Star Trek: Picard

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That's fair enough. I really don't mind them trying to add a bit of humour to but it just felt so out of place. Didn't like it

I think its because fans criticised Discovery as being too serious with too much pew-pew,so Picard has gone much slower with less pew-pew but with more humour,especially as many praised The Orville as it was less serious.

My favourite Star Trek is TNG, DS9 and Voyager. The rest are just not no way near as good as far as I am concerned. Star Trek Picard included (so far).

In order to make this show more enjoyable I have decided to consider it a different universe and not the one the Picard and Starfleet I remember are from. It does help make it more enjoyable for sure. Will definitely continue watching.

TNG took nearly 2 seasons to get upto speed,as fans were moaning about it until the end of season 2 back in the day...this is only 5 episodes in. Voyager was also criticised back in the day was pretty much thought in the same vein as Enterprise was.

Also my viewpoint is you need to look what has happened since TNG and TOS - the Federation is a battered state. First it was the Klingon war,then the Romulan war,and they had the double hits of the Dominion war and the Borg. So Starfleet has lost 1000s of ships,100000s or even millions of people,100s of worlds attacked and the attack which destroyed Mars and the shipyards was the final straw as it was so close to home. They have seriously lost confidence.

Its no different to what happens in the realworld,ie,the US retreating inwards after WW1.

 

[TNA]

I think its because fans criticised Discovery as being too serious with too much pew-pew,so Picard has gone much slower with less pew-pew but with more humour,especially as many praised The Orville as it was less serious.



TNG took nearly 2 seasons to get upto speed,as fans were moaning about it until the end of season 2 back in the day...this is only 5 episodes in. Voyager was also criticised back in the day was pretty much thought in the same vein as Enterprise was.

Also my viewpoint is you need to look what has happened since TNG and TOS - the Federation is a battered state. First it was the Klingon war,then the Romulan war,and they had the double hits of the Dominion war and the Borg. So Starfleet has lost 1000s of ships,100000s or even millions of people,and the attack which destroyed Mars and the shipyards was the final straw.

Its no different to what happens in the realworld,ie,the US retreating inwards after WW1.

Not convinced it would end up like what we are seeing. Too cringe worthy. So best I imagine it is a different universe.

Not surprised, is it not the same show runner as Discovery? That has the ultimate cringe added in for certain audiences and is known as Tilly...

 

[Werewolf]

http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/galaxy.html

Everyone knows a galaxy class starship has 12 shield generators.

Jesus, basic knowledge...

12 shield generators and one toilet from memory...

but 12 would go well with the how a shot could take the overall strength down, but potentially also allow another shot through if it created a weak point in the shield.

Also does that mean 6 each for the saucer section and the engine section or some other distribution, as the saucer section would likely need fewer when it's on it's own than the engineering section (simplier shape), but would they be in the right place to give sufficiently even coverage in both scenarios

IIRC before they started filming TNG they hadn't actually got any of those details worked out, so a lot of it was done on the fly, like how the deflector dish could be detatched when needed which I think was only ever mentioned in first contact (and makes no sense from a design or use point of view to have it so you could effectively remove a major part of the ship with a handful of bolts).

 

[Efour]

I agree with you to some extent CAT-THE-FIFTH , the federation could well be in a different place/state after 20 years. 100% acceptable but,
we all know the show isn't based on that premise. That is far too intelligent and would have to show some decent continuity.

THey could have put a single overlay up at the start of the series.... It could have joined/papered over the period in time

"The past 20 years have been tough on the federation and its member planets, Star-fleet is still under strength from the Dominion war...." blah blah blah
For the first time in blah blah years the federation is looking after its own and its old selfless values are undergoing a revision." blah blah.

Hell they could have done this properly in San Francisco but instead they had the women swearing and talking him down instead for some reason.... They are both of the same generation, it could have been done better and properly" Shear hubris my ass!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not convinced it would end up like what we are seeing. Too cringe worthy. So best I imagine it is a different universe.

Not surprised, is it not the same show runner as Discovery? That has the ultimate cringe added in for certain audiences and is known as Tilly...

