Sous-vide cooking and vacuum sealing

glitch · 27 Oct 2011 at 11:20

I'm getting increasingly tempted to scratch a sous-vide itch and add the SousVide Supreme SVS10L to my kitchen, but the vacuum-sealing aspect of sous-vide cooking is the main concern I have about such a device being a useful addition and not a gadget on par with that sodding panini toaster I've got languishing at the back of one of my kitchen cupboards.

The thing is, what I don't want is a vacuum sealer with single-use bags as I've got a feeling the expense will quickly start to mount up. And I'm also not so sure about the sensitivity of the products aimed at the home market - the commercial-grade ones are very good at keeping delicate foods from getting squished when the air is extracted.

I've seen various reviews of the SVS10L that mention the Reynolds Handi Vac as a suitable alternative to a food-sealer (specifically mentioning the resealable nature of the bags as an advantage) but as far as I can tell, it's not available in the UK and the alternatives we do get are a bit rubbish.

But having just seen this thing on the Lakeland website, I'm tempted to give it a go. The bags seem sturdy and reusable, and being a hand-operated pump it ought to be easy enough to be careful with what you're up to.

Now, I appreciate that there will be very few people stupid enough to go to the expense of owning a sous-vide system, but do any of you have experiences with vacuum sealing systems and can offer some opinions?

randomshenans · 27 Oct 2011 at 12:13

Mate there is a water bath on the net for like 199 which I want to give a shot as it looks like it'd be pretty good and half the price. Lots of folk trying it, but "unbranded".

With the bags, it's something that's come up a fair bit, are you on twitter? Some people on their, namely chefs I could point you to for what they have done to combat this. Or www.thestaffcanteen.co.uk has a wealth of knowledge and chefs on there all willing to help people.

I haven't had to tackle this yet as not put my hand in my pocket. As soon as I get out of temp accommodation and in to my own place again though I'll be on it.

I also want a pacojet and thermomix

haha

http://www.pacojet.com/en

http://www.ukthermomix.com/

glitch · 27 Oct 2011 at 12:30

QuickLink said:
Mate there is a water bath on the net for like 199 which I want to give a shot as it looks like it'd be pretty good and half the price. Lots of folk trying it, but "unbranded".

Do you mean the ones from Ultrafresh? I've looked into them, but it's just an old model of lab waterbath that someone has tarted up a bit and is selling as suitable for the kitchen.

If you know where to look, the SousVide Supreme can be had for a fair bit less than the RRP and it does seem to be the most affordable home solution for sous-vide cooking this side of buying a commercial-grade model from a liquidation sale.

QuickLink said:
With the bags, it's something that's come up a fair bit, are you on twitter? Some people on their, namely chefs I could point you to for what they have done to combat this.

Not on a personal level, but I am there in various official capacities. Can you link me to any feeds that are worth looking at?

QuickLink said:
Or www.thestaffcanteen.co.uk has a wealth of knowledge and chefs on there all willing to help people.

Not seen that site before, so I'll have a mooch around - thanks for that.

QuickLink said:
I also want a pacojet and thermomix haha

http://www.pacojet.com/en

http://www.ukthermomix.com/

I'm not bothered by the Pacojet but a Thermomix is my next purchase. I'm borrowing an older version at the moment but with any luck the TM31 will be in my kitchen by Christmas.

Mr_Orange · 27 Oct 2011 at 12:38

I might have the wrong end of the stick here but what separates this from boil in a bag?

EDIT: Found the answer with google-fu. It's a vacuum slow cook version.

glitch · 27 Oct 2011 at 12:56

Mr_Orange said:
I might have the wrong end of the stick here but what separates this from boil in a bag?

Not much really, when all is said and done, but the biggest difference would be keeping the bag at a constant temperature - something all but impossible with the 'pan of boiling water on hob' method.

There are an increasingly large number of foods coming vac-packed from the supermarket, so I'm really hoping we're going to see an explosion in home sous-vide cooking. Some are likening it to the 21st Century version of the microwave, which was another product that started off as being eye-wateringly expensive for early adopters but soon became an affordable product.

Speaking of which, Heston Blumenthal was working on an affordable version that was destined to hit the shops last year, but it seems to have been shelved for various reasons. It looks like this SousVide Supreme is the first 'affordable' version that actually works - it's just a shame about the pricing at the moment.

randomshenans · 27 Oct 2011 at 13:03

Indeed it was that one, dont get me wrong the supreme looks a hell of a lot better, though!

Might have to have a look out for one. The best thing to do would be to post on the staff canteen as everyone I follow on twitter is on there as well, all the chefs, some with incredible knowledge on the art of cooking, what temps for what etc. It's amazing.

glitch · 27 Oct 2011 at 13:16

QuickLink said:
Indeed it was that one, dont get me wrong the supreme looks a hell of a lot better, though!

I spent a fair bit of time looking into the Ultrafresh one before deciding that it was just a lab-grade unstirred waterbath that was being cleverly marketed.

