Starting a 10 day fruit/veg juice fast - Few questions

[SkScotchegg]

Check out http://www.leangains.com/ for some good reading on IF

I just read the entire guide on that website, it sounds good and pretty hardcore compared to my eating habits, never done anything quite like that before. I think I'll defo give it ago. I reckon I'll find it really hard though because I'm so used to eating every 2-3 hours during the day.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

It really isn't that difficult. Eat 3 times a day in an 8-hour window. That can be once every 2-3 hours like you're used to. Or 2 meals with a 7 hour gap, or a meal every hour. Just try to fast for as long as possible, and try to keep your fasting times consistent every day. Protein and fat with every meal, taper carb intake down during the course of the day and have your largest meal PWO.

They're the main criteria you need to follow.

 

[WantoN]

I've re-read and will add my tuppence.

The reason I think this is a bad idea, is human design. We were designed as detritivores, picking up whaver we could find, meat, nuts, seeds, fish, fruit,veg and water. We would never ingest large quantities of one thing, and we would certainly never mash them up into a pulp consisting of far more fruit and veg than we could otherwise consume and pump it into our stomachs.

You're taking sugars, and removing them from the cell. Extrinsic Saccharides. These are fanastic for elevating blood sugar and spiking insulin. You're adding milk (since when was this a fruit or veg, it's also got a high insulinemic response), you're adding honey (more sugar) too.

And what do you think detox means? That's a serious question. Because I have no freaking idea. As I said before almost all your cells are renewed over a seven year process. And let's for a moment say you've got toxins imbedded in you at a cellular level, is 10 days of eating nothin (*cough*) but fruit and veg going to make a difference?

Of course fat people lost weight, they stopped eating crap and dramatically reduced their calories. I could put 10 obese clients on the "eat nothing but toilet tissue and EFA pils" diet, they'd lose a crapload of weight, and probably feel fantastic for being 40lbs lighter. Does that mean my new paper and fat diet is the **** and everyone on these forums is a pleb for doubting it? The fact that this diet has been in a documetary and is toted by a salesman come osteo should be enough to set off warning signals.

The diet is so lacking in decent BCAAs you're taking a protein supplement 3 times daily. You are not designed for this type of diet, and there are no benefits. If you want to drop weight fast, go paleo, or even IF (still undecided). At least there's basis in our genetic propensities.


You've come to this forum, one prevalent with people who're passionate (ooo illiteration) about training. We've posted our opinions, and you've reacted very defensively. I have no idea what previous threads you've made, and I certainly don't have any anger towards you. But on reading only this thread, you're completely unwilling to accept the advice of others unless it's sicophantic, pat you on the back nonsense.

If someone came to me asking for tips on an exercise more likely to do him harm with little to no benefit, I'd tell him not to bother and offer alternatves, as theres far more effective, and if he threw his toys out the pram, and refused to accept my advice, I'd react in a very similiar way to that which many in here have. Noones been particularly rude or derisive, people have offered alternative advice. You're unlikely to find a thread full of yes men telling you 'great job' on an internet forum popuated by kowledge people.


PS. FreeFaller : what's the betting I'm back to my old tricks and have killed the thread

 

[Psycho Sonny]

from the above examples, this is not a juicing diet.

this is a smoothie diet, and the smoothies seem to be well rounded.

so long as you have at least one of the following in a smoothie you should be fine:

nuts (peanut butter is just as good)
yogurt
spinach

those 3 are the main protein sources in a smoothie, obviously spinach doesn't go well with a lot of things, but yogurt and peanut butter do.

smoothies are a million times better than juice, if your only consuming liquids.

IF is hard for the first week, but if you get through the first week, your body gets used to it, so for the first week i did a 4 hour window, to be extra hard on myself.

 

[Jay.D]

Detox is not a myth...but your body already does that for you.

Any 'toxins' in your blood (creatinine, urea etc) are filtered out through the kidneys on urination. Your liver deals with other toxins such as drugs or any other foreign molecules, aiming to make them water soluble for excretion again via the kidney or through bile (crap)

The intestines are full of crap...literally...the new crap pushes out the old crap. People who have colonic irrigation have the crap sucked out of them....and you've guessed it the food they eat will turn into crap and refill those intestines!

