Sore / Stiff back after weights
- Thread starter Converge
- Start date
What about when your training alone, and the squat rack is face on to the mirror?
As a fully trained individual you must understand the importance of retaining good posture/position during exercise? But seriously are you trying to say that the mirrors in commercial gyms are accessible and usable for the purpose they are supposed to be there for, over a video camera?
1 you should never train alone..
2 if the squat rack is face on ideal you can at least check one visual plane (saggital)
3 yes and so they damn well should be a camera is also a really good training aid but it can only show you waht you are doing after the performance unless projected onto a screen in from of the performer ( hence a mirroe is preferble for real time viewing) how many gyms do you know that film users ?
we actually do that with athletes for reflection on performance sessions but for normal training mirrors ftw
and a coach who knows the score also ofc cant beat that ..
added we digress tho and my original answer in this thread to the question is
D.O.M.S delayed onset muscle soreness or trauma caused by an inherent weakness / bad form
and i wouldnt prescribe any specific stretches or rehab exercises without a proper analysis so go see a physio first ..
Last edited:
Well this has gotten a little silly.
The bottom line is that mirrors are useful, but they have their limits. The biggest problem is distraction; the amount of visual feedback you get is hard to process while you're also trying to keep your form tight. Some people find this counter-productive, and for the majority using a mirror effectively is certainly a learned skill. Then there are angle issues too... etc. etc.
Soreness in the low back is frequently a sign of problems, and I'd suggests it is always a reason to check form and relevant mobility.
The bottom line is that mirrors are useful, but they have their limits. The biggest problem is distraction; the amount of visual feedback you get is hard to process while you're also trying to keep your form tight. Some people find this counter-productive, and for the majority using a mirror effectively is certainly a learned skill. Then there are angle issues too... etc. etc.
Soreness in the low back is frequently a sign of problems, and I'd suggests it is always a reason to check form and relevant mobility.
lol no one said mirrors for all occasions just like no one said cameras are ****..
but show me a good coach who says mirrors are not a good coaching aid
anything you can use to assist is of benefit mirrors as cameras assist
the more the better.
mirrors in them selves do not make things worse..
anything can make things worse if used inccorectly ofc its peoples interpretation that will make things worse not the mirror or the camera etc
but the inference earlier in this thread was that mmirrors are a waste of time.
that is so wrong any visual help will be of benefit. its a form of communication that will give instant feedback where a recorded image will not even tho they are priceless they do not give that instant feedback
and again how many gyms do you attend that give you a camera to film yourselves training?
how many have mirrors ?
i ask why would the biggest problem be distration with a mirror any more than with a camera ?
the main question of this thread is answered here
D.O.M.S delayed onset muscle soreness or trauma caused by an inherent weakness / bad form
and get proper advice from a physio NOT a forum
preferably someone with a background in sports physio or a specialist in back or lumbar / thorasic areas sounds like it t1 to l5 but cant say for sure u need a proper examination it could be reffered pain
and there could also be an inherant muskulo skeletal problem for various reasons
if you want to discuss the particular benefits of mirrors in a gym then we can continue
my argument is all forms of information the more the merrier are beneficial but to suggest that mirrors are bad or make things worse and as others have indicated they are a waste of time is plain wrong
anything if can used badly can be unsafe unnefective
but mirrors are not in that category people who use them wrong may wellbe..
really ..............
but show me a good coach who says mirrors are not a good coaching aid
anything you can use to assist is of benefit mirrors as cameras assist
the more the better.
mirrors in them selves do not make things worse..
anything can make things worse if used inccorectly ofc its peoples interpretation that will make things worse not the mirror or the camera etc
but the inference earlier in this thread was that mmirrors are a waste of time.
that is so wrong any visual help will be of benefit. its a form of communication that will give instant feedback where a recorded image will not even tho they are priceless they do not give that instant feedback
and again how many gyms do you attend that give you a camera to film yourselves training?
how many have mirrors ?
i ask why would the biggest problem be distration with a mirror any more than with a camera ?
the main question of this thread is answered here
D.O.M.S delayed onset muscle soreness or trauma caused by an inherent weakness / bad form
and get proper advice from a physio NOT a forum
preferably someone with a background in sports physio or a specialist in back or lumbar / thorasic areas sounds like it t1 to l5 but cant say for sure u need a proper examination it could be reffered pain
and there could also be an inherant muskulo skeletal problem for various reasons
if you want to discuss the particular benefits of mirrors in a gym then we can continue
my argument is all forms of information the more the merrier are beneficial but to suggest that mirrors are bad or make things worse and as others have indicated they are a waste of time is plain wrong
anything if can used badly can be unsafe unnefective
but mirrors are not in that category people who use them wrong may wellbe..
really ..............
