Spain House Build - Building Started

[turbot1984]

Yeah, i think timing is probably a factor. When we had a meeting at the builders (only 2 weeks ago) there was talk of only starting the walls in early December. Then all of a sudden we had builders who were doing something and so we didn't think anything wrong with it until this morning.

I'm hoping we hear something today/tomorrow. The estate agent is really good, and really his involvement is technically closed at this point, but he wants to stay involved until we've moved in which is a lot better than a lot of people. If you ever explore this way then get in touch with Ben/Hanna at Alicante Sales & Lettings. Honestly couldn't speak more highly of them.

Home | Alicante Sales & Lettings

About Alicante SL We are your #1 Real Estate Agency located in the popular Hondon valley! We have a wide selection of properties for sale, specialising in Hondon de las N

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They do have contacts around other areas too, but obviously this is their main focus.


That's decent to know actually on Ytong. i was a little disappointed when we had to switch, but i guess sometimes tried and tested stands the test of time better.

might go and see this one as well, from your agent link. A bit naff inside but that could all change

Sale » Country House » La Romana » La Romana

Sale » Country House » La Romana » La Romana. Tucked away in a peaceful rural location just outside the charming village of La Romana, this exceptional

alicante-sl.com

 

[fez]

Imagine that, being able to actually measure plot size for a house. Spain truly is living in the future. If only one day we could do the same in the UK eh.

 

[Martynt74]

just got off the phone to HomeEspaña who are showing me some houses on friday, fingers crossed.
just need to get my mankini and sombrero packed then i'm all set ....

Awesome stuff. This is one of the things that annoys me about Spain. You don't get to find the actual locations of anything other than a rough guess. Although i think some are getting better at transparancy. Unsure what your requirements are but 100% i'd check any building specs. One of the biggest issues with Spanish builds is poor insulation and the houses are freezing during winter months.
I spoke to a builder at a bar a while back who mentioned that one of the main projects he undertakes is installing internal/external insulation, ripping out central heating and installing modern efficient split air con units. Last winter we used around €500/mth in gas for the central heating and it still never felt warm inside.

that's positive ... he wont go for finishes though (one would hope?), it will be anything hidden that he can target for down-speccing, M&E and landscaping are often good targets.

A lot is already pre-specced though. Landscaping is fairly minimal. We've got around 80m2 of outdoor tiling and then 300m2 of gravel. Sockets are also pre-specced. Although i'm looking at some Aqara ones for home automation so that's potentially where some discussion needs to come in.

might go and see this one as well, from your agent link. A bit naff inside but that could all change

Sale » Country House » La Romana » La Romana

Sale » Country House » La Romana » La Romana. Tucked away in a peaceful rural location just outside the charming village of La Romana, this exceptional

alicante-sl.com

Haha i spotted this on their website when i grabbed the link. I personally really love this area. If you did consider it and are up this way, give me a shout as i know the owners of our rental would be open to discussions to sell. I think we'd have been very tempted if it was available when we first were looking.
They renovated the house completely during covid, so it's got a really good mix of modern and traditional features to it.

Casa Cinco Palmeras

Modern, fully furnished kitchen

www.casa5palmeras.com

 

[Martynt74]

Imagine that, being able to actually measure plot size for a house. Spain truly is living in the future. If only one day we could do the same in the UK eh.

Yeah, it's a pretty decent thing. Generally it's down to a lot of planning laws where you need certain sizes to build (it's now 10,000m2 for rural builds, and you can build on 2%)

The downside is where i've heard people buy plots where the agents claim one size, then it's professionally measured and comes in under that. Leaving them with something they can't build on!

 

[jpaul]

you pay house taxes per sq metre in france and maybe spain too.

job's comforter - how well legally are the tiling contracts prices locked in (covid was an extreme inflation example but folks I know with a diyish build had to increase budget)

It then turned out the 3rd party builder went awol and he's the main builder who specialises in YTONG in the area. I was then told that he could use another subcontractor who would build using double skin with an insulated cavity.

wasn't even the ytong with an additional internal board layer(super plasterboard of some kind) and insulation even if there was no gap;
the rac building problem in the UK was very specific for brands&curing so not a worldwide issue,
durability of external rendering on non-brick structures in the UK and france where I had some kind of blown render with signs of wear after 25odd years is the concern to my mind,
and, houses I (didn't) considered in the UK

 

[turbot1984]

Awesome stuff. This is one of the things that annoys me about Spain. You don't get to find the actual locations of anything other than a rough guess. Although i think some are getting better at transparancy. Unsure what your requirements are but 100% i'd check any building specs. One of the biggest issues with Spanish builds is poor insulation and the houses are freezing during winter months.
I spoke to a builder at a bar a while back who mentioned that one of the main projects he undertakes is installing internal/external insulation, ripping out central heating and installing modern efficient split air con units. Last winter we used around €500/mth in gas for the central heating and it still never felt warm inside.



