Spoilers Ahoy!!! Football 22 - Jan 2011

people aren't really entertaining the idea that Arsenal can lose at all, I really don't think they will, but if they lost this game it would be, well devestating for the team I would think. Brum go thinking they'll lose bar a miracle and Arsenal thinking the opposite, we've got several players making a huge deal out of the least important cup and Wenger talking it up as an important step for his young team.

If we fail it will be a complete joke, winning won't mean a whole hell of a lot.

Considering Arsenal used to, and the rest of the top 5 still don't bother with the worthless cup winning it quite literally means best of the rest, personally, considering our squad and where we were not very long ago at all, I think thats a pretty poor statement to be making. Best of the rest, not good enough to win the real cups.
 
drunkenmaster said:
people aren't really entertaining the idea that Arsenal can lose at all, I really don't think they will, but if they lost this game it would be, well devestating for the team I would think. Brum go thinking they'll lose bar a miracle and Arsenal thinking the opposite, we've got several players making a huge deal out of the least important cup and Wenger talking it up as an important step for his young team.

If we fail it will be a complete joke, winning won't mean a whole hell of a lot.
Considering Arsenal used to, and the rest of the top 5 still don't bother with the worthless cup winning it quite literally means best of the rest, personally, considering our squad and where we were not very long ago at all, I think thats a pretty poor statement to be making. Best of the rest, not good enough to win the real cups.
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Yes winning will mean a lot, this is the first Cup Arsenal could win in what? 5 years? The League Cup isn't something to be sniffed at, it's that attitude that devalues it.
 
drunkenmaster said:
If we fail it will be a complete joke, winning won't mean a whole hell of a lot.

Considering Arsenal used to, and the rest of the top 5 still don't bother with the worthless cup winning it quite literally means best of the rest, personally, considering our squad and where we were not very long ago at all, I think thats a pretty poor statement to be making. Best of the rest, not good enough to win the real cups.
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You really need to get over this delusional sense of grandeur just because we did better in the past. You're starting to sound like a piny Liverpool fan ffs.

When Wenger came, for all the right way of doing things and assembling a squad he still was competing against money - aka UTD. Between 1997/1998-2004 we managed roughly half the league titles between us (3/7). Then came Chelsea and all of a sudden it was 2 clubs. We were building a new stadium and clearly couldn't afford anybody but risks with youngsters but still managed an FA Cup, Champ's League and League Cup final.

Then Spurs inevitably found a decent manager to back their spending and while City have become the new Chelsea. So now we're up against 4 clubs that can outspend us who are also vying for the same trophies.

Yes it's a step backward but what can you do apart from moan or donate a handy £100m kitty to the club?
 
Yep, the assumption that Arsenal should just win trophies has been ridiculous over the last 5 years. It's as if everybody has ignored the squads Man Utd/Chelsea/Barca/Real etc have built and just ignored the fact that Arsenal's is no where near as expensive/deep (getting there now though).

Thankfully, most Arsenal fans don't have a sense of entitlement about it
 
It's a joke isn't it? Even if you only counted the last five years, Wenger would be our second most succesful manager of the last 40 years.

With all the trophies he's won AND a win rate that dwarfs nearly everyone else? No contest.

I didn't realise we've never won the League Cup with him though. That's got to be reason enough to go for it. Do it for Arsene, lads. :cool:
 
Tummy said:
Yes winning will mean a lot, this is the first Cup Arsenal could win in what? 5 years? The League Cup isn't something to be sniffed at, it's that attitude that devalues it.
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Greenlizard0 said:
You really need to get over this delusional sense of grandeur just because we did better in the past. You're starting to sound like a piny Liverpool fan ffs.
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My word, it isn't my attitude that devalues it, its quite simple, the top teams in the country do not bother with it, Arsenal were one of those to start to ignore it so completely, NOT ME but MY TEAM.

When the teams above us don't try, and don't care about the cup, as I said, winning it quite literally translates to best of the rest, nothing more or less.

If Utd don't bother putting out a full first team for it, aswell as several others, then how can anyone claim to have just been better than everyone else.

What would happen if one year, Barca, Inter, Real, Utd, Chelsea, etc, etc simply play their reserve team, then Arsenal, or whoever else win the Champions league, its the same even though none of the big teams played a full strength team?