Last edited:
craarc, I clarified my stance to say they're "not useless" to "not very good".
You haven't addressed any of the problems with mirrors that have been raised. I know of a few well known coaches that I could list that don't like mirrors for the lifters, but then I too would be making the Appeal to Authority fallacy. I'm trying to stick with the arguments and points being made, not appealing to authority. I'm sure you were and still are a strong and aesthetic lifter.
You haven't addressed any of the problems with mirrors that have been raised. I know of a few well known coaches that I could list that don't like mirrors for the lifters, but then I too would be making the Appeal to Authority fallacy. I'm trying to stick with the arguments and points being made, not appealing to authority. I'm sure you were and still are a strong and aesthetic lifter.
i accept the fact mirrors have limitations especially if only using one. but the inference of the thraed in certain parts was that they were not beneficial . even if that was not said directly.
and to say that a mirror is best used when looking sideways at it is valid. and i would not recomend that ofc. in fact a mirror can only be used tottaly really saftley when the plane is facing it directly. and i would not ofc recomend looking in a mirror at 90 degress to the lifters view thats a given 9unless under special circumstances)
the problem is the inference in the thread was that mirrors are not usefull and that is my fundemantal objection to that view.
my argument is that mirrors are indeed very usefull but as in anything its only usefull if used correctly
i use mirrors daily to study form and movement body mechanics kineisiology etc etc. and they are an invaluable aid.
i can see for instance when standing beside or behind a subject with the use of a mirror. lets say behind a subject both views frontal and rear. now i can reord that with a camera ofc and thats of benefit but i cant see that in real time i have to go sit and watch it.
with a mirror i can get the dierct view from behind and the reflected view from in front without moving as i would havr to do without a mirror in an instant
i use mirrors day in day out with rehab and training and my staff do also i have never had one bad comment about using mirrors
that is the advantage,
so what are the negatives, distraction , for me or the lifter ?
the argument of a mirror at right angles to the lifters plane ?
i cant see any negatives from having a mirror in use in any training facility
in fact i would like to see the arguments of coaches who say there are negatives....that outweigh any positives.
and to say that a mirror is best used when looking sideways at it is valid. and i would not recomend that ofc. in fact a mirror can only be used tottaly really saftley when the plane is facing it directly. and i would not ofc recomend looking in a mirror at 90 degress to the lifters view thats a given 9unless under special circumstances)
the problem is the inference in the thread was that mirrors are not usefull and that is my fundemantal objection to that view.
my argument is that mirrors are indeed very usefull but as in anything its only usefull if used correctly
i use mirrors daily to study form and movement body mechanics kineisiology etc etc. and they are an invaluable aid.
i can see for instance when standing beside or behind a subject with the use of a mirror. lets say behind a subject both views frontal and rear. now i can reord that with a camera ofc and thats of benefit but i cant see that in real time i have to go sit and watch it.
with a mirror i can get the dierct view from behind and the reflected view from in front without moving as i would havr to do without a mirror in an instant
i use mirrors day in day out with rehab and training and my staff do also i have never had one bad comment about using mirrors
that is the advantage,
so what are the negatives, distraction , for me or the lifter ?
the argument of a mirror at right angles to the lifters plane ?
i cant see any negatives from having a mirror in use in any training facility
in fact i would like to see the arguments of coaches who say there are negatives....that outweigh any positives.
Last edited:
Erm.
That's the point. People can use mirrors and see their form get worse/not improve. This can be seen every day in your standard commercial gym.
All you're saying is that in an ideal scenario mirrors are a good thing, such as when you or another coach is supervising the athlete. Nobody disagreed with that.
It's pretty common for coaches to dislike the use of mirrors in certain situations for fairly obvious reasons, so I'm not sure why you are you're rejecting the idea so vehemently.
Edit: didn't see your most recent post until I'd written that.
If the athlete is on their own, as is very common for your average Joe Gym guy:
- distraction, as mentioned. This is particularly a problem if the athlete is learning a complex motor pattern. As I also mentioned, in some situations the athlete can learn to deal with the extra information.
- if the athlete needs to turn their head during the lift to view the mirror
- the athlete may have no idea what visual queues he is looking for, or what they mean when he sees them, or what to do about them.
- slightly reduced ability to acquire proprioceptive feedback, although this is situation and athlete dependant
Last edited:
oh dear
If the athlete is on their own, as is very common for your average Joe Gym guy:
- distraction, as mentioned. This is particularly a problem if the athlete is learning a complex motor pattern. As I also mentioned, in some situations the athlete can learn to deal with the extra information.
