South Africa

Lol

I visited the USA in 2019. Height of trumpism, and I was at a sailing club in Long Beach, so pretty much Trump's demographic too (though nowhere near as bad as powerboaters :D ). I was chatting with the locals quite a lot, mentioning things like wanting to perhaps relocate to the USA, but that they didn't seem too fond of immigrants...
Their response - and I'm sure it was tongue in cheek, but you never know: "Ahhh, but you're the RIGHT KIND of immigrant" :D

Funny enough, myself and the wife were in the USA in 2019 too. We were in NYC, Las Vegas and SF. US is not a place I would move to.
 
Very few I would hope, and they would be wrong to do so.

Being worried about a violent and intolerant religion arriving by the boat load is a legitimate concern though.

Agreed, the people arriving by boat need to be stopped.
 
I'm kinda ambivalent on this.
My understanding is that many if not most are legitimate refugees, who would be granted asylum when their cases are heard (if they're ever heard). The problem they have is that you can only apply for asylum from inside the country. And there is no legal way for them to get into the country. So a bit of a catch-22 for them there.

Fair point; but those are the laws of the country. It's unfortunate for them, but this is not the way.
 
I'm sure you'd think differently if you were in their position. In fact, you're already looking to leave your country, so you're not that far from their position.

If I had no legal right to enter the UK - or any country I wouldn't try get in illegally. But yes, maybe I would think differently if I were in their shoes.
 
Well from a business perspective it's in the same timezones as Europe and our work is remote so we can leverage their great talent to European markets that tend to pay more frankly. It's not all corporate greed though - the funds stay in the SA economy and the BEE stuff we comply with hopefully means money goes to help improve equality (although I have some reservations about how much of that actually gets to the right people in practice)

And if you think SA was an odd choice, it was a walk in the park compared to the Ukrainian business I also bought.

Oh yeah, if you bought a business in Ukraine; SA is much easier to deal with from that viewpoint. The reasons you listed, make sense and the strength of the Pound to the Rand, helps. ;)

As for th BEE - that's all nonsense and the money doesn't go to the right places, unfortunately.
 
You won't need to...just apply for a British Passport prior to informing SA and getting permission and it will be done for you. Short story, prior to getting British passports here, I sent in forms sent to me by SA House. Then waited a week and applied for British passports. Heard a month later that the forms *they sent me" were now old and required a different version. Needless to say, as we had already sent in our British applications, we had not asked for permission *prior to*! And I have not bothered to go though the rigmarole of reapplying for SA Citizenship.

Haven't got to the end of this thread but can tell you with 18 years under my belt here that it is neither Paradise nor Nirvana HOWEVER, it is a hell of a lot better than SA. Has it declined since we first arrived? Yes, but it is by no means intolerable and indeed, show me one place that is perfect and it will be instantly ruined by immigration e masse from everyone who believes that the grass is always greener elsewhere.

Apart from the issues already highlighted, don't forget, in the UK, we pay our tax and things generally work (sometimes better, sometimes worse). However, in SA, you pay your official tax and then get hit with all the stealth taxes...private security contractors, private health care, private schooling. You have the constant, and I mean constant, overriding fear of being the victim of crime such that I was always in war mode...took me almost five years to relax in the UK although I still lock doors at night and when I drive and never sit with my back to a door in a public place. It doesn't leave you. I will still jump at loud bangs and "reach for my gun".
I am like a brand ambassador for the UK. I am always telling locals born here how fantastic the place it...by no means perfect but still a lovely place to live. The weather is not so bad as everyone makes out (certainly not in the SE of England). AT the end of the day, we have lovely green areas, open fields, lovely forests etc that would not exist if we had much less rain...you cannot have one without the other.

People can all complain as much as they want about the state of the NHS, public schooling, the price of housing, the cost of living etc etc. My suggestion would be to put your money where your mouth is and go live in USA, Australia, France, Italy, Spain, Germany etc and try it out and then decide if it is really that bad here. The UK is not perfect but as I mentioned, no where is... they just have a different set of problems. You decide what is most important to you.

I love this country and my children were brought up singing G-d Save the Queen every morning (all three verses!).
I flick a switch and the lights and oven turn on. I buy things on special at the supermarket knowing that my freezer will be able to freeze and store it. I go walking in the forest with the family not worried about being, mugged, stabbed or shot for my cell phone (mobile). I may think the politics is a shambles but at least you have a realistic chance of voting out the incumbents.

Now, you could argue that one can expect this in many other countries and you would be right. However, it may mean facing similar issues in the USA with the additional burden of a private healthcare system and higher levels of violent crime. Perhaps Australia? Well, apart from having to deals with Australians on a daily basis, they also have their own specific issues around weather, being at the ar*e end of the world and others (here we only have to deal with the Welsh) :D

All in all, saying we are better than SA can be correctly be interpreted as a low bar but for people coming from there, it is a big thing for a lot of reasons. However, I would argue, that for all our problems, it is still a lovely place to live and we should be a little more appreciative of how good we have it. Sometimes, you have to see things through the eyes of an "uitlander" (foreigner) to realise that perhaps you are a little jaded.
So, to Priapus, make your way over here. It will be infinitely better than your current situation (in Joey's?) and you will not regret it. You will have to make adjustments but overall, you will be a winner.


Good luck

As previously mentioned by @Sinbad2000 - that law was struck down by the high court. In any event I have no intention of renouncing SA citizenship - will just leave it as is.

Apart from the issues already highlighted, don't forget, in the UK, we pay our tax and things generally work (sometimes better, sometimes worse). However, in SA, you pay your official tax and then get hit with all the stealth taxes...private security contractors, private health care, private schooling. You have the constant, and I mean constant, overriding fear of being the victim of crime such that I was always in war mode...took me almost five years to relax in the UK although I still lock doors at night and when I drive and never sit with my back to a door in a public place. It doesn't leave you. I will still jump at loud bangs and "reach for my gun".
I am like a brand ambassador for the UK. I am always telling locals born here how fantastic the place it...by no means perfect but still a lovely place to live. The weather is not so bad as everyone makes out (certainly not in the SE of England). AT the end of the day, we have lovely green areas, open fields, lovely forests etc that would not exist if we had much less rain...you cannot have one without the other.

People who have never stayed in a country like South Africa will not understand this. Crime is literally always on my mind. For example; I have my farewell do this evening for work as I am joining a new company based in London. I have to hand in my old equipment and trying to work out if I should Uber, or take my own car, as I don't want the laptop to be stolen and want to avoid Uber case I am mugged... UK might have issues, but I don't need to worry about crap like that there.

All in all, saying we are better than SA can be correctly be interpreted as a low bar but for people coming from there, it is a big thing for a lot of reasons. However, I would argue, that for all our problems, it is still a lovely place to live and we should be a little more appreciative of how good we have it. Sometimes, you have to see things through the eyes of an "uitlander" (foreigner) to realise that perhaps you are a little jaded.
So, to Priapus, make your way over here. It will be infinitely better than your current situation (in Joey's?) and you will not regret it. You will have to make adjustments but overall, you will be a winner.

Agreed. I actually don't take the state of the UK into consideration when moving. We are not moving there because its better (Its a nice perk) - we are moving so our son can grow up around his family - we literally have zero family in SA. It's just myself, my wife and I. That's it.
 
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