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Soundbars or true surround?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema & Hi-Fi' started by stoofa, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. ubern00b

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 3,505

    Yea the virtual crap is just that, crap. You need a soundbar with physical rear speakers.
     
  2. hornetstinger

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2016

    Posts: 5,851

    Bk subs lack sub sonic filters, for a ported sub for movies this is a must if you like it loud and clean sounding.
     
  3. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 30,177

    what ones did you listen to in your home?

    Anything below a YSP2700 isn't worth comparing to a 5.1 system. Which is a £600 soundbar but on launch was more like £800.

    Your view is probably true when talking about £500 and less soundbars but if you haven't used high end ones it's completely wrong. The N950 is £1500 and is arguably better than a 5.1 system because it does ATMOS and with physical speakers too as well as multiple speakers.

    Having owned 3 different yamaha soundbars I know exactly where in the lineup it goes from being okay (better than tv speakers but probably not better than 2.0 physical speakers) to good to amazing.

    it's like saying all laptops are crap. when your budget is only £250 and your basing your views on them vs a desktop pc. £250 can only afford crap laptops. Spend £1000+ you get a very good laptop. the same can be said for soundbars. even those with multiple tiny speakers. the YSP 2700 using them and it's very good.
     
  4. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 30,177

    it's not crap. it just doesn't work as well. i've been amazed at times i could swear the sound came from behind me or from my side. i even turned and looked. yet it was the soundbar bouncing it off walls.
     
  5. hornetstinger

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2016

    Posts: 5,851

    I'd rather have a good 5.1 or 7.1 than lesser quality atmos.

    Atmos doesn't mea it's better it just means it has support for it, or natively has amps and speakers for it.

    When it comes to soundbars I wouldn't put too much thought on having atmos.
     
  6. Jamesyboyjim

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 30, 2008

    Posts: 3,014

    Location: South

    I've certainly never owned a really high end soundbar, hence why I said 'mid range' and 'in my experience'. :)
     
  7. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    The n950 has upfiring modules, it’s nothing like true atmos but it does create a nice big soundstage.
     
  8. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 30,177

    same goes for most atmos speakers tbh.

    people buy the KEF's up-firing ones and put them on top of their floorstanders.
     
  9. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    True. For general TV and occasional films a decent soundbar is perfect TBH. You can get better of course but it comes at a cost which many won’t like - large AVRs, cable runs, huge subwoofers, large speakers etc.
     
  10. TheVoice

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 15, 2005

    Posts: 20,557

    Location: Glasgow

    Samsung's soundbars are good, I've got the HW-MS650 with the rear speaker kit and it's great. I had the Yamaha YSP1600 for a short time before it, and was mostly very underwhelmed by it. Nice bass, but worse than the Samsung in most other aspects; the virtual rear surround very seldom worked convincingly for me, and the speakers all being positioned in the centre meant it often felt like you were listening to a single speaker rather than separate channels.
     
  11. pioneer2000

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 20, 2004

    Posts: 5,325

    Location: Essex

    Dolby themselves suggest that they're effective at reproducing Atmos , so nothing particularly wrong with up-firing speakers if setup correctly.
     
  12. hornetstinger

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2016

    Posts: 5,851


    Well they will say that won't they lol.
    Unlike to stay dont get atmos unless you take a saw to your ceiling chopping up four big holes than routing cable
     
  13. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 30,177

    Having owned the YSP1600 and YSP 2700 it's like comparing a focus to a 5 series. the 1600 is a low to mid end soundbar.
     
  14. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    Dolby themselves also need to market their tech to the widest possible audience. Think about it, bouncing sound off of a ceiling is unpredictable at best.
     
  15. kitfit1

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2003

    Posts: 3,211

    Location: Stourport-On-Severn

    Actually, bouncing sound is one of THE most predictable ways of focusing sound there is. Just think about it, if it wasn't predictable then NO soundbar would work. Top end soundbars absolutely do work and all the surround effects come from predictable algorithms within the setup process.
     
  16. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    Soundbars used to be crap, most still are. They only create a true sound bubble now when they use rear speakers. They use several small speakers along the length of the bar to create a wide soundstage but bouncing sound is unreliable, and it muddies the clarity of the sound as well. There is a reason why dedicated rooms try to limit sound reflection.

    Bouncing sound will differ from room to room, unless every room is setup like a test bench then it is unpredictable.
     
  17. kitfit1

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2003

    Posts: 3,211

    Location: Stourport-On-Severn

    I think you are missing the point of a soundbar in the first place. Most peeps that have them, do so because they can't or don't want to have cabling to rears. By the same token, peeps that have soundbars don't have dedicated rooms either................if they did they would obviously have a full surround system in the first place.
    My YSP 2700 is in a very large living room and gives me the feeling of full surround when watching a bluray. But it's not the most important sound system in my room, my hi fi is and that's much more important to me than surround from the tv.
     
  18. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    You totally missed my point on the sound reflections, I wasn’t saying people would build a dedicated room for a soundbar.... obviously.
     
  19. kitfit1

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2003

    Posts: 3,211

    Location: Stourport-On-Severn

    I actually didn't miss your point at all. I spent the first 20 years of my working life from the age of 16 as a sound engineer. Mostly working live gigs, so i am fully aware of the effect of sound reflections. There was never one live gig i ever did without taking those reflection into account. In fact, anyone that has ever done a live gig in the Albert Hall in the last 35/40 years has absolutely had to take account of and plan for those sound reflections.

    The thing is though, good quality sound bars use algorithms within a room at setup to take that into account. If your only experience of a soundbar is a cheap/mid range.......................................then don't push it onto high end bars, because that just dosn't wash.
     
  20. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,981

    Location: Hampshire

    The thing is no matter how 'high end' you cant reflect rear sound effects with any accuracy from the front soundstage. It just doesnt work, but if your happy with that limitation then its fine.