- if the athlete needs to turn their head during the lift to view the mirror
- the athlete may have no idea what visual queues he is looking for, or what they mean when he sees them, or what to do about them.
- slightly reduced ability to acquire proprioceptive feedback, although this is situation and athlete dependant
in answer to
1 no athlete or gym user should be training on their own .......no one should let them be or they themselves should not get distracted, especially when learning a complex motor pattern...
2 i have said in the saggital plane already so by that inferance they should be looking directly at the mirror ideally to see that movement of center ( except for exceptional circumstances)
3 again no athlete should be training alone. see pt 1 above if he is that is bad coaching or bad gym management. typical of gyms and fitness centres etc in the public domain.
4 proprioreceptive neuromuscular feedback and facilition is is not reduced by visual stimulae on the contrary the more stimulae from a variety of sources enhances pnf and bio feedback.
tbh i dont think we will agree on this so you carry on doing your thing i will carry on teaching my way.
but im glad there are conflicting views or we wouldnt move forward
If the athlete is on their own, as is very common for your average Joe Gym guy:
- distraction, as mentioned. This is particularly a problem if the athlete is learning a complex motor pattern. As I also mentioned, in some situations the athlete can learn to deal with the extra information.
- if the athlete needs to turn their head during the lift to view the mirror
- the athlete may have no idea what visual queues he is looking for, or what they mean when he sees them, or what to do about them.
- slightly reduced ability to acquire proprioceptive feedback, although this is situation and athlete dependant
in answer to
1 no athlete or gym user should be training on their own .......no one should let them be or they themselves should not get distracted, especially when learning a complex motor pattern...
2 i have said in the saggital plane already so by that inferance they should be looking directly at the mirror ideally to see that movement of center ( except for exceptional circumstances)
3 again no athlete should be training alone. see pt 1 above if he is that is bad coaching or bad gym management. typical of gyms and fitness centres etc in the public domain.
4 proprioreceptive neuromuscular feedback and facilition is is not reduced by visual stimulae on the contrary the more stimulae from a variety of sources enhances pnf and bio feedback.
tbh i dont think we will agree on this so you carry on doing your thing i will carry on teaching my way.
but im glad there are conflicting views or we wouldnt move forward
Last edited:
I think your position on this is slightly tainted by your job/experience. Not everyone has the ability to directly train with another person. I don't train with someone else, by all means there are others at the gym when I train, but no one specifically there training what I train and watching my lifts in detail.
Your points about not training alone, while spot on, just don't work in the real world. So with that in mind, mirrors are only useful to view yourself on one plane without compromising your position to any such degree that could affect your lift.
I will just say as well I like the way you are avoiding the comments about how trying to get anything other then a head on view in a mirror can have an impact on form and be a negative thing for the lifter to do.
Man of Honour
I think it's clear that caarc has a different training style / background and ethos. I don't think we'll agree.
None of us are "atheletes" we're a bunch of guys who love going to the gym, some of us to do gayness, some of us lift shirts and some of us to keep their ursus-like power and strength (weightlifters). Ok and a few of us just to keep fit too...
The guy has a sore back - it's been recommended that it's likely to be owing to poor form. Sure, it could be DOMS too. However, rather than jump to a root cause, we have many potential causes to investigate. Until we can see his form we won't be able to tell. Hence why video is absolutely crucial.
None of us are "atheletes" we're a bunch of guys who love going to the gym, some of us to do gayness, some of us lift shirts and some of us to keep their ursus-like power and strength (weightlifters). Ok and a few of us just to keep fit too...
The guy has a sore back - it's been recommended that it's likely to be owing to poor form. Sure, it could be DOMS too. However, rather than jump to a root cause, we have many potential causes to investigate. Until we can see his form we won't be able to tell. Hence why video is absolutely crucial.
Caporegime
Far too much talk about mirrors tbh. Gays!
Soldato
Firstly if you get the same kind of condition/ complaint when not training then I would suggest you see your GP as it would be conceivable that you could have a small (stress) fracture. If it is not related to the above I would certainly look at your form, the weight you are lifting, the volume along with any other associated problems you could think of. You do not mention whether the stiffness or soreness is related to a specific or set of exercises? Regarding form there is nothing wrong with referring to a mirror to correct it if it can be spotted. You might also be suffering from myofacial trigger points which can be treated by massage and a hot soak. Still, it would have been better if you could have been more specific.
Soldato
I was going to say, wasn't the reason the camera was mentioned, was so that he can post it here and have people with more experience give him some pointers and help his form.
Man of Honour
Ultimately, we can't do a prognosis, and we're just guessing. He needs to see a professional, or a doctor to address any issues. We can't do anything more than that.