Spanish Grand Prix 2013, Barcelona - Race 5/19

Out of interest, I think Merc did 3 stops in the last race (am I correct?). Given that they were so harsh on tyres, why did they not stop 4 times?

Their computer simulations must have suggested that a tip-toeing round for 3 stops was faster than running at a pace that would have allowed them 4 stops.

Either that, or they munched 2 sets of tyres in Qualifying so bad that they only really had 4 sets for the race.
 

Given the last race, why dont you think Ferrari (who had good degradation and actually managed to get Massa on the podium as well) can be just as influencial as RBR in the WDC?

With a few more races like Spain (with Massa keeping SV off the podium) it wouldnt take that long for FA to overtake SV in the championship - and while Im not holding my breath its even possible McLaren might take points off RBR as well sometime soon

Over 1 lap, Merc have THE fastest car. No doubt about it.
Their problems are that they shred their tyres at an astonishing rate.

This has been their main weakness for over three seasons

1) Why do people think there is going to be a quick solution (as they havent managed to solve it since 2010)
2) This is why (for this particular team) I think any good performance in quali makes squat difference....they are still going to go backwards (at an alarming rate) in the race even if they lock out the front row.
 
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I think what Lewis said to his engineer just sums it up really “I can’t drive any slower.”

Is that something you ever want to hear a F1 driver say during a race? :(

I want to hear "I can't drive any faster"
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

Anderson saying pretty much my feelings. Why does everyone all of a sudden care when it's no different to 3 years ago.

Personally I think it's because a British Driver isn't at the front. Had Button or Hamilton been in Alonso's position I think we would still be in the position where this forum heaped praise at Jensons tyre saving ability or how exciting and unpredictable the tyres are.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

Anderson saying pretty much my feelings. Why does everyone all of a sudden care when it's no different to 3 years ago.

Personally I think it's because a British Driver isn't at the front. Had Button or Hamilton been in Alonso's position I think we would still be in the position where this forum heaped praise at Jensons tyre saving ability or how exciting and unpredictable the tyres are.


He forgot to say that they are running 5.5-11 seconds to what the pole was and 3 years ago it was 2.2 seconds
but don't let facts get in the way :) It was llike watching F1 in slow mow last sunday.
 
I don't care about the lap time being off pole by 5 seconds. It makes little difference to the race and everyone is in the same boat. AL the teams where given this tyres in plenty of time and have developed a car according to them.

That Mclaren and Mercedes are struggling, along with Red Bull that's tough ****. They should have voiced their concerns together in pre-season. They didn't and as far back as 3 weeks ago where in agreement they wanted to keep these going forward. With the exception of Red Bull.

If they did change the tyres and for instance Button and Mclaren suddenly had the best tyre/car combo and he won the title it would be an utter farec of greater proportions than the crap state of the tyres currently. It would be hilarious that they could totally control the championship by tyre changes.
 
Anderson saying pretty much my feelings. Why does everyone all of a sudden care when it's no different to 3 years ago.
Gary Anderson should know better than anyone that it's a fallacy to use times alone, as cars have evolved and regulations changed, not to mention possible variations in track and weather conditions.

My perception is that previously, while the teams and drivers had to manage their tyre wear, the effects were different. They could be driven pretty much flat out until a certain point, after which they would fall off very quickly. The decision was whether it was worth staying out an extra lap and risking losing time to your rivals. This year, it seems that the characteristics of the tyre have changed: they now drop off more quickly the harder they're driven. This means that a team can opt to either drive flat out and expect to do more stops, or can manage the tyres and attempt to do fewer.

IMO, I'd prefer F1 to be about racing flat out, and pushing everything to the limit. When teams start gaining an advantage by being conservative, that's when it stops being exciting, and that's when the regulations need to change.

Edit: Just wanted to add that one of the reasons the tyre situation annoys me so much is that it's outside the teams' control. Sure, they get computer models of the tyre characteristics, but simulating your car's tyre wear and actually observing it are two different beasts entirely. If there was more time for pre-season testing with these tyres, I think most of the teams would have been able to get to grips with them (as it were) and this wouldn't be so much of an issue.
 
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People have been moaning about these tyres since day 1.

Sure, the specific people complaining about them change depending on if their team is doing well or not (that goes for fans, as well as the specific teams own members), but thats hardly surprising.

Its not like the Pirelli tyres had never been discussed until after Sundays race?

Edit: See... from the 2011 Spain race thread.

I actually detest these tyres more than the DRS or any of the stupid rules they are discussing. I hate the drop off between a car that's pitted 4 laps previous compared to a new set. You can see why everyone is saving them.

Webber battles Alonso for a couple of laps and just like hamilton v button last race, the tyres were done and he dropped back.

:rolleyes:
 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

Anderson saying pretty much my feelings. Why does everyone all of a sudden care when it's no different to 3 years ago.

Personally I think it's because a British Driver isn't at the front. Had Button or Hamilton been in Alonso's position I think we would still be in the position where this forum heaped praise at Jensons tyre saving ability or how exciting and unpredictable the tyres are.

You nailed it :)
 
Lotus boss Eric Boullier slams Pirelli tyre tweak decision
By Jonathan Noble

Lotus boss Eric Boullier has criticised the move by Pirelli to change tyres mid-season just because some teams have complained.

