Spanish Grand Prix 2012, Catalunya - Race 5/20

[dannyjo22]

has it really been the dire season people are talking about apart from the senna crash?

This season no I don't, I think in comparison he's been unlucky really. He still wouldn't have had as many points as rosberg I think but it wouldn't look as bad as it does now.

Still looking at it though you would have to make the decision that the gamble failed and the team might as well try someone else for the next few years. He's clearly not going to regularly beat rosberg so they need to bring in someone to drive better performances from him and each other.

MS has been unlucky this year, probably used all the luck up in the first part of his career

He no longer has a car with a huge electronic advantage and his own set of software and tyres. I personally feel all those gadgets disguised his very slow decline through the 00's. These cars do not suit the sort of driving he did, amazingly consistent qualifying laps, lap after lap. Fuel stop jump a load of cars in the pits and onto more amazingly consistent laps.

I think he would still look much more competitive had the rules not swung away from what he has spent years doing.

 

[Mr Men]

He no longer has a car with a huge electronic advantage and his own set of software and tyres.

LOL

 

[sunama]

MS has been unlucky this year, probably used all the luck up in the first part of his career

Luck is a huge factor in all sports. Most sports fans tend not to acknowledge luck, but when you hire a driver, buy a footballer, hire a cyclist, etc, you also have to take into account the luck factor.

Specifically with F1, I felt that MSc (first career) and Senna were 2 of the most luckiest drivers I've ever seen. When these guys could win a race or title, they would. It would be very rare that luck would go against them and a victory would be taken away from them by misfortune. Conversely, Mansell, could've won 3 titles had he not been unfortunate on 2 occasions.

Now, I remember in 2011, MSc had bad luck in the early part of the season. The same is happening 2012. People, need to accept that this unlucky streak is what MSc is now bringing to the team. This is why I tend to use points totals as the best overall guide to a drivers performance (including luck).

If you remove luck, MSc is certainly not that far away from Rosberg. But once you factor luck, he is being obliterated (as can be seen by the difference in points totals).

 

[dannyjo22]

LOL

Awesome post.

Enough has been written over the years about his Ferraris electronic advantage in the 00's. Enough has been mentioned that his car would not be the same as his team mates. Recently it also emerged that his tyres wouldn't even be the same as the other bridgestone runners.

That's just the stuff we know about. It his his decline to the point when his car wasn't the out right fastest the only way he could win a race was when only 6 cars entered.

 

[Skeeter]

It goes back to the same points I have been saying (and arknor has been bashing) for a couple of years. Mercedes hired Schumacher for one of 2 reasons. Either to win, or to develop the car.

He's done neither. The experiment is over.

And I think the flack he is getting is justified. We aren't talking about 'a driver' having a poor few years, we are talking about Michael Schumacher, the greatest driver ever in Formula 1. When he anounced his comeback people speculated as to wether he could perform at the top, or would tarnish his reputation by not living up to expectation.

The bar was set incredibly high, and for Schumacher merely having a 'good' performance is still sailing well under what was (rightly or wrongly) expected of him.

This is a man who won 7 titles, was only ever beaten by his team mate when he missed half a season with a broken leg, and re wrote almost every record in the book. Is it unfair to feel a little underwhelmed by his comeback career?

There are a lot of new fans to Formula 1 who wont have been watching the sport when Schumacher was on top. They wont remember his crushing domination, untouchable speed or ability to make the car work when nobody else around him could. They will merely remember an old German guy who was beaten by his team mate and didn't get a podium. That's a real shame.

You can make all the excuses you like, but all people will remember is the results. Mercedes took a chance, and its not met their expectations.

In all honesty I would love to see Schumacher win a race this year, and then retire, just to remind everyone who he is. But being realistic about it, I'm struggling to see that happening

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Would have to agree with you Skeeter. I get that MSC wanted to come back for the enjoyment of it, but all he has done is show everyone he is past it. Anyone who disagrees with this clearly forgets the long list of mind glowingly impressive drives of his during his prime.

 

[Duke]

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Great footage. So much thick smoke, but not surprising considering all the flammables in a garage.

 

[Mr Men]

Awesome post.

Enough has been written over the years about his Ferraris electronic advantage in the 00's. Enough has been mentioned that his car would not be the same as his team mates. Recently it also emerged that his tyres wouldn't even be the same as the other bridgestone runners.

That's just the stuff we know about. It his his decline to the point when his car wasn't the out right fastest the only way he could win a race was when only 6 cars entered.

LOL

got any sources for the electronics and car being different?

Bridgestone worked close with Ferrari no doubt about just like Michelin worked close with Williams fail to see how that affected things when his rivals were not using Bridgestone tyres at the time.

 

[arknor]

Awesome post.

Enough has been written over the years about his Ferraris electronic advantage in the 00's. Enough has been mentioned that his car would not be the same as his team mates. Recently it also emerged that his tyres wouldn't even be the same as the other bridgestone runners.

That's just the stuff we know about. It his his decline to the point when his car wasn't the out right fastest the only way he could win a race was when only 6 cars entered.

you dont remember the times when he jumped in his teammates car then?
i seem to recall a few times when he stole his teamates car and they had the spare car instead ...

people just like to speak ****

Recently it also emerged that his tyres wouldn't even be the same as the other bridgestone runners.

yea really they were special...

no one has the same air to breath as him either/......

 

[MissChief]

It's been confirmed time and time again that Ferrari were Bridgestone's 'Preferred partner' and Bridgestone would develop tyres that suited the Ferrari first and foremost and then give those tyres to the other teams. How that isn't an 'advantage' I don't know?!