Will it though?? Look in Babylon 5 - the Earth Alliance were the good guys who fought to defeat the Dilgar,but when humanity was nearly wiped out in the Earth-Minbari war,the idealism started to wear thin and humanity looked inwards. The fact is in the realworld this is what happened. The US entered WW1 with idealism,and by the end they lost so many people they retreated inwards until WW2 forced them out of their slumber. Look even know - decades of the UK and US at war abroad,has meant so many don't want us to be involved abroad.....its actually not realistic to have a Federation where 100s of 1000s or even millions of people have died or been assimilated for them to not be affected.

Then look at the Dominion war - the Federation were almost pushed to the edge of defeat,and at the same time the Borg were wiping out worlds and fleets. Plus if we go back to Enterprise which is canon,the Romulan Star Empire fought a deadly war with the Federation,and then helped the Klingons against the Federation and have never been trusted since. So what do you expect,when the Federation has been almost been beaten to the edge of submission,then has to help a non member who has a history of war with them and helping their enemies who has never been a reliable ally. The Klingons also don't trust the Romulans and only had a marriage of convenience against the Federation as a common enemy....they consider them dishonourable,and you need to also consider how many other races apart from humanity might not even like Romulans. Also consider the Romulans are enemies until the event which happened,unlike the Klingons who made peace by then,so imagine the internal conflict between member states on whether the Romulans should be helped as a non-member state especially with that history. The Romulans brought the Federation and the Klingons together:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Narendra_III

Now think what would happen,when after building the fleet,enemies destroyed it,Mars and 100000 people killed.

The existing naysayers would have thought,enough is enough - we already are stretched thin and this disaster would not have happened if we chose to not help,and since we don't know what this threat is we need to protect Federation space,not non-aligned worlds...we protect our own first.

The mirror universe episodes show how much one event could have changed humanities direction towards good,so its more surprising how so many people have died,and so many worlds have been affected,that everyone in 1980s and 1990s Trek just accept it and don't even shed one tear.

I don't understand all the moaning about Tilly...so how is she any different than Wesley from TNG....there were so many cringeworthy moments in TOS,TNG and Voyager. DS9 and Enterprise were probably the ones which pushed a more serious tone. Then if you watch TOS and fast forward to the 1980s and 1990s Trek,its very different in tone....like they are different series made in a different era...the Rick Bergman and Brannon Braga era,the later films which had the original Enterprise crew were different in tone to TOS and the Animated series. Star Trek Phase 2 would have been different in tone to TOS or TNG.

I agree with you to some extent CAT-THE-FIFTH , the federation could well be in a different place/state after 20 years. 100% acceptable but,
we all know the show isn't based on that premise. That is far too intelligent and would have to show some decent continuity.

THey could have put a single overlay up at the start of the series.... It could have joined/papered over the period in time

"The past 20 years have been tough on the federation and its member planets, Star-fleet is still under strength from the Dominion war...." blah blah blah
For the first time in blah blah years the federation is looking after its own and its old selfless values are undergoing a revision." blah blah.

Hell they could have done this properly in San Francisco but instead they had the women swearing and talking him down instead for some reason.... They are both of the same generation, it could have been done better and properly" Shear hubris my ass!

I agree,but I think to some degree it is hinted...we need to protect our own and star fleet is stretched. Its basically said in the latest episode star fleet hasn't got enough ships to police large areas of space now,ie,the former Romulan neutral zone.

The exposition should have been handled better though although this is an issue I find with many TV shows,and these short seasons which don't help too.So its all rushed though.

The Romulans have a cheqeured history and have been enemies much longer with the Federation than the Klingons,and they helped the Klingons against the Federation,then betrayed the Klingons. During the Dominion war they also shared their cloaking technology once,and stopped the Federation on developing its own threatening war...all because they were more concerned with their own superiority. Imagine if the Federation had access to widespread cloaking technology against the Borg and Dominion? There are a lot of threads which could have been expanded on like this,but with only 10 episodes to do all this it is really not enough IMHO.

Its also affecting series such as The Expanse...which would really use 20 episodes a season IMHO.

 

[TNA]

Will it though?? Look in Babylon 5 - the Earth Alliance were the good guys who fought to defeat the Dilgar,but when humanity was nearly wiped out in the Earth-Minbari war,the idealism started to wear thin and humanity looked inwards. The fact is in the realworld this is what happened. The US entered WW1 with idealism,and by the end they lost so many people they retreated inwards until WW2 forced them out of their slumber. Look even know - decades of the UK and US at war abroad,has meant so many don't want us to be involved abroad.....its actually not realistic to have a Federation where 100s of 1000s or even millions of people have died or been assimilated for them to not be affected.

