Speeding issue

Ace Modder · 10 Jun 2015 at 10:14

Hi

I was caught speeding on the M6 (didnt slow down for the 50mph limit on the managed motorway at the M6 toll and M42 connection)

This was in Feb, anyway I had a letter come through the post asking me to confirm the driver.

It was me so I did confirm by letter (I have the proof of postage). Anyway its June and I havent heard anything back from it yet?

Should I be concerned? Worth me chasing it up?

I worried they didnt get my letter and at some point I will get a court summons.

Will Gill · 10 Jun 2015 at 10:39

It's only the NIP/ID confirmation that they send quickly, once responded to they have months to send you a court summons or fine & points, not uncommon for it to take 5-6+

Freakbro · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:13

Since you have the answer I'll ask my own Speeding question here rather than start another thread.

Average speed cameras on A roads (The A614 to be precise). I was never entirley sure how they work and somehow stupidly convinced myself that it would average your whole journey along that road, but having just received a ticket

p) I now guess they just work on your average speed between each gantry separately?

Are there any links explaining the law on this?

I guess I would need an expensive laywer to argue the case that if you looked at my whole trip on that road it would have been under the average....

paradigm · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:17

Freakbro said:
I guess I would need an expensive laywer to argue the case that if you looked at my whole trip on that road it would have been under the average....

That still wouldn't negate the fact that you must have logically broken the speed limit at least once during your drive on that particular road.

geekman · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:18

Ace Modder said:
Hi

I was caught speeding on the M6 (didnt slow down for the 50mph limit on the managed motorway at the M6 toll and M42 connection)

This was in Feb, anyway I had a letter come through the post asking me to confirm the driver.

It was me so I did confirm by letter (I have the proof of postage). Anyway its June and I havent heard anything back from it yet?

Should I be concerned? Worth me chasing it up?

I worried they didnt get my letter and at some point I will get a court summons.

What was the alleged speed? If it was above the FPN guidelines then they have 6 months to give information to the court for prosecution.

Freakbro said:
Since you have the answer I'll ask my own Speeding question here rather than start another thread.

Average speed cameras on A roads (The A614 to be precise). I was never entirley sure how they work and somehow stupidly convinced myself that it would average your whole journey along that road, but having just received a ticket p) I now guess they just work on your average speed between each gantry separately?

Are there any links explaining the law on this?

I guess I would need an expensive laywer to argue the case that if you looked at my whole trip on that road it would have been under the average....

Even an expensive lawyer couldn't succeed with that excuse. Assuming they've offered an FPN you might as well take it, but if you're going to be attending court, it would be worth explaining that it was a temporary lapse in judgement as your speed on the entire stretch was mostly below the limit. They won't throw the case out or anything like that, but they make look a bit more favourably upon you and give you fewer points than they otherwise would have.

Scania · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:19

They measure you between gantrys, this is why I never fail to be amazed by the drivers of usually high end stuff who seem oblivious to what an average speed limit is and slam on their brakes before they reach the gantry and speed up after passing it!

Freakbro · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:26

paradigm said:
That still wouldn't negate the fact that you must have logically broken the speed limit at least once during your drive on that particular road.

But isn't that the point....if it's average 50, what's the limit? I could do 100mph for 90% of it then pull up and wait for 5 mins and my average would be under 50 *shrug*

To the others, yea, my comment about the expensive lawyer was just a tongue in cheek comment about how the rich and famous get off with spurious excuses

And I'm eligible for the SAC so I'll take that

panthro · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:28

They have up to 6 months to send you the official notice of intended prosecution.

paradigm · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:29

Freakbro said:
But isn't that the point....if it's average 50, what's the limit? I could do 100mph for 90% of it then pull up and wait for 5 mins and my average would be under 50 *shrug*

To the others, yea, my comment about the expensive lawyer was just a tongue in cheek comment about how the rich and famous get off with spurious excuses

And I'm eligible for the SAC so I'll take that

Erm, I think you are missing the point. The limit of the road is 50, the cameras are based on an average speed check of the same value. If you broke the average speed, you must therefore have broken the speed limit.

Just because in theory you could do 100MPH for half of the distance between two gantry points, then park up for an hour, doesn't mean you didn't break the limit, it just means you weren't caught and there is no evidence to prove the fact. That's no different to breaking the limit on any road and simply not being caught.

