Speculation over Webber re-signs for 2013

Acid test? He has been out performed already by Mark in the same car. What more of a test do you want?

I think you are in danger of going down the Arknor cherry picking stats route there.

Yes Webber is ahead of Vettel right now, but over the whole history of their partnership Vettel has been the stronger driver.

Although to give Mark credit, its definitely been a lot closer than 2011 would have you believe.
 
Acid test? He has been out performed already by Mark in the same car. What more of a test do you want?

The test to see if he really is a match for Alonso or Hamilton on a truly level playing field (or as level as it gets)

That said, it would also be good to see Hamilton/Alonso paired. It would be a formidible lineup.
 
The test to see if he really is a match for Alonso or Hamilton on a truly level playing field (or as level as it gets)

That said, it would also be good to see Hamilton/Alonso paired. It would be a formidible lineup.

Did'nt workout so good the first time, saying that, at a different team it could be totally different again.
 
Acid test? He has been out performed already by Mark in the same car. What more of a test do you want?

Out performed by Mark, really, I remember Vettel winning two championships.

Vettel also had a MASSIVE lead and was miles ahead of Webber in Valencia when his car failed. It took Vettel, Grosjean, Hamilton and Maldonado to drop out to give Webber 12 points, he won a race this week and is only 16 points ahead of Vettel.

If Valencia had panned out differently Vettel would currently have 125points and Webber would have 108 points(if he finished 9th).

Vettel has had more poles, and Vettel was picking up more points early season when the car was much less competitive, he managed a podium and a win before before Webber got on the podium, while the car wasn't the best on the grid, and he's had a lot of bad luck in the past couple races when the car has suddenly become incredibly competitive.

Webber might out score Vettel this year, there are still loads of races to go, I wouldn't go saying he's outperformed him because of basically two results, one of which Vettel was blowing everyone away till his car failed.

Which is why its also a bit odd for someone to say the car suits Webber more than Vettel this year, as Vettel has very easily shown far more ability than Vettel to get the all out ultimate performance out of the car than Webber, with several mind blowingly epic qualifying laps and the pace he showed at Valencia was unbelievable, though there is a question in my mind of, was Vettel driving TOO fast and pushing the car too hard in the heat. The failure could be partly his own fault, could just as easily have failed if he was going much slower.

Considering the cars ability, Vettel's ultimate pace, is qualifying ability and most of that when the red bull wasn't the clear best car on the grid, now that it is I'd frankly be surprised if Vettel didn't beat Webber this season, again.
 
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Hamilton won't drive with Alonso as a team mate again. No way.

For me right now it's pretty competitive although Mclaren are behind. Alonso is punching above his weight and shows how exceptional he is in the Ferrari as I think they are - on average - behind the Redbull in overall pace.

I know this goes against the grain slightly and he's one awesome driver (you don't win championships from being just ok), but I think Seb is over rated as a driver right now. In his two seasons at the top, it's been more car than driver. If I had to list drivers out as the current best drivers, I'd have Alonso at the top, but Seb would probably struggle to get top 5.
 
Out performed by Mark, really, I remember Vettel winning two championships.

Vettel also had a MASSIVE lead and was miles ahead of Webber in Valencia when his car failed. It took Vettel, Grosjean, Hamilton and Maldonado to drop out to give Webber 12 points, he won a race this week and is only 16 points ahead of Vettel.

If Valencia had panned out differently Vettel would currently have 125points and Webber would have 108 points(if he finished 9th).

Vettel has had more poles, and Vettel was picking up more points early season when the car was much less competitive, he managed a podium and a win before before Webber got on the podium, while the car wasn't the best on the grid, and he's had a lot of bad luck in the past couple races when the car has suddenly become incredibly competitive.

Webber might out score Vettel this year, there are still loads of races to go, I wouldn't go saying he's outperformed him because of basically two results, one of which Vettel was blowing everyone away till his car failed.

Everyone is pouncing on my statement. I did not mean to imply mark is better than Seb full stop. Of course Seb has out performed over the last 2 years. I mean to say that someone said it would be nice to see Vettel pitched against Alonso/Hamilton to measure his true capabilities. I'd personally say he's up against as it is this season simply against his team mate Mark, and it highlights again how much it has been car over the last 2 years.
Mark has had the same car though you say? Different team running it and Seb has had all the upgrades and stuff first. He's clearly been the "number 1 driver" as stated.

Just saying. Seb = a great driver, but not the best for me. A title doesn't make you the best driver. Button is/was not the best driver when he won it either. His car was fastest and he made the most of it better than Rubens.

The current best driver is Alonso who punches well above his weight with the tools provided.
 
Sometimes Webber is in a different car, but you are also assuming that new parts always work out better, they don't and its only sometimes they don't put new better parts on both cars. Yes they often put a new wing on one car or the other in practice, and see if they can see a noticeable difference with them, but they then often put the new wing on the other car before a later practice session, because ultimately the same driver using both parts tends to be better.

I'm fairly sure I remember Vettel trying a new wing, not liking it and going back to the other one. Ultimately you need the difference to determine if new parts are indeed better.

In general Hamilton and ALonso are deemed better drivers than Webber, and Vettel is deemed better than Webber, hence it would be MAYBE a better competition, ultimately it doesn't work out that way.

