Speaker Wire

Guest2 · 30 Dec 2009 at 00:32

I am going to buy 5metres x2 of speaker cable tomorrow and dont really know what I should get. At the moment I am using 1metre of Gale 315 and 1 metre of XL 189? (unsure why, i thought they were both the same!)

Having read a bit of article on speaker wire (below) and also loads of places on the net is it really worth me spending a fair amount of money on speaker wire?

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Whats the difference between the Symphony 100 and 200? Apart from the fact symphony 200 used to be 99p a metre and is now £1.50 and says 'deal'

http://www.richersounds.com/products/hi-fi-separates/accessories/speaker-cables

Has speaker wire ever made a difference to you?

Edit - It says this about the symphony 400 "Fans of the XL315 will be pleased to hear that the bass depth and impact that made the old cable so popular, remain."

Bass depth and impact? Surely thats just a load of ****

alex24 · 30 Dec 2009 at 00:34

I'm using the same as you are atm and am perfectly happy with it on my entry level system. Why are you extending it and what route will it take?

Guest2 · 30 Dec 2009 at 00:44

alexhull24 said:
I'm using the same as you are atm and am perfectly happy with it on my entry level system. Why are you extending it and what route will it take?

Just found out i am using one length of Gale XL 315 (symphony 400) to one speaker and XL 189 (symphony 200) to the other speaker.

My setup is mid range id say - Nad C352, B&W 603, Xonar Essence soundcard playing FLAC. Extending it because I will be shifting my speakers from bedroom to front room for a new years party (my room is next to front room) Hmmm, i might just get 10 metres of symphony 100 and 1 metre of symphony 400 to match my Gale XL 315

PhillyDee · 30 Dec 2009 at 00:46

Guest2 said:
Just found out i am using one length of Gale XL 315 (symphony 400) to one speaker and XL 189 (symphony 200) to the other speaker.

My setup is mid range id say - Nad C352, B&W 603, Xonar Essence soundcard playing FLAC. Extending it because I will be shifting my speakers from bedroom to front room for a new years party (my room is next to front room) Hmmm, i might just get 10 metres of symphony 100 and 1 metre of symphony 400 to match my Gale XL 315

Well according to the high spenders it means you have 2 completely different sounds coming out of each speaker. You must be able to hear the difference surely!!!!

Pick something thick. Or use Cat5E.

Guest2 · 30 Dec 2009 at 00:53

lol no. i dont think it would make a difference unless i had a 50 foot reel of bell wire next to 1 metre of thick wire and played some loud music.

Think it has been proven that network cables are crap for speaker wire and takes too much time/effort turning them into speaker cables anyway

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 01:07

Guest2 said:
Think it has been proven that network cables are crap for speaker wire and takes too much time/effort turning them into speaker cables anyway

It hasn't and it doesn't.

Just take a bit of cat 5 and split each end into whites and colours. That's your +ve and -ve. Works great.

I pleated out some cat 5 a while back (still got em) and couldn't notice any difference at all.

Guest2 · 30 Dec 2009 at 01:10

I have a 15 metre cat 5 cable. So all i need to do it chop the ends off, open them out into whites and colours, twist together and then poke into + and - on speakers and amp?

Sure i read somewhere on the net a while ago it was better to just buy £1 a metre speaker cable

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 01:14

Guest2 said:
I have a 15 metre cat 5 cable. So all i need to do it chop the ends off, open them out into whites and colours, twist together and then poke into + and - on speakers and amp?

yes

Sure i read somewhere on the net a while ago it was better to just buy £1 a metre speaker cable

Certainly easier. Probably more copper in the cat5 though. Beware of speaker cables, often at the 'lower end' all that is happening is the plastic the copper is inside is getting thicker. The amount of copper is the same

Take a look at a cross section.

Guest2 · 30 Dec 2009 at 01:22

That looks like hard work. do you have to pleat all the cable as above? Just check my 2 different cables and the plastic is certainly thicker on the more expensive one. Copper looks the same though, maylook bigger due to optical illusion (as on the link in my first post)

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 01:29

Guest2 said:
That looks like hard work. do you have to pleat all the cable as above?

No, that's what I'm saying. That took me an evening to do, and I was curious as I had been reading about using cat5 for speaker cables and I had a bunch of cat5 so I thought I'd try it (As recommended on many 'audiophile websites'. But really doing the cat 5 the way you said above works fine . Just run a lenght and split at each end.

mrk · 30 Dec 2009 at 02:30

You could just use CAT5e then sheath it in the cable wrap you can buy from PC stores that modders use to wrap PSU cables in inside their PC cases - that would also work I guess

I'd be interested in trying the CAT5 cable trick out.

I have a pair of 2.5 metre QED Silver Anniversary cable which are pretty solid cut it's always good to have backup cables and spares and I have a lot of network cable left over in a box which could be put to some use

In fact, if you guys really do reckon it's good the I'd be tempted to sell the QED cables on eBay and make some cash from them!

alex24 · 30 Dec 2009 at 02:31

I'd just buy some cheap CA cable like that you mentioned in the OP for 99p per metre. The other stuff looks like such a faff it's unbelievable. Hours of your life you'll never see again my friend.