Delusions of grandeur, are you kidding me, I'm not saying we deserve to win something better than the Carling cup, you're talking utter rubbish.

Wenger is insisting a Carling Cup win would somehow prove this team is worthy to win something better, which IS a joke and thats delusions of how good his team is. I'm saying winning the Carling cup isn't a step up, but a step down, not that we should be winning something higher, but its a clear signal our team is simply worse than it was, and that beating a crap Brum in a competition the rest of the top teams don't bother with, means absolutely nothing.

SO Wenger believes it will mean we're a fantastic team ready to take the step up to win a quadruple, I think it means smeg all as none of the best teams even bothered to show up, and you accuse me of delusions of grandeur, seriously?

This is ignoring ridiculous statements about depth/quality of squad. Chelsea never had a deeper/better squad than Arsenals, we've had many of the same players for the best part of 4-5 years already, this is the worst SQUAD and worst quality first team Arsenal have had under Wenger. Arsenal have always had a huge squad with loads of depth, thats how we managed to do something no one else has done, unbeaten season(in a hard league :p ).

Entitlement, show me where I said we should have won a cup. As for the last 6 years, they are the longest period we haven't won anything in what, 40 years or something. As for win rates, doesn't really matter how much you win if you lose every one of the big games that matter, thats life.

So whats worse/better, Arsenal fans who for, what, a decade haven't given a damn about the Carling cup, openly mocked Spurs fans insisting the cup was worthless but now insist its a great step for the team just because we MIGHT win it, or the ones who have the balls to not change their idea's on a whim to feel better about winning a cup no one else cares about.
 
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It's just a bat that the hacks can beat Arsenal over the head with. There is no entitlement and to suggest there is is ludicrous but they need something. Any supporter who suggests it hasn't been a supporter for very long.

Look at our record before Arsene. We won things yes, but it is very sparodic and there were long periods with nothing. I remember a lot of the period between 71 and 88. One FA Cup in all of that time while playing some dire football. Barcelona did something similar to us in the late 90's and won little. I wonder what the reaction in Spain was at the time.

I think the League Cup is very important to us. We have the squad now (how many teams can make 8 changes and still have a very recognisable looking first 11?), all we need is the mentality and experience that comes from winning a cup regardless of what it is.
 
drunkenmaster said:
My word, it isn't my attitude that devalues it, its quite simple, the top teams in the country do not bother with it, Arsenal were one of those to start to ignore it so completely, NOT ME but MY TEAM.

When the teams above us don't try, and don't care about the cup, as I said, winning it quite literally translates to best of the rest, nothing more or less.

If Utd don't bother putting out a full first team for it, aswell as several others, then how can anyone claim to have just been better than everyone else.

What would happen if one year, Barca, Inter, Real, Utd, Chelsea, etc, etc simply play their reserve team, then Arsenal, or whoever else win the Champions league, its the same even though none of the big teams played a full strength team?

Delusions of grandeur, are you kidding me, I'm not saying we deserve to win something better than the Carling cup, you're talking utter rubbish.

Wenger is insisting a Carling Cup win would somehow prove this team is worthy to win something better, which IS a joke and thats delusions of how good his team is. I'm saying winning the Carling cup isn't a step up, but a step down, not that we should be winning something higher, but its a clear signal our team is simply worse than it was, and that beating a crap Brum in a competition the rest of the top teams don't bother with, means absolutely nothing.

SO Wenger believes it will mean we're a fantastic team ready to take the step up to win a quadruple, I think it means smeg all as none of the best teams even bothered to show up, and you accuse me of delusions of grandeur, seriously?

This is ignoring ridiculous statements about depth/quality of squad. Chelsea never had a deeper/better squad than Arsenals, we've had many of the same players for the best part of 4-5 years already, this is the worst SQUAD and worst quality first team Arsenal have had under Wenger. Arsenal have always had a huge squad with loads of depth, thats how we managed to do something no one else has done, unbeaten season(in a hard league :p ).

Entitlement, show me where I said we should have won a cup. As for the last 6 years, they are the longest period we haven't won anything in what, 40 years or something. As for win rates, doesn't really matter how much you win if you lose every one of the big games that matter, thats life.

