Spec me: bedroom TV HTPC alternative

[strumpusplunket]

So we're just nearing the end of our loft conversion, and me and my wife will be moving our bedroom up to the new loft room. We don't use the TV in our current bedroom, but we're thinking now we've got our own floor away from the kids it might be nice to be able to watch TV and films up there.

We have a large library of BR and DVD rips of films and TV series that we watch on the HTPC downstairs, and we also use it for catch-up TV, Netflix, Vimeo, etc.

We'd like a solution for the bedroom that works in a similar way, but I don't want to build another HTPC. There's no space for one thing. I guess a NUC would be a decent alternative, but I'd like something cheaper.

Basically, we want something that can give us a nice interface for a library of films and TV series and allow us to use Youtube, Vimeo, Netflix, Amazon, iPlayer, etc.

I'm thinking accessing an external HDD would be best as we don't have a NAS, so if there's anything that could do that as well, that would be a bonus.

Budget would ideally not be much above £200. Any suggesting, OcUKers?

 

[strumpusplunket]

The Fire TV box looks pretty good. I always thought Amazon TV was a stick-like device, like a thumb drive, but the box looks like it's got more features. Looks like I missed hearing about this.

However, reading up on it, it seems like it has a number of problems if you want to use an external HDD? Like requiring FAT32 formatting and never allowing the drive to spin down? Unless those issues have been fixed?

 

[strumpusplunket]

No, our HTPC runs Kodi and has our film library stored on its internal HDD. I've never used Plex.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Samba or NFS share the library and have the FireTV Kodi/SPMC install connect to that.

Ah, you mean share the library that's on the internal drive of the HTPC? Would that mean it always has to be on? Is there an easy way to wake it and put it to sleep from the Fire TV box? If so, then that might well be a really good solution.

 

[strumpusplunket]

If your HTPC is always on then a nice feature is to run a MySQL database for your library and connect all your devices (so the HTPC itself plus the FireTV or whatever solution you go for) to it so you have a central library. It gives you some nice features such as items you have watched (items with a tick) will show the same on all devices and if you watch something on the HTPC and stop half way through you can continue from where you left off on another device (and vice versa). Not revolutionary functions but quite a nice touch that once you have used you will find useful.

Edit: just saw your last reply above suggesting it isn't always on. Not sure about Kodi's ability to wake the remote system and I am fairly sure for the MySQL suggestion to work the device always has to be on.

Yeah, I'd rather it not be on all the time. I mean I'm sure it's a low power system when idle, but still I'd prefer if it could power down when not in use.

I've no idea at all how to set up a MySQL databse, but I may well look it up now!

What OS is your HTPC?

You can set it to hibernate or sleep and set Wake On Lan which would wake it up when a request to access it's shared resources is made.

It's running Windows 8.1. My experience with Wake on Lan has been poor in the past - the PC seems to wake up constantly with that on. I know I can set it only to wake with magic packets, but can the Fire TV box send a magic packet to wake the HTPC?

NVidia Shield TV is also worth looking at...

Hmmm... not familiar with that. Googling now...

 

[strumpusplunket]

I believe, although I'll have to do some testing to confirm, that Kodi has WoL magic packets baked in. As I said though I'd have to test to confirm.

Excellent! Thanks. Would appreciate that!

 

[strumpusplunket]

It's also a lot more powerful than the thumb drive versions.

As for the HDD, just plug it into your router. Most routers have a USB slot for external drives to turn them into pseudo NAS devices. That way you can watch films on both TVs without having to move the hard drive with the films on.

Once you point Kodi to the hard drive location it'll be like having it attached.

Aha! I've just checked and our router does indeed have a USB slot! I'd never noticed before, or at least never given any thought as to what it would be for.

Brilliant, so I guess I just need a new external drive and a Fire TV box and we should be good to go.

Cheers all!

Oh - I'm assuming the router USB slot should power a portable HDD?

EDIT: Ahhh... actually, it's a BT Home Hub 4 and I'm now reading it has all sorts of issues with drives attached to the USB port... hmm.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Personally I'd go for Plex, but Kodi with a central database would work well too. Then any streaming device will do really, Fire TV, Shield, any cheap Android box, etc.

I like the sound of Plex from what I've read and I think I'll look at it more closely. The issue is going to be the hardware, though, isn't it? As I don't have a NAS and don't want my HTPC always on?

My head's spinning a bit with all the hardware options actually. I'll try to order them:

1. Fire TV box using WoL to wake my HTPC when needed and stream content from there.
Pros: Cheapest option I think.
Cons: WoL sounds a bit flaky from what I've read; wouldn't be able to power down the HTPC from upstairs.

2. Fire TV box with a HDD connected to my router.
Pros: also cheap IF I don't need to buy anything else.
Cons: Home Hub is notoriously bad with USB HDDs, meaning I'd either need to buy a better router or something like a WD MyBook NAS drive.