MikeHunt79 · 30 Dec 2009 at 02:41

PhillyDee said:
Pick something thick. Or use Cat5E.

Cat5e doesn't really take much current, unless you braid lots of strands....

Better off going for solid or stranded mains cable, something with a csa between 1.5mm and 2.5mm

Don't spend more than £2 a metre if you can help it...

edit: :eek:

Whitecrook that's some chunky stuff, how many cores is that cable?

mrk · 30 Dec 2009 at 02:46

The only question though is how well will mains cable/cat5e etc shield against interference?

I don't know about everyone's setups but my speaker cables run past many power leads, power bricks and other cables.

MikeHunt79 · 30 Dec 2009 at 03:01

mrk said:
The only question though is how well will mains cable/cat5e etc shield against interference?

I don't know about everyone's setups but my speaker cables run past many power leads, power bricks and other cables.

Commercial speaker cable is normally not shielded/screened, so mains cable will be just as good as speaker cable in terms of shielding against interference. Twisting your speaker/mains cable can reduce noise/interference, at the expense on increasing capacitance a little...

Braided cat5 will have higher capacitance than main/speaker cable I imagine, but my LCR meter has yet to arrive so I cannot be sure of this...

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 03:13

MikeHunt79 said:
edit: Whitecrook that's some chunky stuff, how many cores is that cable?

It's 3 made into 3 made into 3, so 27 cores in total per cable.

So 4 metres of Cat5 per metre, with 5 strands left over. (so for 2 cables, 7 metres with 2 strands left over)

MikeHunt79 · 30 Dec 2009 at 03:26

whitecrook said:
It's 3 made into 3 made into 3, so 27 cores in total per cable.

So 4 metres of Cat5 per metre, with 5 strands left over. (so for 2 cables, 7 metres with 2 strands left over)

27 cores is overkill, but it's better to have cable that is too thick as opposed to too thin.

Does it sound any different to normal speaker cable to you? I imagine it may sound a little different, but it's often hard to know if it's really a change or the placebo effect with things like this...

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 03:36

In all honesty no, it didn't sound any different at all.

I have Gale XL 315 which I have been using for years, on my main speakers, and I also just use cat5 split white/colours as described above on secondary systems, and I can't tell any difference between them.

I have a 80's sanyo integrated, a recent yamaha AV amp, HK av amp in power amp config with a custom tube pre amp and a tripath autocoisture. Definate differences between these systems and speakers (Gale gold monitor 2s / fostex 207 in custom cabs / rogers ls33a/b + assorted 'others') but as for speaker cable, I don't get it.

One thing I've been meaning to try for a while is some really hair thin cable, jus tto try the opposite end, the sort of stuff that transformers are wound from.

I think in the grand scheme of things, unless you have a finely honed listening environment, with good amp + source, speaker cable will make no real discernible difference as long as it's a 'capable' cable, by this I mean, able to carry the signal/current/voltage whatever between the amp and the speaker. Bigger differences will be made by positioning your speakers, even as little as a few inch, adjusting your listening position, and changing your listening environment (reflections/absorbtions etc etc)

edit to add, sure you might be able to /measure/ a difference between cables, but seeign a difference on a scope and hearing a difference are different things. YMMV etc etc

MikeHunt79 · 30 Dec 2009 at 03:59

I agree - it's not worth spending a lot on cables, as the difference to sound is either barely noticeable, or non-existsant. The speaker cable fund would be better off spent on room treatment, or bi-amping for example...

whitecrook said:
One thing I've been meaning to try for a while is some really hair thin cable, jus tto try the opposite end, the sort of stuff that transformers are wound from.

I'm sure you could just unwind a transformer from a dead DVD player or PC PSU if you wanted to try it. Remember this will be enamelled wire, so you may need to scrape the enamel from the ends before it will work.

When long runs of thin wire are run in PA soundsystems, often a few watts can be lost in the cable, especially with 4 or 2 ohm loads. I've heard of people using phone wire in the past, and often 50 or 60w can be used by the thin cable with a 100m run. This is often why 4mm CSA cable is used when possible with larger systems.

With home hifi however, 1Kw+ speakers are pretty rare, so if a really thin wire is used, I imagine the effect would be much less noticeable. You may even get some dynamic compression with the thin wire, in fact I'm tempted to try some thin wire myself now, just to see how bad it really is!

I notice you've got a Tripath amp, is it TA2024 based? If so, you won't need very thick wire in the first place.

whitecrook · 30 Dec 2009 at 04:04

MikeHunt79 said:
I notice you've got a Tripath amp, is it TA2024 based? If so, you won't need very thick wire in the first place.

No, it's a T2020 i think, also got a charlize 2 here but not fired it up yet - i've had it sitting here a year!

It was on DIy audio someone mentioned using thin wire to counteract some kind of isue with the sound of a speaker where I got the idea. I actually have an old broken CD player (phillips CD582, oh yeah!) with a hefty transformer in it. Maybe in the next few days I'll test it out.