Then look at the Dominion war - the Federation were almost pushed to the edge of defeat,and at the same time the Borg were wiping out worlds and fleets. Plus if we go back to Enterprise which is canon,the Romulan Star Empire fought a deadly war with the Federation,and then helped the Klingons against the Federation and have never been trusted since. So what do you expect,when the Federation has been almost been beaten to the edge of submission,then has to help a non member who has a history of war with them and helping their enemies who has never been a reliable ally. The Klingons also don't trust the Romulans and only had a marriage of convenience against the Federation as a common enemy....they consider them dishonourable,and you need to also consider how many other races apart from humanity might not even like Romulans. Also consider the Romulans are enemies until the event which happened,unlike the Klingons who made peace by then,so imagine the internal conflict between member states on whether the Romulans should be helped as a non-member state especially with that history. The Romulans brought the Federation and the Klingons together:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Narendra_III

Now think what would happen,when after building the fleet,enemies destroyed it,Mars and 100000 people killed.

The existing naysayers would have thought,enough is enough - we already are stretched thin and this disaster would not have happened if we chose to not help,and since we don't know what this threat is we need to protect Federation space,not non-aligned worlds...we protect our own first.

The mirror universe episodes show how much one event could have changed humanities direction towards good,so its more surprising how so many people have died,and so many worlds have been affected,that everyone in 1980s and 1990s Trek just accept it and don't even shed one tear.

I don't understand all the moaning about Tilly...so how is she any different than Wesley from TNG....there were so many cringeworthy moments in TOS,TNG and Voyager. DS9 and Enterprise were probably the ones which pushed a more serious tone. Then if you watch TOS and fast forward to the 1980s and 1990s Trek,its very different in tone....like they are different series made in a different era...the Rick Bergman and Brannon Braga era,the later films which had the original Enterprise crew were different in tone to TOS and the Animated series. Star Trek Phase 2 would have been different in tone to TOS or TNG.



I agree,but I think to some degree it is hinted...we need to protect our own and star fleet is stretched. Its basically said in the latest episode star fleet hasn't got enough ships to police large areas of space now,ie,the former Romulan neutral zone.

The exposition should have been handled better though although this is an issue I find with many TV shows,and these short seasons which don't help too.So its all rushed though.

The Romulans have a cheqeured history and have been enemies much longer with the Federation than the Klingons,and they helped the Klingons against the Federation,then betrayed the Klingons. During the Dominion war they also shared their cloaking technology once,and stopped the Federation on developing its own threatening war...all because they were more concerned with their own superiority. Imagine if the Federation had access to widespread cloaking technology against the Borg and Dominion? There are a lot of threads which could have been expanded on like this,but with only 10 episodes to do all this it is really not enough IMHO.

Its also affecting series such as The Expanse...which would really use 20 episodes a season IMHO.

Will have to agree to disagree on this occasion. Can't stand Tilly. Can't believe you compared her to Wesley.

 

[StriderX]

I agree with you to some extent CAT-THE-FIFTH , the federation could well be in a different place/state after 20 years. 100% acceptable but,
we all know the show isn't based on that premise. That is far too intelligent and would have to show some decent continuity.

THey could have put a single overlay up at the start of the series.... It could have joined/papered over the period in time

"The past 20 years have been tough on the federation and its member planets, Star-fleet is still under strength from the Dominion war...." blah blah blah
For the first time in blah blah years the federation is looking after its own and its old selfless values are undergoing a revision." blah blah.

Hell they could have done this properly in San Francisco but instead they had the women swearing and talking him down instead for some reason.... They are both of the same generation, it could have been done better and properly" Shear hubris my ass!

Why do you need a disclaimer though if you're already a fan of the universe? Why is supposition so awful that it needs that sort of preamble to set people up?

I think that's worse story telling to me, you can argue all day about the Utopian - Dystopian argument, it's a legitimate discussion, I don't think there's a need to hand-hold people though, they can make up their own minds. That said they could have woven it in better through narrative, subtle hints and what not, certainly would be an improvement over 'Hurr, we space fascism now'.