I'd be wary of the insulin spiking on a high fruit diet, I know for myself that'd have me napping several times a day!

If you're really worried about pesticides and the like supplement with vitamin C, it's an antioxidant (also know as a radical scavenger....basically mops up any free 'radicals') which will do no harm in high doses (it is really water soluble however so your kidneys will kick it out fast...so dont be wasting a lot of money on it).

Hope that helps.

 

[SkScotchegg]

You've come to this forum, one prevalent with people who're passionate (ooo illiteration) about training. We've posted our opinions, and you've reacted very defensively. I have no idea what previous threads you've made, and I certainly don't have any anger towards you. But on reading only this thread, you're completely unwilling to accept the advice of others unless it's sicophantic, pat you on the back nonsense.

If someone came to me asking for tips on an exercise more likely to do him harm with little to no benefit, I'd tell him not to bother and offer alternatves, as theres far more effective, and if he threw his toys out the pram, and refused to accept my advice, I'd react in a very similiar way to that which many in here have. Noones been particularly rude or derisive, people have offered alternative advice. You're unlikely to find a thread full of yes men telling you 'great job' on an internet forum popuated by kowledge people.


PS. FreeFaller : what's the betting I'm back to my old tricks and have killed the thread

I just re-read the last three pages of the thread to remind myself of what I thought when I first checked the thread for replies and saw 13 replies from some of the members of this forum., The impression I got after reading the initial 13 replies was a negative one, and I was also saying to myself...what? The thread was setup for me to ask a couple of questions, I didn't make this thread and ask do you think this is a good idea? I had some questions and my initial questions weren't answered.

To remind you this is what I said in OP:

1)The reason I've posted is to ask people with experience of juice fasting for some advice/tips
2)My questions to you are, which fruits and veggies should I buy
3)Which are cheapest because I'm not loaded
4)And what are good combinations which taste nice?
5)should I do it like this...3 whey protein shakes and 5 veg/fruit juices? as an example? that way I would still be getting some protein as well as the vitamins and minerals from the fruit.
6)Also I know bananas have high carbs so they would be a good choice to add some carbs but what about fats?

Here are just some of the responses I got within the first 13 replies:

IIRC this is the dude that apparently eats 200 eggs a week

210 eggs a week and a diet of egg whites/sardines/fresh baby spinach/oats/fruit/protein shakes/vitamin tablets and wanting to stay clean so not taking creatine.

notsureifserious.

One of the silliest things I've read in a while, thanks OP.

Why don't you just eat a well structured balanced diet that suits your goals These quick fixes don't last you know.

Why are you cutting out everything other than your juice?

Followed up by:

At least you realise you should reduce bodyfat rather than pack on minimal muscle mass on a high bodyfat frame.

Other than that: lolskskotchegg.

I think you should do this. Maybe then you'll exhaust yourself of these stupid diets and settle on something good and sustainable.

What are these 15 minutes of "abs" you do everyday out of curiosity?

As far as I can see the only mistake I made was to use the word juice instead of smoothie and to not state clearly that I was going to do my best to make this a well balanced diet. Yeah I got this idea from a documentary whom used the words "fruit/veg juice fast" but I didnt know the difference between a juice or smoothie. But from some of the replies it looks like what I'm doing will be more smoothies with a couple of juices thrown in.

A lot of the recipes I've seen on many sites suggest to use things like nuts, peanut butter, honey, low fat natural yogurt, coconut milk, normal low fat 1% milk so I'm trying to write down recipies and improvise and throw in some way to make it well rounded and then my usual calories is around 2600 on a workout day and 2000 on a none workout day and I've been losing weight on this diet just fine with my 2 hour workouts 5 days a week.

I was hoping people would replies with experience from going on a detox and also fruit/veg juices and smoothies and share recipes etc.

I'm doing this for a 10 day trial, I'll see how it goes, its just a little experiment, I'm sure many of you have tried different things before with your nutrition and training and then decided its not for you or perhaps you've enjoyed it and merged it into your normal eating habits or training regime.