3. NVIDIA Shield TV with external HDD
Pros: sounds like a powerful and versatile option. Should work with no hassle.
Cons: a pretty expensive option compared to the others (though not if I need to buy a NAS for the others, I guess).

Also been wondering about:
4. Laptop with Chromecast
I've been thinking of buying a mid-range gaming laptop anyway, but not sure how nice/user-friendly an option this would be. Also issues of how my wife would use it when I'm away with work (when I'd take the laptop with me).

5. Raspberry Pi with Kodi and an external drive.
I'm not sure how good an option this is. Not sure if it can really do HD content that well, and not sure how much it all costs once I've bought all the bits I'll need.

Guess I could try option 1 and see how well it works and if it's not satisfcatory, just buy a MyBook. But then I'd probably be frustrated I didn't get a Shield TV in the first place. Also curious how good an option 5 might be...

 

[strumpusplunket]

turn your htpc into a plex server then purchase one of the cheap now tv boxes, you know the ones that come with a free entertainment pass, or a second hand one. will stream fine to your tv in your bedroom. so long as its 1080. also bear in mind if you buy a new smart tv for your bedroom it will more than liekley already have a plex app, so will not infact cost you anything.

Well, that sounds a great cheap option. A couple of questions:

1. If I turn the HTPC into a Plex server, will I still be able to use Kodi as the front-end? I assume so, but not 100% sure.

2. Would I be able to wake and sleep the HTPC from the bedroom this way?

If both of these questions are answered in the affirmative then that sounds potentially the ideal solution!

 

[strumpusplunket]

As far as i am aware(i am prety new to this) you can have both plex and kodi runing on the same htpc:

For example you could use the kodi setup for downstairs and use the plex setup for the bedroom.

I sctualy prefer the look of plex to kodi its a personal thing/choice but its very similar, you click on the side a menu for example movies it brings up your movie collection and they look like mini dvd covers of the film ect ect.

Wake on lan i am not sure about tbh i have never bothered to use this feature my htpc is perm on. and very quite.

There is a prety good plex forum on the plex website.

As with kodi there are loads of youtube vids on using plex and kodi and both together, you could always install plex and see if you like it, no harm no foul, doesnt do anything to your files.

I just use plex all around the house, the only problem im having atm is serving of 4k movies

Thanks! I've been googling a bit since your last post and whilst it's not easy to find definitive answers, it looks like PMS on the HTPC will work fine behind Kodi (hope it doesn't take up too much system resources as the system only just runs Fifa17 that the boys like to play).

Leaning towards the Fire TV box over the Now box, though, since I've seen lots of people complaining about Now's ability to play 1080p content without stuttering and the IQ not being great. Fire TV sounds like it works great with Plex and HD content.

So, once we can move up there it looks like grabbing a Fire TV box and installing PMS on the HTPC should work well.

Oh.. I'll also need a homeplug system to get connectivity up there. I feel a new thread coming on...

Thanks all for your input. It's been really helpful.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Is wifi not reachable upstairs ?. whith my persoanl experiance with homeplugs id rather cable lol. white ethernet cable is easy enough to hide nowadays. but thats jsut me lazy.

Good to hear your sorted. and remember if your going to get a new tv, it will msot proberly have the plex app. most smart tvs now have it.

Yeah, actually it makes sense (of course) to cable up rather than use some wifi extended. I'll try to find a homeplug that can provide both wifi extenstion (for my phone and ipad) and wired connection for the Fire TV.

We will get a new TV, but probably not for at least 6-12 months. Our cash reserves have been pretty much depleted by getting the loft converted! Happy to pay the price of the Fire TV box for now.

Forgot to say, can you post back and let us know how you get on your experiances ect, iw oudl love to see how you get on.

Yes, will do!

Looking forward to trying this idea out (I will earn lots of brownie points from my wife if I look like the expert getting all this sorted...)

 

[strumpusplunket]

So, just returning to this thread as I'm filling my online shopping baskets now and have some final queries for those more in the know:

I was all set to buy the Amazon Fire TV box, but then thought... I'm only going to be streaming from the HTPC and using iPlayer/4OD/etc. so do I really need the Fire TV over the Stick (which is £45 cheaper after all!)?

I've tested my wireless network and am getting 55-100Mbps over wireless in the new room. I'm thinking that should be enough to stream (lossy) HD rips shouldn't it? So do I need the Fire TV for its wired properties over that?

I'm not interested in gaming on the TV or any other functions than catch-up TV services and streaming content from the downstairs HTPC. My budget could stretch to either (or to the Shield TV if it came to that), but hey, I'm tight and want the cheapest option that will do what I need!

 

[strumpusplunket]

Why do you need a HTPC, Samsung TV have all the online TV apps you need plus PLEX?

Shield TV running PLEX server downstairs, job done

I already have an HTPC downstairs in the living room, which we use for a Kodi box mostly (didn't I say this upthread? Apologies if I didn't... life is hectic) and also for light gaming for the kids (Lego games, Fifa, etc.) so it seems easy to use that as a source for the media we already have.