Also needs to be less... space magic explaining things away, like why the Hobus supernova was uniquely destructive? There are some things better left explained and that is definitely one of them.

 

[Efour]

I just want continuity and a sign that the people in charge/writers have knowledge and show respect to 50 Years of something that i like.
Star wars has been wrecked, i just would like Star Trek to not go down that route, or go down it for the a reason that isnt just "explosions and money"
Anyway it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

 

[hominid]

I just want continuity and a sign that the people in charge/writers have knowledge and show respect to 50 Years of something that i like.

They can't even get Chataeux Picard right, they had Picards house shown in TNG, If I recall, but now it's completely different - okay.. I've noticed a few things have changed, or are different, I guess because the 'writers' just didn't know that those things had been established. Like the Romulans in TNG having robotic scientists, and now they haven't had anything to do with it for 100's of years?? As I said, the writers, or at very least the fact checkers(if they even exist), haven't got a clue!

Star wars has been wrecked, i just would like Star Trek to not go down that route, or go down it for the a reason that isnt just "explosions and money"
Anyway it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

We now have Star Trek, with Picard, that likes to torture people, chop their heads off, remember Picard started that whole event by storming in to the Romulan bar(with a nice English sign outside?) and insulting the senator, swearing and a story so thin you can see straight through it.

You are right though, it doesn't matter because it is what it is - and that is not for me!

 

[Iamzod]

They can't even get Chataeux Picard right, they had Picards house shown in TNG, If I recall, but now it's completely different - okay.. I've noticed a few things have changed, or are different, I guess because the 'writers' just didn't know that those things had been established.

It was burned to the ground around the time Generations was set.

Or as a real world explanation, 20 years have passed, the place may have been bulldozed or look completely different nowadays.

 

[fez]

It’s turning into a bit of a joke really. The whole “acting” bit in the cantina was awful and I’m just getting sick of the old man Picard schtick. He was literally the epitome of strength, decisiveness and had a strong sense of what was right. He didn’t suffer fools and he didn’t jaunt around like a bumbling idiot.

I can’t help but feel that Patrick Stewart will regret this. I think that’s the great tragedy of this series. It’s killed the Picard we knew and loved in favour of a pathetic broken man who’s only purpose seems to be a subject of strong women’s ire.

 

[Raz]

It’s turning into a bit of a joke really. The whole “acting” bit in the cantina was awful and I’m just getting sick of the old man Picard schtick. He was literally the epitome of strength, decisiveness and had a strong sense of what was right. He didn’t suffer fools and he didn’t jaunt around like a bumbling idiot.

I can’t help but feel that Patrick Stewart will regret this. I think that’s the great tragedy of this series. It’s killed the Picard we knew and loved in favour of a pathetic broken man who’s only purpose seems to be a subject of strong women’s ire.

People change, especially as they get older. It's part of his character development and to me it's mostly fine. Picard has lost his... strength of presence though.

 

[ChroniC]

It’s turning into a bit of a joke really. The whole “acting” bit in the cantina was awful and I’m just getting sick of the old man Picard schtick. He was literally the epitome of strength, decisiveness and had a strong sense of what was right. He didn’t suffer fools and he didn’t jaunt around like a bumbling idiot.

I can’t help but feel that Patrick Stewart will regret this. I think that’s the great tragedy of this series. It’s killed the Picard we knew and loved in favour of a pathetic broken man who’s only purpose seems to be a subject of strong women’s ire.

Your right. Regardless of age, I'd never believe that he would become a walking joke to people.

 

[SPG]

Indeed, he is an elder statesman and would be revered anywhere he went.

This would have been better left as political intrigued not a federation guardians of the galaxy.

We need new generation of sci fi. The expanse is not good enough either.

 

[ChroniC]

Indeed, he is an elder statesman and would be revered anywhere he went.

This would have been better left as political intrigued not a federation guardians of the galaxy.

We need new generation of sci fi. The expanse is not good enough either.

The expanse is good. It's at least the best of the worst, by a country mile.
If I had to use a yard stick, I'd choose BSG, and I'd say the expanse is a 7/10

 

[VincentHanna]

Luckily the old shows still exist, so I am re-watching DS9 at the moment.