So whats worse/better, Arsenal fans who for, what, a decade haven't given a damn about the Carling cup, openly mocked Spurs fans insisting the cup was worthless but now insist its a great step for the team just because we MIGHT win it, or the ones who have the balls to not change their idea's on a whim to feel better about winning a cup no one else cares about.
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The teams above us don't care about this cup then? Winners from previous 9 seasons:

Man Utd: 3
Spurs: 1
Chelsea: 2
Middlesborouigh: 1
Liverpool: 1
Blackburn: 1

So teams from the old big four/current big 5 have won the CC 7 of the nine previous seasons. Were Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea the best of the rest when they won it then?

Usual claptrap from DM.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Entitlement, show me where I said we should have won a cup. As for the last 6 years, they are the longest period we haven't won anything in what, 40 years or something. As for win rates, doesn't really matter how much you win if you lose every one of the big games that matter, thats life.
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We won nothing between 71-78 and 80-87 and a cup winners cup between 93/94 and 97/98 when Wenger came in and revolutionised the club.

God knows how you would have coped during the 50's and 60's.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
So whats worse/better, Arsenal fans who for, what, a decade haven't given a damn about the Carling cup, openly mocked Spurs fans insisting the cup was worthless but now insist its a great step for the team just because we MIGHT win it, or the ones who have the balls to not change their idea's on a whim to feel better about winning a cup no one else cares about.
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Wait, you mean we mocked our rivals? Over something that we might not have meant???

STOP THE PRESS.

Also the win rate was pointing out that it might actually be tougher to win the title in recent years, on the back of how Chelsea/Man Utd have been very dominant some seasons. But I'm sure you'll have a stat/spout nonsense about how thats not the case.
 
B1gbeard said:
We won nothing between 71-78 and 80-87 and a cup winners cup between 93/94 and 97/98 when Wenger came in and revolutionised the club.

God knows how you would have coped during the 50's and 60's.
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Unless I'm mistaken too, if you count 71-89 as one big block, there's only one FA Cup win in there too. Which is apparently not good enough for DM as it is.

Eighteen years and one trophy? SACK THE BOARD.
 
Weebull said:
FIVE YEARS OF HURT
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Dont you mean 5 yrs of butthurt??:p

Actually relieved that we got to the final of the Carling Cup...sure its not a major cup compared to the CL or FA Cup but its a trophy nonetheless...something that we have gone a lot of years without so hopefully barring a disaster on the 27th of this month, we should be adding the Carling cup to our cabinet.

Who knows maybe just maybe winning the CC will spur us on to getting the FA Cup and Prem title...i cant see us getting past Barca in the CL, thanks to our shoddy end to the group stage of the CL....where we should have won that group easily.
 
Weebull said:
Unless I'm mistaken too, if you count 71-89 as one big block, there's only one FA Cup win in there too. Which is apparently not good enough for DM as it is.

Eighteen years and one trophy? SACK THE BOARD.
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I know people get offended by it but its why fans get questioned about how long they have been with the club. Its hard to see how some supporters can be in their 30's-40's and have the attitude they do.

Our record of 13 league titles and 10 FA Cup's is slightly misleading over the full course of the history of the club.

Chapman - 5 titles in 8 years although officially only 2 for Chapman (his team pretty much won the others) before he died plus an FA Cup.

Graham - 2 titles, 1 FA Cup and 2 League Cups.

Wenger - 3 titles and 4 FA Cups.

That leaves slim pickings for the other managers. So in 124 years there have been 3 bumper periods. Honours are spread out thinly between these periods.
 
I see Xavi's almost romantic obsession with Fabregas has started again now the game draws near. It'd make our task a lot easier if you saved it for the game and spent 180mins bent over asking for Cesc's DNA.
 
Somnambulist said:
I see Xavi's almost romantic obsession with Fabregas has started again now the game draws near. It'd make our task a lot easier if you saved it for the game and spent 180mins bent over asking for Cesc's DNA.
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It's easy to get angry, but think about it, can you blame him? Cesc is amazingly amazing, what's not to want/love/need/crave
 
Of course he'll go there eventually, it's just boring having to listen to one player go on and on and on about it like a broken record, especially after suffering a whole summer of it. The club put in two bids which by all accounts were insultingly low given both how good the player is and how many years he has left at the top. If they want him then they can pay what he's worth, not keep saying 'Cesc definitely wants to come to Barca, Arsenal should just let him go!' in an attempt to try and get him at a discount.
 
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