spanish protest\riots live footage

[JonJ678]

There's no conceptual difficulty with automation decreasing the number of jobs. It decreases the number of necessary jobs, you can still have however many irrelevant ones you wish.

In the good old days, 100 people spent all their time growing food, finding water etc. in order to support 100 people. Every man had a job, every job was roughly equivalent.

In the new, automated days, you have one guy with automation, achieving the same amount of work that previously took a hundred. In the first instance, yes, 99 jobs have disappeared. Alternatively, it doesn't matter what these 99 do - so invent jobs. Or have them work at cross purposes or leave them on benefits. Any kind of crap really, it doesn't matter. They can even be students.

With enough effort, it's conceivable that all the jobs that actually matter can be automated. Food, water, sewage, manufacturing. That wouldn't mean billions of people out of work, it would mean billions of people doing jobs where it doesn't matter whether they turn up to work or not.

Can anyone on here say they've never met someone whose job simply doesn't matter?

The above post has been written by an engineering student whose bias is apparent. I want to build the robots after all.

 

[dpbadger]

Think I saw a film similar to that.

 

[aln]

There's no conceptual difficulty with automation decreasing the number of jobs. It decreases the number of necessary jobs, you can still have however many irrelevant ones you wish.

In the good old days, 100 people spent all their time growing food, finding water etc. in order to support 100 people. Every man had a job, every job was roughly equivalent.

In the new, automated days, you have one guy with automation, achieving the same amount of work that previously took a hundred. In the first instance, yes, 99 jobs have disappeared. Alternatively, it doesn't matter what these 99 do - so invent jobs. Or have them work at cross purposes or leave them on benefits. Any kind of crap really, it doesn't matter. They can even be students.

With enough effort, it's conceivable that all the jobs that actually matter can be automated. Food, water, sewage, manufacturing. That wouldn't mean billions of people out of work, it would mean billions of people doing jobs where it doesn't matter whether they turn up to work or not.

Can anyone on here say they've never met someone whose job simply doesn't matter?

The above post has been written by an engineering student whose bias is apparent. I want to build the robots after all.

I'm not arguing with your point, however the vast majority of people work to get paid and you're less likely to continue to get paid in a job that doesn't matter. You simply don't want to be in that position until society changes to a system that allows you to survive without meaningful employment, yet I'm sure people forced into such a positions via job automation or job relocation.

That doesn't mean we should halt progress, nor does it make you immoral being an engineer (programmer here, I automate peoples jobs away too), but i'd argue it does make it sorta immoral to be against a welfare support system and to imagine 100% employment as something always attainable, when you spend your day making people redundant.

In the long term, I figure it'll take care of itself. The problem is what happens to people in between when we're stealing their jobs away and then calling them lazy when they can't find a replacement and how we go from here to there without letting people die in the streets (assuming you're against that sort of thing).

P.S. I'd assume that any job that could be automated, would be automated and by jobs that "don't matter" you mean something more along the lines of doing jobs you enjoy doing, whether or not they be particularly profit making.

 

[Dolph]

Good to see the left living up to their reputations as undemocratic perpetrators of mindless violence when reality kicks in outside of the UK for a change...

 

[Efour]

read title as Spanish prostitutes live footage....

so so so disappointing

 

[MrMoonX]

Glad to see that the spanish people have the balls to fight the bankers charter of austerity, cant wait until the british people do the same. Capitalism all over the world is failing, why should we pay for a system that is against fair distribution of wealth .

 

[dalin80]

Because socialism up through to communism don't work either. Also these riots and strikes etc are doing even more damage to the country and if they continue on this scale will only hasten spains financial collapse making life worse for all involved.

 

[steve-h]

Glad to see that the spanish people have the balls to fight the bankers charter of austerity, cant wait until the british people do the same. Capitalism all over the world is failing, why should we pay for a system that is against fair distribution of wealth .

I think you're joking... But I can't quite tell.

 

[robgmun]

Glad to see that the spanish people have the balls to fight the bankers charter of austerity, cant wait until the british people do the same. Capitalism all over the world is failing, why should we pay for a system that is against fair distribution of wealth .

Part of me wishes that there's revolution in just one country so that you can finally see that it's the worst idea for the country itself. If it happened it will break Spain in two and it will effectively become a 3rd world country in Europe and prove to you that you're wrong on all levels. Everyone will starve and it will make the current situation seem like a dreamland.