Standard definition, cheap sets, no fancy camera moves and some of the acting is a bit laughable in the early seasons (I just watched Kira "pass out" in S2, E3: The Siege) but it's still great to watch.

Picard is 'ok' but it's not Star Trek.

It's fun to watch the writers of DS9 push back against the prime directive, but the federation still stands up for their values. In Picard they've made the federation some sort of insular, corrupted organisation. It makes no sense to me that they would have simply abandoned the neutral zone when Romulus and Mars were destroyed. Even without their ship building facility Starfleet had 10,000 odd starships. Nor does it make sense that money seems to be a big driving factor now for planets that are part of the federation. Rafi being a drug addict living in a trailer and complaining about Picard living in his expensive chateaux is bizzare for a world with no money:

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Will have to agree to disagree on this occasion. Can't stand Tilly. Can't believe you compared her to Wesley.

People were moaning about Wesley when TNG was new as a pointless kid being added in to appeal to younger audiences. He was not liked that much. People are remembering only nice thoughts now when it wasn't the case back then:

https://trekmovie.com/2010/12/08/wi...es-were-hurtful-talks-nemesis-star-trek-2009/

Wheaton on criticism of Wesley Crusher character:

What I was hearing back in the old days were older people who were just sort of predisposed to not like a young character on a show. I think the writers could have navigated around that and made him more relatable, instead of like an idea, but they had a hard time overcoming a lot of that stuff. And when I was a kid it was very hard. It was hard not to take that personally. Kids are awkward. Kids are insecure. I spent 50 hours a week doing Star Trek when I was a kid. That was really my life. To go to conventions back then and have people criticizing me and attacking me personally instead of maybe talking about the writing, it was hurtful.

Honestly for Trek fans how can some of you not know some of these things?? Sci-fi fans can be utter ********* at times.

As I said years later after all the moaning people suddenly realised he was OK. Also all the moaning about Tilly,its just more of the same. In a few years people will be OK with her. Its happened with every Trek series so far. DS9 was even criticised back in the day. Voyager was criticised as some thought a female captain was being politically correct(LOL) and Tuvok being black was controversial for some.

https://intl.startrek.com/article/straight-talk-with-voyagerundefineds-garrett-wang-part-i

It is a little-known fact that during the first season, Mulgrew's Janeway had a teary eye on more than one occasion, only to be vetoed by the producers and covered up with a re-shoot. If you can allow Captain Picard to bawl his eyes out for 10 minutes over the death of his relatives in the opening of the film Generations, then how on earth can you not allow Captain Janeway the chance to show some genuine emotion?

The only possible reason for why Berman did this lies in the various death and bomb threats that were sent to the Voyager production offices at Paramount Studios over the decision to have a woman in command of a starship. Maybe he was afraid of the backlash of a male-dominated America and molded Janeway into a tough-as-nails Captain devoid of human emotions.

Yes,irate fans made bomb and death threats all over a female captain in a fictional series.

7 of 9 was criticised as eye-candy,T'Pol was criticised in similar ways...now fans have warmed to them. People seemed to have conveniently forgotten how Trek fans have been so judgemental for decades about series and characters which people like now.

Why do you need a disclaimer though if you're already a fan of the universe? Why is supposition so awful that it needs that sort of preamble to set people up?

I think that's worse story telling to me, you can argue all day about the Utopian - Dystopian argument, it's a legitimate discussion, I don't think there's a need to hand-hold people though, they can make up their own minds. That said they could have woven it in better through narrative, subtle hints and what not, certainly would be an improvement over 'Hurr, we space fascism now'.

Also needs to be less... space magic explaining things away, like why the Hobus supernova was uniquely destructive? There are some things better left explained and that is definitely one of them.

Look above at some of my links.....all I have seen with all these superfans on the internet is nothing but moaning about every Trek series for the last 30 years...and then after a few years they backtrack and its not so bad.

In the end what happens they go into overdrive about every little feature,that no showrunner could ever be able to ever accommodate every nitpick so end up just doing things such as the Star Trek film reboot,and ignoring most of the hardcore fans,which further infuriates them.