Pirelli announced earlier this week that it would be tweaking the constructions of its rubber from next month's Canadian GP in light of the four-stops needed at the Spanish Grand Prix.

With the move expected to benefit those teams like Red Bull and Mercedes that have struggled with the tyres so far this year, Boullier believes that few other competitions would have accepted such a change once a title battle was underway.

"There aren't many sports where there are such fundamental changes to an essential ingredient part-way through a season," said Boullier on Thursday.

"Just imagine for a moment that, because a football team can't run as fast as its opponent, the dimensions of the pitch are changed at half time!

"That there are changes to come can be seen as somewhat frustrating, and I hope they are not too extreme. It's clear that Pirelli have found themselves in a difficult situation and under pressure from different quarters."

Boullier believes the situation is especially unfair because all outfits had access to Pirelli's 2013 tyre data at the same time - and the move could hurt those outfits that elected to focus their designs on ensuring the tyres were looked after.

"Last year, when we were designing our 2013 car, each team received information from Pirelli and everyone did the best job they could to develop a chassis which would make best use of the tyre characteristics," he said.

"We even ran with some experimental 2013 tyres at the end of last season, to assist us in confirming our development paths.

"As with every season, some teams do a better job than others with their designs, and some drivers are more adaptable than others to the changes of both car and tyre.

Eric Boullier Lotus F1 2013"It is frustrating when you've developed a car from a set of tyre specifications which are available to everyone – for tyres that are the same for everyone – to then be told that they are being changed mid-season."

Despite his clear frustration about the situation, which comes as Kimi Raikkonen lies just four points off the lead of the title standings, Boullier has said his staff will simply dig deeper to try and recover any ground it loses.

"We have a team of talented designers and engineers who will be working twice as hard to ensure we adapt to these changes in the most competitive manner," he added.
 
Edit: See... from the 2011 Spain race thread.



:rolleyes:

I fail to see what your point is tbh. In that post have I asked for instant knee jerk changes? In this thread I have made it clear I still agree that the tyres are a load of balls but that doesn't mean I think they should change them to ruin it for teams that have developed a car legally.

Anyway aren't you the same person that was pro tyres and knocked anyone that said they were causing a tyre lottery. Seems you are allowed a change of opinion?
 
I fail to see what your point is tbh. In that post have I asked for instant knee jerk changes? In this thread I have made it clear I still agree that the tyres are a load of balls but that doesn't mean I think they should change them to ruin it for teams that have developed a car legally.

Anyway aren't you the same person that was pro tyres and knocked anyone that said they were causing a tyre lottery. Seems you are allowed a change of opinion?

It's affecting Lewis now which is why the change of opinion, when MS said it last year this forum just laughed at him.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

Anderson saying pretty much my feelings. Why does everyone all of a sudden care when it's no different to 3 years ago.

Personally I think it's because a British Driver isn't at the front. Had Button or Hamilton been in Alonso's position I think we would still be in the position where this forum heaped praise at Jensons tyre saving ability or how exciting and unpredictable the tyres are.

Because after a few races before, the teams got on top of the tyres fairly quickly which is why they keep having to make them softer. Something went a bit wrong this time though clearly (a lot more failures for a start).
 
It's affecting Lewis now which is why the change of opinion, when MS said it last year this forum just laughed at him.


What are you on about? I and others here have been saying the tires are crap since Pirelli came in to F1.
And I think you'll find that most are not Lewis fans here ;)
 
Because after a few races before, the teams got on top of the tyres fairly quickly which is why they keep having to make them softer. Something went a bit wrong this time though clearly (a lot more failures for a start).

Didn't we have a record for number of different winners, so that suggests to me no one nailed the tyres down for quite sometime?

Perhaps if they are going to do large changes inside of the season they should allow a few days tyre testing in season, but the teams don't want that either. I just find it even more artificial and easy to change the direction of a title but changing tyres to reduce one teams advantage, whoever it may be.

Just as I didn't think it was fair to change other areas of the car that were deemed legal and then against the rules. If a car has made them work and it's not in the interests of 'safety' then it should stand until the end of the season.

I'm not a fan of anything about this tyres or the way they are used but it can wait until next year. As I posted 2 or 3 years ago, the easiest way to sort this all out is allow a tyre war.
 
What are you on about? I and others here have been saying the tires are crap since Pirelli came in to F1.
And I think you'll find that most are not Lewis fans here ;)

Don't worry. It was yet another dig at me even though he knows I can't see his posts.
 
I fail to see what your point is tbh. In that post have I asked for instant knee jerk changes? In this thread I have made it clear I still agree that the tyres are a load of balls but that doesn't mean I think they should change them to ruin it for teams that have developed a car legally.

Anyway aren't you the same person that was pro tyres and knocked anyone that said they were causing a tyre lottery. Seems you are allowed a change of opinion?

You posted asking why people suddenly care about tyres, I was just pointing out that there is no 'suddenly' about it. Its been a hot topic since they arrived.

And I'm with you, changing the tyres because a couple of teams moaned is not the solution. However, with Paul Hembrey suggesting the Super Softs might only be good for 1 lap, meaning the top 10 in Monaco could be starting on tyres already ruined, maybe they should be changed based on being just too fragile?

Personally, I'd like to see the rules tweaked before the tyres are.
 
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