A lot is already pre-specced though. Landscaping is fairly minimal. We've got around 80m2 of outdoor tiling and then 300m2 of gravel. Sockets are also pre-specced. Although i'm looking at some Aqara ones for home automation so that's potentially where some discussion needs to come in.



Haha i spotted this on their website when i grabbed the link. I personally really love this area. If you did consider it and are up this way, give me a shout as i know the owners of our rental would be open to discussions to sell. I think we'd have been very tempted if it was available when we first were looking.
They renovated the house completely during covid, so it's got a really good mix of modern and traditional features to it.

Casa Cinco Palmeras

Modern, fully furnished kitchen

www.casa5palmeras.com

Thanks. Looks good although odd no pic of the villa from outside? Is it a looker?
Your agent contact Ben giving me a call in half an hour, will go and see him on friday.

 

[Martynt74]

you pay house taxes per sq metre in france and maybe spain too.

job's comforter - how well legally are the tiling contracts prices locked in (covid was an extreme inflation example but folks I know with a diyish build had to increase budget)


wasn't even the ytong with an additional internal board layer(super plasterboard of some kind) and insulation even if there was no gap;
the rac building problem in the UK was very specific for brands&curing so not a worldwide issue,
durability of external rendering on non-brick structures in the UK and france where I had some kind of blown render with signs of wear after 25odd years is the concern to my mind,
and, houses I (didn't) considered in the UK

Yeah, think taxes work like that here too. Benefit being it's pretty low vs the UK

Tiles we're locked in. We had a fixed budget of €20/m2 but found some for €17 which allows us to reallocate funds to a slightly more expensive bathroom fittings as it's the same shop which helps.

 

[turbot1984]

@Martynt74 a real stroke of luck bumping into you on here! So difficult organising anything remotely from the UK, local knowledge is king, thanks.

 

[Martynt74]

Thanks. Looks good although odd no pic of the villa from outside? Is it a looker?
Your agent contact Ben giving me a call in half an hour, will go and see him on friday.

Yeah, i guess as they made the website aimed at Rentals rather than sales so that's a main focus.

Google maps view, although no street view to get a better view.

38°22'34.7"N 0°51'41.1"W

maps.app.goo.gl

It's a fairly standard looking properly, just a white rectangle with a flat roof. Very traditional looking country finca, and a really nice cottage style garden. If you do end up coming up give me a shout and you can always pop over to have a look. As said i know the owners would be open to a sale as i joked with them saying we'd buy it if all our money wasn't tied up!

 

[Martynt74]

@Martynt74 a real stroke of luck bumping into you on here! So difficult organising anything remotely from the UK, local knowledge is king, thanks.

No worries. I agree it's a bit of a minefield, and a lot of agents are pretty underhanded. As evidenced by some of my other posts about the last rental being sold without planning permission and the agents/seller were actively trying to hide it from potential buyers. However Ben refused to list it because he has really strong morals and he understands the technical/legal side of sales too and checks paperwork before listing. I genuinely can't say enough good things about them.


If you do get a spare 3 hours, i started a thread in GD about the whole moving experience which might be pretty useful and cover a lot of the more bureuacratic elements of moving here

Relocation to Spain Experience

Since i've mentioned in pretty much every thread i post in these days about this move, i thought i might create a thread. If for nothing more than a diary of all the crap i have to put up with and try and make decisions by writing them than anything else! Back Story My parents bought a place in...

forums.overclockers.co.uk

 

[tangey]

Last winter we used around €500/mth in gas for the central heating and it still never felt warm inside

Wow, that's crazy money, hard to believe (not saying I don't)

 

[Martynt74]

Wow, that's crazy money, hard to believe (not saying I don't)

Yeah, it was insane. We ran the log burner for a lot of the same time too. We figured it was only for one winter period and so just accepted the cost to try and be comfortable rather than toughing it out.

Properties in general are just so badly insulated that you end up running it almost every waking hour to try and warm the house up, as otherwise the thing is freezing within 10 minutes of shutting it off. It was a big factor in wanting to build something. Although this current place is a lot better.