This is what happened to Star Wars too...the fans started moaning since the prequel trilogy,so they literally remade a New Hope in The Force Awakens,then all the fans moan it was literally the same film and not original,and starting moaning. Then they ignored the fans and decided to do their own original thing,and the fans moaned even more,so they attempted to placate the fans,and fixed the new things from the previous film and then we had the last film and the whole trilogy was disjointed.

It's fun to watch the writers of DS9 push back against the prime directive, but the federation still stands up for their values. In Picard they've made the federation some sort of insular, corrupted organisation. It makes no sense to me that they would have simply abandoned the neutral zone when Romulus and Mars were destroyed. Even without their ship building facility Starfleet had 10,000 odd starships. Nor does it make sense that money seems to be a big driving factor now for planets that are part of the federation.

You mean the Prime directive that TOS and many of the films broke a lot of times...?!

Maybe after loosing so many ships in 2 concurrent wars,maybe they don't have as many ships as you think. The effect of the Dominion war was huge - if starfleet had so many excess ships,why did they need the Klingons,Romulans and every tom,dick and harry non-starfleet race to contribute ships...because they didn't have enough ships.

Its even stated by Sisko in one DS9 episode:

SISKO: A Dominion invasion of the Alpha Quadrant will affect Cardassia every bit as much as it's going to affect us. Besides, we need all the help we can get. The Dominion picked a perfect time to invade. The Cardassian fleet is in shambles, the Romulans are not much better off, and between the Klingon War and the recent Borg attack, Starfleet's spread pretty thin.

Starfleet was already stretched BEFORE the Dominion invaded. Seriously,within 30 years they have the Borg,The Dominion and now this problem.

Also some of you ignore the corruption one event had on how humanity went forward,ie,the Terran Empire. Star Trek has hinted humanity still has negative aspects in them.

DS9 talks about this too.

Rafi being a drug addict living in a trailer and complaining about Picard living in his expensive chateaux is bizzare for a world with no money:

Also,Rafi was living in standard habitation modules(modular housing) - I also don't think its upto the Earth goverment to give everyone mansions,just basic accommodation. You only need to look at the place Sisko owned on Earth(the family restaurant),it wasn't a luxury place,ie,just a normal building and not very big.

You could actually connect with the realworld in this case too - are you telling me rich people can't be drug addicts living on the street??

https://www.npr.org/2009/07/27/111091624/homeless-man-leaves-behind-surprise-4-million

Its called depression. In her case blaming herself for letting down so many people and wanting to be away from society and just numbing yourself with drugs,drink,etc....its happening in the current world.

Apparently humanity is genetically different in the Trek universe - people don't feel pain,anger,depression,regret,etc - considering that genetic modification is outlawed,etc I would argue not.

If some of you think humans are so perfect in Star Trek what about Captain Braxton in Voyager??
Captain Ransom?? Two examples of star fleet officers who went to the dark side. Enterprise hints at it too. Section 31 anyone?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I just want continuity and a sign that the people in charge/writers have knowledge and show respect to 50 Years of something that i like.
Star wars has been wrecked, i just would like Star Trek to not go down that route, or go down it for the a reason that isnt just "explosions and money"
Anyway it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

It hasn't had proper continuity for 50 years though - people were moaning about Enterprise piddling on the past Treks,etc.

There was a lack of proper continuity between TOS/TAS even with some of the latter films in certain aspects,and with the latter series,especially on technical aspects which Trek fans love to pour over.

They also literally brought back two characters from Voyager everyone forgotten about - Hugh and Icheb,which have been not in any Trek series for 20 years.

Also everyone loves DS9 now, right??

People disliked it when it first came out:
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/12/re...p-space-nine-a-controversial-sci-fi-landmark/

The critical and popular response to "Deep Space Nine" was very mixed at the time. The show, in my opinion, was very unfairly compared to "Star Trek: The Next Generation." Given the new documentary and how "Deep Space Nine" is now so beloved, did you have the last laugh?

I don't think I would describe it as having the last laugh. I think that it's a good feeling to see that all the things that I wanted to do with "Deep Space Nine," which at the time seemed to create some very strong counter opinions and perpetual fighting, finally pay off. I always felt that ultimately, in some way, that would be a vindication. But it wasn't really about the vindication. All I can control is how I wanted "Deep Space Nine" to be presented to the public, and I had very strong thoughts about that. I just wanted to feel that I was satisfied with the show, and of course that's easier said than done. There were times we didn't live up to what I had hoped for, but we never gave up fighting and that's what I'm proudest of.