 

[sunama]

It certainly is an advantage, but if MSc managed to get himself into that position, you can't blame him. Part of winning races/titles, is what a driver does off-the-track (ie. politically). A complete driver will not only be a master on-track, but he will also know how to play the game, off-track. Prost was the best at the off-track game and decent on-track. The result was 4 World Titles.

To get the best contract, the best equipment, No.1 status. It's all part of what makes a top-line driver.

This is why I say, in his first career, MSc was the most complete driver of all time. He left no stone unturned.

For me, unquestionably, MSc is by far (yes - by far), the most complete driver of all time. Sure, Prost may have been the best driver, off-track. Sure, Senna may have been the fastest driver on-track. Sure, Mansell may have been the most aggressive driver. But overall, mixing all qualities required to be a success in F1, MSc was the best. This is reflected by his numerous records.

In 2012, I believe he should quit, if only to allow a younger driver to have his chance. And for those who are perhaps too young to know about MSc's first career (or only started watching F1 in the last 4 years), the MSc you are seeing now IS NOT the MSc we saw in his first career.

 

[drunkenmaster]

It's been confirmed time and time again that Ferrari were Bridgestone's 'Preferred partner' and Bridgestone would develop tyres that suited the Ferrari first and foremost and then give those tyres to the other teams. How that isn't an 'advantage' I don't know?!

More importantly, he claimed MSC had different tyres to the other bridgestone runners, which is entirely different to "the same tyres but designed with the Ferrari in mind".

Anyway, realistically with the same conditions, the same tracks, and the same regulations, it was hardly a fundamentally massive difference is it. if they work well for Ferrari there wasn't any reason they couldn't work well for others, and as said, considering other people were on completely different tyres, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

 

[Mr Men]

It's been confirmed time and time again that Ferrari were Bridgestone's 'Preferred partner' and Bridgestone would develop tyres that suited the Ferrari first and foremost and then give those tyres to the other teams. How that isn't an 'advantage' I don't know?!

Yes, and Michelin did the same with Williams even when McLaren went to Michelin they had to get help from Williams on how to get the most from the tyres such was Michelin geared around Williams, not sure how its a real advantage for Ferrari when their main rivals used Michelin.

 

[Mr Men]

you dont remember the times when he jumped in his teammates car then?
i seem to recall a few times when he stole his teamates car and they had the spare car instead ...

You are correct, but I guess some find it easier just to make up stuff if it makes them feel better about the thrashing MS handed down to their favoured drivers

 

[arknor]

You are correct, but I guess some find it easier just to make up stuff if it makes them feel better about the thrashing MS handed down to their favoured drivers

im suprised no one mentioned the magical brakes that glowed in even the corners you dont brake for

but we all know what mscs driving style was like in corners right? that thing he kept beeing told off for in practice sessions over the radio for the last 2 years

 

[dannyjo22]

It certainly is an advantage, but if MSc managed to get himself into that position, you can't blame him. .

I agree, but then for me the magic of that team in the 2000's was the engineers not the drivers. They were miles ahead of the field in electronics.

Kudos to MS for getting himself as the undisputed focal point. It worked for all concerned.

im suprised no one mentioned the magical brakes that glowed in even the corners you dont brake for

That was Mclaren.

LOL

got any sources for the electronics and car being different?

Bridgestone worked close with Ferrari no doubt about just like Michelin worked close with Williams fail to see how that affected things when his rivals were not using Bridgestone tyres at the time.

There have been many articles over the years on it. This one is the easiest to find on the huge strides Ferrari made in electronics. Irvine himself on the bbc forum a year or so ago made comment about not having the same car, he wasn't complaining he knew what he signed up for.

http://www.pitpass.com/26514-The-Toyota-Affair

you dont remember the times when he jumped in his teammates car then?
i seem to recall a few times when he stole his teamates car and they had the spare car instead ...
..

Because it would be impossible for them to make software alterations to a team mates car when MS jumped in it?

Anyway this is old news my apologies for bringing it up again, MS with electronic aids is indeed greater than all. MS without electronic aids not as great as Britney

 

[Mr Men]

So let's get this right, Ferrari developed more than others and you use it as some sort of put down for MS? How about when pit to car telemetry was banned? oh yeah he still won. Ferrari developed a lot of clever things, so did others they were not years behind, McLaren and Williams were not fools and doing their own things like you seem to suggest. Like when Ferrari developed a super fast gearbox it was the only reason MS won, FIA banned it and oh he still won, how dastardly of Ferrari and MS to develop the best car they could then use it to pound the opposition, that is surely not F1!

When they took driver aids away, MS still won, when they changed the points system and qualifying MS still won, but yeah keep seeking reasons to put him down LOL

At his peak MS would wipe the floor with Nico.

 

[arknor]

Anyway this is old news my apologies for bringing it up again, MS with electronic aids is indeed greater than all. MS without electronic aids not as great as Britney

electronics didnt do much for senna when he was losing to schumacher....

. Like when Ferrari developed a super fast gearbox

wasnt that mclaren? same mclaren with a 3rd pedal for only the rear brakes?

how many fines did ferrari get? oh wait that was mclaren , lie gate? oh wait mclaren again

mclaren probably cheated more than any other team in the history of f1 yet its schumacher who aparently had all these aids and god mode XD

 

[dannyjo22]

mclaren probably cheated more than any other team in the history of f1...

No Mclaren got caught more, huge difference