Rids · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:29

Freakbro said:
But isn't that the point....if it's average 50, what's the limit? I could do 100mph for 90% of it then pull up and wait for 5 mins and my average would be under 50 *shrug*

To the others, yea, my comment about the expensive lawyer was just a tongue in cheek comment about how the rich and famous get off with spurious excuses

And I'm eligible for the SAC so I'll take that

I think you misunderstood, the speed limit is 50mph. The method they are using to ensure you have not breached this limit is an average speed check between two points.

Ace Modder · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:34

geekman said:
What was the alleged speed? If it was above the FPN guidelines then they have 6 months to give information to the court for prosecution.

72mph in a 50 managed zone.

StonedPenguin · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:36

I was caught in Feb, Attending Speed awareness course next week for 4 hours of propaganda

Freakbro · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:40

paradigm said:
Erm, I think you are missing the point. The limit of the road is 50, the cameras are based on an average speed check of the same value. If you broke the average speed, you must therefore have broken the speed limit.

Just because in theory you could do 100MPH for half of the distance between two gantry points, then park up for an hour, doesn't mean you didn't break the limit, it just means you weren't caught and there is no evidence to prove the fact. That's no different to breaking the limit on any road and simply not being caught.

Rids said:
I think you misunderstood, the speed limit is 50mph. The method they are using to ensure you have not breached this limit is an average speed check between two points.

Gotcha

I know the road quite well and along most stretches between the gantries there are roundabouts etc, so you can exceed the limits at places and still be well under the average, but as Paradigm points out, that's just the fact of not being caught not about not breaking the limit.

And mine was for 58 in the 50....I think there was a point between 2 gantries with no roundabouts

Minstadave · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:43

Ace Modder said:
72mph in a 50 managed zone.

Edit - ignore me.

geekman · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:43

Ace Modder said:
72mph in a 50 managed zone.

Hmm, then I'm surprised you haven't heard from them. They usually offer FPNs up to 76MPH.

div0 · 10 Jun 2015 at 11:44

Freakbro said:
But isn't that the point....if it's average 50, what's the limit? I could do 100mph for 90% of it then pull up and wait for 5 mins and my average would be under 50 *shrug*

To the others, yea, my comment about the expensive lawyer was just a tongue in cheek comment about how the rich and famous get off with spurious excuses

And I'm eligible for the SAC so I'll take that

The limit is 50.

Average speed cameras measure your average speed (between two points) and use that to determine whether you must have (at some point) exceeded the posted limit.

If your average speed is measured at 55mph (between two points) then they know that your maximum speed at any point was at least 55mph.

Sure you could have been doing 100mph and then slowed down, or even stopped. But they still have enough evidence to show that at some point you were driving at at least 55mph and therefore over the posted limit.

SlyReaper · 10 Jun 2015 at 15:07

StonedPenguin said:
I was caught in Feb, Attending Speed awareness course next week for 4 hours of propaganda

Certainly 4 hours of being told things that were true decades ago, but haven't been true since then. Things like car stopping distances, casualty rates for collisions at given speeds. Woefully pessimistic statistics based on the assumption that you're all driving cars built in the 1960s.

Burnsy2023 · 10 Jun 2015 at 15:55

panthro said:
They have up to 6 months to send you the official notice of intended prosecution.

Actually, it's 14 days for the NIP and 6 months to raise a summons. They can't raise a summons after 6 months, so I'd leave it until after that expiry.

snapdragon69 · 10 Jun 2015 at 20:42

With me, I informed them of the driver, but I never received the fixed penalty - after a few months I hadn't heard back and thought I was lucky.
A couple of days before 6 months, I had a court summons because I didn't pay the fixed penalty. Presumably, it got lost in the post but they don't warn you and wait until the 11th hour to take you to court.

Dogbreath · 10 Jun 2015 at 20:47

Freakbro said:
Since you have the answer I'll ask my own Speeding question here rather than start another thread.

Average speed cameras on A roads (The A614 to be precise). I was never entirley sure how they work and somehow stupidly convinced myself that it would average your whole journey along that road, but having just received a ticket p) I now guess they just work on your average speed between each gantry separately?

I believe they can determine your speed between any two cameras in the system, so even if one camera doesn't pick up your plate e.g. because you were hiding behind an HGV, then you could still be prosecuted if your average speed was too high to the next camera.