At Mclaren Hamilton might spank Alonso, but put both drivers in Ferrari and Alonso might spank Hamilton, at RBR they might both be identical, it could be Alonso spanks Hamilton in Mclaren and vice versa at Ferrari. Different cars drive slightly differently with different strengths.

Vettel has so often shown a pace Webber can't match let alone beat, and rarely has the opposite happened.

Meh, sometimes I want to see a much more limited series with almost identical cars that puts almost all the difference in the hands of the drivers.

As you say, I don't think Button was ever even close to a great driver, I think almost any driver on the grid could have won the title in that car. I think Vettel is much better, because he can put his car on pole with much weaker showings in practice and a car without the lead the Brawn had, but ultimately if it wasn't Vettel it would have been Webber, or whoever was in his car.

This year might be the first year I really think the two best teams have been very close all year(race pace if not ultimate quali pace), just a real shame that Mclaren couldn't make that a real three way battle.

Still, a merrygo round of drivers would be entertaining and shake things up, but knowing how things work out, Hamilton would sign for Red Bull only to see Mclaren have the best car next season anyway :p
 
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Means Hamilton will be stuck at McLaren :(

Also means that the musical chairs shenanigans we were all looking forward to wont happen :(

Was looking forward to this too. Going to be more along the bottom section now im guessing.

I think this, and the potential for Di Resta to take Schumachers seat at Mercedes, are the only changes we are likely to see at the top for next year now :(

+1

why?
he was never going to leave mclaren

+1, i think hes trolling lol. Why would Hamilton be gutted anyway? :confused:
 
Whilst maybe not gutted, Hamilton was most definitely looking elsewhere.

At the very least a vacant seat at RBR was leverage Hamilton could use in his negotiations with McLaren. What's he got now? A hollow threat to join Mercedes as best. McLaren is now his best option, and they know it.
 
Whilst maybe not gutted, Hamilton was most definitely looking elsewhere.

At the very least a vacant seat at RBR was leverage Hamilton could use in his negotiations with McLaren. What's he got now? A hollow threat to join Mercedes as best. McLaren is now his best option, and they know it.

Haven't McLaren already signed a 3 year stupid amount deal last year? or am i mistaken... McLarens a good team, i wish he could stand back and watch how good McLaren really are. Par the problems in the pit etc. He needs to remember who helped him get into F1 and got him 2 Championships.

Although im a little gutted he didnt get to go with RBR. would have spiced it up. And my wardrobe :D been looking at RBR Jerseys for awhile now.
 
Why would Hamilton be gutted anyway? :confused:

It could effect how much Hamilton can demand. Supposedly McLaren want to pay him less. The only big money team he now has as leverage is Mercedes if Ferrari is out because of Alonso. He may decide that Sauber or Williams could offer a good car but they probably don't have the money to pay a lot.
 
I don't think Hamilton will be as concerned as others make out. Like an extra million will matter to him. He's in F1 because it's his dream. He may not show it on camera sometimes, but he is passionate and of course he is grateful to Mclaren. He will most likely stay there and that will be that.
 
Glad he is not coming to Ferrari :D like the guy and he is good friends with Fernando so not sure how that would work in the same team. Also proves Lewis is not going to hand pick his next team as some on here seemed to think.
 
Haven't McLaren already signed a 3 year stupid amount deal last year? or am i mistaken...

Thats with Button. Hamilton is in his final year of a 5 year contract. He has nothing signed for next year.

I don't think Hamilton will be as concerned as others make out. Like an extra million will matter to him. He's in F1 because it's his dream. He may not show it on camera sometimes, but he is passionate and of course he is grateful to Mclaren. He will most likely stay there and that will be that.

Its not just about money though, its about the arse kicking he can enforce too. With a spot open at RBR he could turn around to Whitmarsh and say "look, they are building faster cars than us, if you want me to stay you have to pull your finger out and start building cars that can win every race, or I'm going somewhere else". With no big teams options open to him, he's stuck with McLaren regardless. Hamilton himself says his primary goal for any contract is to be in a car where he can challenge for the win in every race. McLaren are not offering him that at the moment, but he has no options available to him to leverage them to do so. The fear of loosing him may have forced them to up their game.
 
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Yeah McLaren will only up their game just incase Lewis wants to leave, not like they would bother otherwise LOL.

why would mclaren give maximum effort to winning the championship if lewis is locked into a contract? maybe they should have hamiltons contract done race by race so hamilton can apply maximum pressure and motivate the team properly :D
 
Whilst maybe not gutted, Hamilton was most definitely looking elsewhere.

At the very least a vacant seat at RBR was leverage Hamilton could use in his negotiations with McLaren. What's he got now? A hollow threat to join Mercedes as best. McLaren is now his best option, and they know it.

Exactly

Whoever replaces massa at Ferrari will be contractually obliged to be Alonso's water boy. The only person willing to go to ferrari and play second fiddle to alonso will be one of the younger drivers from the lower teams. The big players like Vettel, Hamilton etc.. won't go and play second fiddle to Alonso at Ferrari.

Mclaren know this, and with no seat at ferrari, no seat at Red Bull, where exactly can he threaten to go ?

Given their form this year, Lotus could work, but everybody knows the financial uncertainty at Lotus
 
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