I'm sure thousands of people try detox diets, or weight loss diets and drink smoothies and juices everyday, and like I said before just because people dont conform to society and do everything everyone else does, it doesn't make them wrong, am sure many of the diets and principles that are used in nutrition and training today was once seen as weird but now accepted as scientifically proven etc. Arnold was probably classed as weird back in the day for his eating methods too.

At the end of the day I'm hoping to complete my body and get it to where I want it to be within the next 2 years, if in 2 years time I achieve this goal, then that means it was all worth while. I want to be 16 stone, ripped and huge, thats my end goal...in a few years time when I look back, I'll think about all the things I did, the different training styles the different eating habbits and one thing will be for sure, that all of what I did got me to this point and where I am now. All the people and the disbelivers that doubted me, it wont matter because I'll be where I want to be.

I even think that now, I look back over the past 4 years, do you know that when I first walked into a gym I was do cardio for 3 hours and then do some weights for 30 mins and then go swimming for 30 mins and then go home, I did crazy stuff like that, I'd get on tred mill and I'd be out of breath in about 2 mins so I'd have to walk, and then run and then walk, I didnt know it at the time but thats what you guys now call HIIT, I guess I just fell into that by luck, but it worked...sometimes I cant believe how much cardio I used to do, and its not wonder I was so weak after when I would try to do weights and would struggle to bench 10kg plate on each side lol.

The point of what I just wrote is, nobody told me what to do, I didnt read any websites back then, I just got in the gym, put my heart into it, and its paid off, I've managed to keep the 6 stone off me for 4 years where as other people fail and quit the gym and go back to their old eating habbits, I've managed to continue and not give in and I'm probably more addicted to the gym now then I was 2 years ago, I get excited before a workout.

Nobody would have ever told me to go do 3 hours of cardio, thats crazy...but I did it anyway and its paid off. We can talk all day about training regimes and eating habbits but at the end of the day hard work, heart and dedication is what has got me to where I am now, and the same hard work and determination will finish me off within the next 2 years.

Like arnie said in pumping iron, "bodybuilding has been a beautifull experience for me and I'll continue it for the rest of my life, its the greatest sport!"

 

[SkScotchegg]

Detox is not a myth...but your body already does that for you.

Any 'toxins' in your blood (creatinine, urea etc) are filtered out through the kidneys on urination. Your liver deals with other toxins such as drugs or any other foreign molecules, aiming to make them water soluble for excretion again via the kidney or through bile (crap)

The intestines are full of crap...literally...the new crap pushes out the old crap. People who have colonic irrigation have the crap sucked out of them....and you've guessed it the food they eat will turn into crap and refill those intestines!

I'd be wary of the insulin spiking on a high fruit diet, I know for myself that'd have me napping several times a day!

If you're really worried about pesticides and the like supplement with vitamin C, it's an antioxidant (also know as a radical scavenger....basically mops up any free 'radicals') which will do no harm in high doses (it is really water soluble however so your kidneys will kick it out fast...so dont be wasting a lot of money on it).

Hope that helps.

Thanks for explaining that to me. Regarding the vitamin C, for the past year I've been buying those tubes of 20 vitamin C tablets for around £1 and usually go through 60 a week, there some great books on vitamin C and the health benefits. From my experience during this past year I no longer get sick or colds because of the vitamin C and it also help give me energy. So I believe the books and the articles on various bodybuilding websites about vitamin C are telling the truth and many people that do take vitamin C dont take enough. I'm practically overdosing on the stuff, I pop one tablet into a pint of water and it desolves and I drink it all day every day. Also it makes a nice orange drink rather then just drinking water all the time.

Regarding the insulin spikes thats what I usually try to avoid with my normal diet and thats what I want to try avoid with this diet too so before I start and before I buy anything I've already been doing research as to which fruits and veg are high in sugar, this is what I've found out so far:

Fruits Low to Medium in Sugar:

Strawberries

Casaba Melon

Papaya

Watermelon

Peaches

Nectarines

Blueberries

Cantaloupes

Honeydew melons

Fruits Lowest in Sugar:

Small Amounts of Lemon or Lime

Rhubarb

Raspberries (more about berries on low carb diets)

Fruits Fairly High in Sugar:

Plums

Oranges

Kiwifruit

Pears

Pineapple

Fruits Very High in Sugar:

Tangerines

Cherries

Grapes

Pomegranates

Mangos

Figs

Bananas

And then I've got a list for vegetables:

Low sugar vegetables:
spinach
lettuce
asparagus
cucumber
radish
cabbage
celery
broccoli
cauliflower
mushrooms.

vegetables highest in sugar:


green peas
corn
winter squash
beets
white potatoes
sweet potato.

