
 
If sony had 4 decent pancake lenses for the a7 24, 35, 50 and 85 that were f2.8 or faster and didn't cost the Earth (think canon 40mm f2.8 arm) it would a be a great compact alternative to an slr setup as it is the lens line up is limited and hamstrung and the only glass you'd want has a zeiss badge Sonia massively over priced! Unless your into old glass and MF the system simply isn't mature enough for me!

Have you considered the fuji offerings? Do none of them tempt you? They seem to be building a credible system in which they are investing heavily!
 
If you're looking for something small to have a play with have you considered an X100s/t?
 
Andy90 said:
What are you trying to do Raymond?

A) Are you trying to replace your existing setup?

B) Are you just after something to carry around when you're out and about?

If it is A) as you already have a Canon set up, do Wedding Photography, probably would like to stick with full frame and have interchangeable lenses, then Nikon.

Nikon have a full range of lenses for all eventualities. They good range of flash guns and accessories. Their current flagships are very very nice.

If it is B) If you're looking for something small to carry around and aren't bothered about masses of lenses and aren't going to use it for your Wedding Photography, then I would go Sony, Fuji or Olympus.

Then there is option C), which involves no changeable lenses and some really nice Cameras - Fuji X100T or Sony RX1 or RX1R :)
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This single camera will not replace my Canon gear.

I want something I can use outside my wedding stuff. The Sony seems perfect but I feel like i am behind on the tech before I even buy it, the Nikon is okay but a bit big?

Fuji, not sure which one tbh, the XT1 might be worth a look at I guess.
 
Raymond Lin said:
This single camera will not replace my Canon gear.

I want something I can use outside my wedding stuff. The Sony seems perfect but I feel like i am behind on the tech before I even buy it, the Nikon is okay but a bit big?

Fuji, not sure which one tbh, the XT1 might be worth a look at I guess.
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So something smaller, with interchangeable lenses then - most people will say Sony, Fuji, Olympus or Panasonic - but....

Have you considered the Canon EOS 100D, coupled with the Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM lens or the Canon EF-s 24mm f/2.8 STM lens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BG5wq-CXyQ

Advantages are that you can use your stable of L series lenses on the 100D when you want to. It is small and lightweight. You don't have to 'learn' another menu system. You can use your flashguns with it. If you go with the 40mm f/2.8 it will also fit your Canon EOS 5D MKII and MKIII's.

Edit - The Canon 100D is down to £359 atm (check Camera Price Buster) and it is also subject to a £30 cashback + free wifi SD card in the Canon Winter Promotion. The Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 is currently £147 with a £25 cashback from Canon.
 
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