I'm sure it's usable, but the footprint wasn't suitable for my kitchen and something about it made me think it was a bit Mickey Mouse.

QuickLink said:
Might have to have a look out for one. The best thing to do would be to post on the staff canteen as everyone I follow on twitter is on there as well, all the chefs, some with incredible knowledge on the art of cooking, what temps for what etc. It's amazing.

Are you in the industry yourself of just an enthusiastic home-cook?

Jonny69 · 27 Oct 2011 at 13:42

If you just want to give it a go, have you tried the cold box full of hot water trick?

glitch · 27 Oct 2011 at 14:23

I have indeed. I was hugely sceptical of the whole idea but it turned out to be surprisingly good, although not very accurate and a complete pain to fill up.

Although the bodged zip-lock bag approach wasn't as good as using a proper vac-sealed bag - the bloody thing leaked.

oli collett · 27 Oct 2011 at 18:35

One thing that's put me off so far is that to get really into it, you need a chamber vacuum sealer.

And that is when the cost/space issue starts to mount up!

PapaLazaru · 27 Oct 2011 at 18:42

Jonny69 said:
If you just want to give it a go, have you tried the cold box full of hot water trick?

This works very well by all accounts and costs a few pounds. Keep meaning to give it a go myself but have not got round to it yet.

Jonny69 · 28 Oct 2011 at 01:01

glitch said:
I have indeed. I was hugely sceptical of the whole idea but it turned out to be surprisingly good, although not very accurate and a complete pain to fill up.

Although the bodged zip-lock bag approach wasn't as good as using a proper vac-sealed bag - the bloody thing leaked.

Awesome, I keep meaning to try it myself. I'll probably use a knotted freezer bag because, like you say, the ziplock bags leak

Judgeneo · 28 Oct 2011 at 01:03

You can rig up a thermostat to a slow cooker and get pretty good effects apparently.

Try it, post results and build here. I'd be very interested

Stretch · 28 Oct 2011 at 01:17

I don't really rate the cooking method that highly. Chicken for instance has a very disconcerting texture, and I see nothing wrong with a pan fried steak providing it's done correctly.

If these become widely available domestically I can see them quickly loosing favour in high end restaurants.

Moses said:
Why's that so much better than http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/product.aspx?productid=18&deptid=1&?

That would be very handy for preventing freezer burn.

oli collett · 28 Oct 2011 at 07:53

Moses said:
Why's that so much better than http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/product.aspx?productid=18&deptid=1&?

That won't seal liquids

randomshenans · 28 Oct 2011 at 08:45

But that's the point of it. To seal the liquids...

Stretch, it's obviously not being done correctly then. The point is that none of the flavour is lost at all out of whatever it is you cook. The cooking temps and times are crucial for this to be right though, otherwise what you describe happens.

And Glitch, I'm not in the industry, although I was tempted to give up my real life and go that way. I got through to the round before the TV on this years masterchef haha had to go and be filmed and everything. Worked out OK though, I landed an awesome job after that, so the dream still is to open my own place with the Mrs later in life but I have plenty of time yet.

glitch · 28 Oct 2011 at 10:05

oli collett said:
That won't seal liquids

If that's your only reason for wanting/needing a chamber sealer, you're missing out.

There are various methods for sealing liquids inside a bag without a chamber sealer: freezing the liquids before adding; using a gelling agent; the double-bag method; the Archimedes principle method; hanging the bag off the counter; using a handheld sealer, being bloody careful what you're doing, etc.

Naturally, some work better than others, but for home use it's perfectly simple to get along without a chamber sealer. Hell, I know a few restaurants that manage okay without one, although they do use a moderately expensive external suction (*snigger*) model.

QuickLink said:
And Glitch, I'm not in the industry, although I was tempted to give up my real life and go that way. I got through to the round before the TV on this years masterchef haha had to go and be filmed and everything. Worked out OK though, I landed an awesome job after that, so the dream still is to open my own place with the Mrs later in life but I have plenty of time yet.

That's very pleasing to hear. May I enquire as to what you were doing pre-Masterchef and what you find yourself doing now?

glitch · 28 Oct 2011 at 10:06

Jonny69 said:
Awesome, I keep meaning to try it myself. I'll probably use a knotted freezer bag because, like you say, the ziplock bags leak

If you get a sturdy ziplock bag (or even one with a double seal) they'll work a lot better.

I've since found some designed for storing and reheating soups and they'd easily be up to the task.

randomshenans · 28 Oct 2011 at 10:28

glitc[LIST=1 said:
[*]h;20422154]

That's very pleasing to hear. May I enquire as to what you were doing pre-Masterchef and what you find yourself doing now?

Was in IT, still in IT. Ha. But the new role should help me at least be able to plan and put aside for what I would like to do in the future, which I would never be able to do starting from the bottom in food. Then I would lose my work life balance and the money I have now!

Will get there...

glitch · 28 Oct 2011 at 12:57

How did you find the whole Masterchef experience now that Shine have changed the format? Did you apply for any of the previous seasons?

Sous-vide cooking and vacuum sealing

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