 

[turbot1984]

it can certainly get nippy inland, according to this anyway. It was 33c when i was in Murcia 3 weeks ago, so those max temps look a bit conservative?

 

[turbot1984]

https://flic.kr/p/2rF55Lc

 

[turbot1984]

defo ... its 27c in Murcia tomorrow!

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah, i'd say Jan/Feb it generally drops to 0-5C overnight and then warms up from around 11am to around 15C on most days. Means the days are always pretty pleasant but any poorly insulated houses are a nightmare in the evenings.

 

[Martynt74]

Single skin with insulation on the inside is inferior to a cavity wall. If that wasnt the plan then.. Cavity walls are normally built together with ties as you go as well so its not just a case of knocking up a another wall.

Would appreciate yours and @turbot1984 's input here.

The original spec was YTONG blocks (35cm thick), presumably just plastered on the inside.

I was then told that we needed to move to double wall with insulation in between and that this would be thicker. I assumed that would involve double layer of the thermal red clay bricks (19cm thick) with a cavity. Probably resulting in a total wall thickness around 50cm

Seems the architect has then reworked this to meet the original thermal efficiency using the original wall thickness to avoid having to extend the foundations. This consists of the 19cm thermal brick, 8cm of insulation, and then 63mm plasterboard (48mm + 15mm)

When i've argued to what my expectation was based on messages, they've said that if i want they can replace the plasterboard with a 70mm brick.

I've been trying to read online, about which is the best approach and struggling a little. In my head the brick option was better and more solid, but it seems that the plasterboard may offer some slightly better thermal/sound properties vs brick. The brick would certainly feel more secure to me but unsure if i'm being old fashioned.

I'm wondering if my next step is to ask for the architects revised sound/thermal insulation calculations to confirm things are the same (or better) than the original specs.

 

[jpaul]

Seems the architect has then reworked this to meet the original thermal efficiency using the original wall thickness to avoid having to extend the foundations. This consists of the 19cm thermal brick, 8cm of insulation, and then 63mm plasterboard (i had initially assumed it would be standard 12mm plasterboard)

I don't think there is a gap with that though (from earlier thread I linked) so outside wall breathable rendering is important for avoiding any humidity transmission,
that had equally suggested it is floor insulation quality that contributes to the seemingly excess heat some have to inject in 'winter'
I even didn't have double glazing in Med france just external wooden shutters, too.

( The pdf I'd linked was I thought the building regs - but I'd forgotten the upload site for translating it.)

 

[Martynt74]

I don't think there is a gap with that though (from earlier thread I linked) so outside wall breathable rendering is important for avoiding any humidity transmission,
that had equally suggested it is floor insulation quality that contributes to the seemingly excess heat some have to inject in 'winter'
I even didn't have double glazing in Med france just external wooden shutters, too.

( The pdf I'd linked was I thought the building regs - but I'd forgotten the upload site for translating it.)

I think those were old threads. Builds here were a bit of a wild west back in 2010 with some really awful builds. There's definitely more regulations in place now and requirements for insulation/waterproofing.

 

[200sols]

Would appreciate yours and @turbot1984 's input here.

The original spec was YTONG blocks (35cm thick), presumably just plastered on the inside.

I was then told that we needed to move to double wall with insulation in between and that this would be thicker. I assumed that would involve double layer of the thermal red clay bricks (19cm thick) with a cavity. Probably resulting in a total wall thickness around 50cm

Seems the architect has then reworked this to meet the original thermal efficiency using the original wall thickness to avoid having to extend the foundations. This consists of the 19cm thermal brick, 8cm of insulation, and then 63mm plasterboard (48mm + 15mm)

When i've argued to what my expectation was based on messages, they've said that if i want they can replace the plasterboard with a 70mm brick.

I've been trying to read online, about which is the best approach and struggling a little. In my head the brick option was better and more solid, but it seems that the plasterboard may offer some slightly better thermal/sound properties vs brick. The brick would certainly feel more secure to me but unsure if i'm being old fashioned.

I'm wondering if my next step is to ask for the architects revised sound/thermal insulation calculations to confirm things are the same (or better) than the original specs.

Is the 63mm plasterboard is also insulated? so you have 80mm + 48mm of insulation internally and then plasterboard. Vs the insulated cavity you wont have the thermal mass of the walls by insulating internally. Really though single skin is totally different to cavity wall in design.

I dont really see the benefit of placing 70mm brick against the 190mm blocks.