Funny how Russia's example isn't good enough for you

 

[MrMoonX]

Part of me wishes that there's revolution in just one country so that you can finally see that it's the worst idea for the country itself. If it happened it will break Spain in two and it will effectively become a 3rd world country in Europe and prove to you that you're wrong on all levels. Everyone will starve and it will make the current situation seem like a dreamland.

Funny how Russia's example isn't good enough for you

So you'd rather work to pay for a broken system and not get anything back from that system but do it to make a minority rich??? Crazy!

Russian communism is a world away from proper socialism

 

[Dolph]

Because socialism up through to communism don't work either. Also these riots and strikes etc are doing even more damage to the country and if they continue on this scale will only hasten spains financial collapse making life worse for all involved.

what options do you think Spain has apart from continuing to borrow but having to agree to lenders terms, substantial cutbacks to eliminate the deficit, or default and be unable to borrow going forwards?

austerity is the least worst of the choices in terms of impact on the people.

edit, this should have quoted moonx

 

[robgmun]

So you'd rather work to pay for a broken system and not get anything back from that system but do it to make a minority rich??? Crazy!

Russian communism is a world away from proper socialism

1) Better then working in a system where everybody suffers 3rd world conditions and only a few in government are comfortable.

2) The Human condition doesn't allow for proper socialism, communism will be the closest you'll ever get.

If you collect every pound in britian and re-distribute it evenally to every man woman and child in the country. Within one year you'll get rich and poor again. because some people are incredibly poor with money and some people are intelligent.

 

[realBabelfish]

doh

 

[realBabelfish]

doh, wrong thread!

 

[UncleRuckus]

I saw some of this live a day or two ago, there were lots of reds; I was hoping the batons were going to come out .

 

[starfighter]

Considering 80% of Spain is asleep during those hours that only the immigrant shops are open... they aren't handing over much if any business at all actually.

Business is dead in the early afternoon, you have a more productive workforce if they aren't working during the hottest worst part of the day. Also business stays open late and they simply have a different culture over there.

I really don't know when people will wake up, we live in a worldwide economy that works on everyone working their hardest for everyone to have enough to live, but every single year for basically 100 years we've needed less people per capita in every industry.

My go to example, it used to take 100 people a week to make 2 cars, 5 people keeping an eye on 100 robots can make 5000 cars a week. Sure the demand has gone up massively, but the amount of work require per car has dropped through the floor. The number of soldiers required to wage a war, the number of street cleaners needed to clean a city, the number of packers in warehouses(Amazon is HUGELY automated), the amount of farmers per tonne of a vegetable produced due to greenhouses, pesticides, hydroponics.

There are massively more people but a massively reduced number of jobs for said people.

The economy can't and won't survive on the principle of everyone working. every single country worldwide is losing industry jobs and piling on jobs paid out of tax from an effectively shrinking tax income.

It simply DOES NOT WORK, it will never work, the only way it could work is if we get rid of every computer, robot and advanced manufacturing technique so we randomly create more jobs.

We need a new way of thinking, basically, communism or, at least, not a society based on greed.

Imagine the world we'd live in if everyone job shared, everyone worked half days, and had more time to spend with family, kids, to learn, to read, to play sports.... you know, where everyone can be happy rather than 5% of the world being able to live off their parents riches and 50% of the world work two jobs just to feed their kids.

We need population control and a MASSIVE change in world wide culture... neither are going to happen any time soon.

LOL, no.

 

[arc@css]

Some good points there, DM.

 

[steve-h]

Since it seems you weren't joking...

Capitalism all over the world is failing

What capitalism? Capitalism is heavily interfered with by governments... There is no free market.

why should we pay for a system

You don't pay to a system, your property is taken from you through force...

that is against fair distribution of wealth .

It blows my mind how some people have come to the conclusion that having people with guns take people's property through force is somehow the just and fair thing to do...

 

[hola_adios]

All these protesters seem to have forgotten that their country is broke. Are they protesting to try and get their country into even more debt?

You seem not to have a grasp of the economic situation in Spain. The country is not broke, not even close.

The Spanish government is behaving oddly, putting it mildly, closest leader would be Berlusconi. The way they are giving money to financial institutions and certain banks instead of let them fail at the same time as cutting basic services would give place to riots in the UK.

 

[Twirlywoos]

http://www.livestream.com/spanishrevolutionsol

kicking off over there they have surrounded parliament and are demanding government to stand down.

let's get tweeting.

#ocuk is....