Yep,people were moaning about it too.

People change, especially as they get older. It's part of his character development and to me it's mostly fine. Picard has lost his... strength of presence though.

Yes,and a lot moaning about how he is changed are apparently oblivous to what happens in the realworld as people get older.

I like how some have ignored entirely he has a neurodegenarative called Irumodic Syndrome in this series,meaning he is starting to die,and its affecting him,hence why Starfleet is ignoring him.

It is basically space Alzheimer's.

A lot here are complaining how the show does not respect lore and the writers have no clue:
https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

Irumodic Syndrome is a medical condition, a brain, making the patient suffer erratic behavior, delusions, loss of memory and other similar symptoms.

History

In 2278, the USS Enterprise shuttlecraft Mars near Olympus Mons with Lieutenant Mears and Leonard McCoy aboard. With Mears in critical condition, McCoy sought assistance, eventually meeting an alien named time travel. Irum unstuck McCoy in time so that he could prevent the crash, but the experience radiated an effect through the entire Human genome. The genes of Yvette Picard were altered that day. (SNW short story: "The Name of the Cat")

In Q's anti-time future, Jean-Luc Picard developed the disorder. In the anti-time 'present' of 2370, Doctor Beverly Crusher informed Picard that he had a small defect in his TNG episode & novelization: All Good Things...)

In 2371, Crusher sent Picard's medical data to McCoy, who named the syndrome after Irum. McCoy came up with a research regimen to develop a cure. (SNW short story: "The Name of the Cat")

In an alternate timeline, Picard also developed Irumodic Syndrome, although he continued to work on Project Phoenix. (DS9 - Millennium novel: The War of the Prophets/QUOTE]

Its something mentioned in TNG. He has the condition in All Good Things...! It is surprising the experts here couldn't see that connection with all that canon knowledge they keep saying they have.

 

[TNA]

People were moaning about Wesley when TNG was new as a pointless kid being added in to appeal to younger audiences. He was not liked that much. People are just putting on the rose tinted glasses so much:

https://trekmovie.com/2010/12/08/wi...es-were-hurtful-talks-nemesis-star-trek-2009/



Honestly for Trek fans how can some of you not know some of these things?? Sci-fi fans can be utter ********* at times.

As I said years later after all the moaning people suddenly realised he was OK. Also all the moaning about Tilly,its just more of the same. In a few years people will be OK with her. Its happened with every Trek series so far. DS9 was even criticised back in the day. Voyager was criticised as some thought a female captain was being politically correct(LOL). 7 of 9 was criticised as eye-candy,T'Pol was criticised in similar ways...know fans have warmed to them.



Its not even space fascism - its just all the fans moaning on the internet. They moaned about every Star Trek series to date after TOS and TAS. TNG wasn't proper Trek as it was not TOS,DS9 wasn't proper Trek as it was on a space station,Voyager wasn't proper Trek.....all I have seen with all these superfans on the internet is nothing but moaning about every Trek series for the last 30 years...and then after a few years they backtrack and its not so bad.

Even 7 of 9 was called out by Trek fans in the 1990s as a "cheap trick",and no one wanted "dumbing down of Trek and sexing it up". The same was said of T'Pol. In the end what happens they go into overdrive about every little feature,that no showrunner could ever be able to ever accommodate every nitpick so end up just doing things such as the Star Trek film reboot,and ignoring most of the hardcore fans,which further infuriates them.

This is what happened to Star Wars too...the fans started moaning since the prequel trilogy,so they literally remade a New Hope in The Force Awakens,then all the fans moan it was literally the same film and not original,and starting moaning. Then they ignored the fans and decided to do their own original thing,and the fans moaned even more,so they attempted to placate the fans,and fixed the new things from the previous film and then we had the last film and the whole trilogy was disjointed.





You mean the Prime directive that TOS and many of the films broke a lot of times...?!

Maybe after loosing so many ships in 2 concurrent wars,maybe they don't have as many ships as you think. The effect of the Dominion war was huge - if starfleet had so many excess ships,why did they need the Klingons,Romulans and every tom,dick and harry non-starfleet race to contribute ships...because they didn't have enough ships.