In the new bedroom we will currently only have an old 720p TV (not a smart TV). We will for sure replace it within the next year or two, but not now. So we're looking for the cheapest option that will work well to allow us to stream lossy HD rips from our downstairs HTPC and to use iPlayer, 4OD, ITVplayer, etc.

As I say, I was set on the Fire TV box based on earlier replies, but then wondered if given our specific situation I could save money and get a Fire Stick instead...

 

[strumpusplunket]

Oh yes... the key issue here was whether 55-80(ish)Mbps wireless network transfer speed would be enough to stream lossy HD content over our home network! (It's my last night of work for the week and I may have had a couple of pints so sorry if there's repetition here! )

 

[strumpusplunket]

I could not match the word Roku in the thread - if your tv is older and does not have all the apps, as headrat commented; then Roku (2,4205e or 3) has them all with netflix/amazon+plex(from htpc), 2+5ghz wifi, or plug a usb drive, so that should work.
If you wait a bit may be back to recent £30 deal too.

I did look at the Roku products (sticks and boxes) as a possibility, but the issue I had was that they're not really significantly cheaper than their Amazon counterparts, but the specs do seem quite a lot lower. If I could find a Roku 3 or 2.405e for £30 that would be great, but they're all £60-80 that I can see, which is roughly in line with the Amazon box.

Cheapest options would seem to be either a Roku stick or an Amazon stick. Again, prices seem to be broadly similar for both. Either would probably do, but I'd like to know whether I'm likely to have a good experience streaming lossy HD content and on-demand services over wifi.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Chromecast £30 and you can use Plex with it
Raspberry Pi 3 around £40 for the lot and you can put OSMC (Kodi) onto it

I did consider both of these. In fact, it was my intial idea to use a Pi (liked the idea of having one to tinker with!) and then I moved on to thinking of getting a Chromecast!

What put me off the Pi was just deciding I wanted a simple plug-and-play system that I can be sure my wife will be able to use. When Kodi hangs or crashes on our HTPC I still have to sort it out, so wanting to avoid that!

The Chromecast looks good in many ways - and cheap - but doesn't it rely on using a phone or PC to cast things to it to reach its full potential? I decided again that I'm after a system that my wife will be able to use when I'm away for work.

What I'm really after now is hearing if people have good or bad experiences of streaming media using Plex over a wireless connection. I'm quite happy to punt £40 on a Fire TV stick if it's going to work well over wireless (50-80Mbps connection speed).

 

[strumpusplunket]

I have no problems using 1080p Plex over chromecast or direct to TV App on samsung tv

It's possible I've misunderstood how the Chromecast works. I thought you needed to use a phone or PC to cast content to it or make apps work? Does it have apps built in in the same way the Fire Stick does? So I could switch it on and without using a phone select, say, iPlayer, 4OD or Plex and just have it work?

It doesn't come with a remote, though, does it? So how is it controlled if you don't want to use a phone or PC?

 

[strumpusplunket]

Ah. I was getting a bit confused

Thanks for clarifying.

Noticed I missed a Fire TV box going cheap on the MM this morning! Failing seeing another one there soon I guess I'll just get a Fire Stick and keep fingers crossed it all works out over wifi.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Back to update as promised. In the end we got the Amazon Fire TV stick. Was going to get the Fire TV box and cable up, but decided to see how it worked over wifi since the signal seems okay and if it's not we can always get a box and use the stick in the guest room (which is nearer the router).

It works great, and is a nice little device. Put Plex on it straight away and installed the Plex Media Service on the HTPC. Super easy and quick to set up and streams fine over wifi. I guess if we were trying to stream lossless 4k content or something we'd need another solution, but for what we're using at the moment it works a treat. Really pleased with it.

It even seems to wake the HTPC over the network, which is a nice feature.

The startup times are a little slow, both for the stick itself and the Plex app, but otherwise it's great, especially for the cost.

Although... the stick did just bug out and throw up "connected with problems" "not connect to the internet" problems, which only cleared up when I got it to forgot and reconnect to the router. Hope this isn't something that becomes a regular annoyance.

 

[strumpusplunket]

New update:
The above issue did indeed become a regular annoyance!

To the point I now consider the Fire TV stick not fit for purpose. It NEVER wakes up with a working connection. I have to reset it every time before it will connect. And worst of all, the connection gets lost constantly, but unpredictably. Sometimes we'll manage to get through an episode of something, but mostly now it drops connection part-way through. After our last four attempts now to watch something have ended with it stopping after 10, 20, 30 minutes, we've decided not to keep the damn thing.

Hopefully the Fire TV box will be better, because if it worked properly the stick would actually be a nice device. But with a strong wifi signal in the room and all other devices working okay on the network, the problem has to lie with the device itself and it's just not usable.