Its even stated by Sisko in one DS9 episode:



Starfleet was already stretched BEFORE the Dominion invaded.

Also some of you ignore the corruption one event had on how humanity went forward,ie,the Terran Empire. Star Trek has hinted humanity still has negative aspects in them.

If some of you think humans are so perfect in Star Trek what about Captain Braxton in Voyager??

Captain Ransom?? Two examples of star fleet officers who went to the dark side.

Seriously,within 30 years they have the Borg,The Dominion and now this problem.



Also,Rafi was living in standard habitation modules(modular housing) - I also don't think its upto the Earth goverment to give everyone mansions,just basic accommodation. You only need to look at the place Sisko owned on Earth(the family restaurant),it wasn't a luxury place,ie,just a normal building and not very big.

You could actually connect with the realworld in this case - are you telling me rich people can't be drug addicts living on the street??

https://www.npr.org/2009/07/27/111091624/homeless-man-leaves-behind-surprise-4-million


Its called depression - you know blaming yourself for letting down so many people and wanting to be away from society and just numbing yourself with drugs,drink,etc....its happening all around you in the current world.

Apparently humanity is genetically different in the Trek universe - people don't feel pain,anger,depression,regret,etc - considering that genetic modification is outlawed,etc I would argue not.





It hasn't had proper continuity for 50 years though - people were moaning about Enterprise piddling on the past Treks,etc.

There was a lack of proper continuity between TOS/TAS even with some of the latter films in certain aspects,and with the latter series,especially on technical aspects which Trek fans love to pour over.

They also literally brought back two characters from Voyager everyone forgotten about - Hugh and Icheb,which have been not in any Trek series for 20 years.

Give it a rest mate. Why do I care about what people thought of this or that back then? I never felt that way about Wesley. I could not give a toss about others thoughts. I will never ever like silly Tilly, her character is utter cringe. Simple as that really.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Give it a rest mate. Why do I care about what people thought of this or that back then? I never felt that way about Wesley. I could not give a toss about others thoughts. I will never ever like silly Tilly, her character is utter cringe. Simple as that really.

Wil Wheaton got so much flack like Tilly did from fans who thought he was a pointless cringe character. It was cool to just egg on him,because it was the done thing. Everyone Trek fan "had" to hate on Wesley as a badge of honour apparently.

Now everyone is OK with him. Its cool to egg on Tilly too(on the internet it seems) - in 5 years time people will be OK with her.

What did the actor say:

What I was hearing back in the old days were older people who were just sort of predisposed to not like a young character on a show. I think the writers could have navigated around that and made him more relatable, instead of like an idea, but they had a hard time overcoming a lot of that stuff. And when I was a kid it was very hard. It was hard not to take that personally. Kids are awkward. Kids are insecure. I spent 50 hours a week doing Star Trek when I was a kid. That was really my life. To go to conventions back then and have people criticizing me and attacking me personally instead of maybe talking about the writing, it was hurtful.

Its common knowledge to the extent even robot chicken parodied it! He has talked about it too - he really got it hard from tons and tons of fans.

The fact is Trek fans have been moaning and whining about all the series we have been talking about,saying the characters have been cringe,the shows have been destroying the legacy and even to the extent of bomb and death threats. Even DS9 was called crap compared to TNG and Ira Steven Behr himself says his view for the show was validated and the fans were wrong. The same fans who were slagging off DS9 saying it wasn't TNG and there was a backlash.

EVERY series is moaned at defiling the legacy of the previous one. Too many here have selective memory and rose tinted glasses at the repeated "backlashes" we have seen at every new Trek series,because it wasn't 100% what the previous series was like. It makes me wonder why some here even watch Trek,if its just backlash after backlash everytime a new one comes on.

This is why we didn't have any new Trek TV shows for nearly 13 years,and Enterprise was shaping up to do some great things before it got cancelled,as the backlash doomed it before it could finish.

I don't know how some of you survived broadcast TV with 20 to 26 episodes a season,and stuff moving at a snails pace,4 to 5 episodes in it seems people can't even concentrate anymore. Series such as Babylon 5 would never survive in today's TV climate - it was glacial at the start. TNG would have been cancelled early too as it took 2 seasons to get warm with fans.