So I guess I could try to choose the ones on the list lowest in sugar and to make my recipes around them.

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Jesus Christ. Please listen to the well-informed people here that are kind enough to be offering you advice, for goodness sake.

It's like trying to herd a cat.

 

[SkScotchegg]

Jesus Christ. Please listen to the well-informed people here that are kind enough to be offering you advice, for goodness sake.

It's like trying to herd a cat.

What are you on about now?...Not quite sure where that comment has come from, we've moved on.

There was no arguing or any funnyness intended from my last two post, not sure how you took them.

 

[smit101]

You can't detox the body with fruit/vegetable juice, fats are required for the chelation of toxins from the system.

High Intake of Natural Fats & Oils

High Intake of Natural Fats & Oils (including oil soluble vitamins A, D & E, and omega-3 essential fatty acids)
Nature-made fats and oils are equally important to protein in the diet and they are vital to your health, including butter, coconut oil, fish oil, lard, palm oil, poultry fat, tallow, and other natural fats as well as extra virgin olive oil. These fats and oils not only increase the body's ability to absorb nutrients from foods but also provide the most efficient source of energy for the body compared to carbohydrates.
Carbohydrates require a tremendous amount of body resources and energy in order to be digested and assimilated, whereas nature-made saturated fats go directly into the bloodstream, providing an efficient source of energy and nutrients. They are found in every cell in the body, providing the building blocks for cell membranes and a variety of hormones and hormone-like substances.

Nature-made fats and oils, along with other nutrients, chelates out (get rid of) heavy metals such as aluminum, mercury from dental fillings, nickel, lead, etc. that may have accumulated in the body, and they cleanse the entire body, rebuild cell membranes, etc.
This is because these fats are powerful antioxidants (clean out toxins) and because they increase the production of bile by the liver.
Bile binds to, and eliminates heavy metals. Also nature-made fats and protein stimulate the gall bladder to dump its bile into the duodenum (first part of the small intestines). Bile is essential for digestion. That is why these fats put very little strain on the digestive system, even for people who do not have a gall bladder or have difficulty digesting fats.
These fats act as carriers for important fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K, and for the conversion of carotene to vitamin A, for mineral absorption and for a host of other processes. The kinds of fats consumed greatly influences the assimilation and utilization of vitamin D as well.

 

[MoNkeE]

Yes mate, you keep saying things like "I didn't read up on all the science over the first few years and I still made massive improvements", but you know what, you could've made bigger improvements and faster if you actually listen to people.

The reason you're not getting people back you up here is that there is NO foundation to what it is you're trying. People have tried telling you that this 'expert' you're so keen on believing has no creditation and is probably less experienced in what YOU are trying to achieve than the people on this forum up.

LISTEN to the BODYBUILDERS on THIS website giving you GOOD advice. NOT the advice given by some RANDOM quack who has made a generic 'diet' essentially for obese people looking to shed weight, NOT a bodybuilder looking to maintain muscle mass whilst stripping body fat.

Do what all the bodybuilders and all the professionals do: HIIT, weights, and a high protein solid food diet.

 

[SkScotchegg]

Yes mate, you keep saying things like "I didn't read up on all the science over the first few years and I still made massive improvements", but you know what, you could've made bigger improvements and faster if you actually listen to people.

The reason you're not getting people back you up here is that there is NO foundation to what it is you're trying. People have tried telling you that this 'expert' you're so keen on believing has no creditation and is probably less experienced in what YOU are trying to achieve than the people on this forum up.

LISTEN to the BODYBUILDERS on THIS website giving you GOOD advice. NOT the advice given by some RANDOM quack who has made a generic 'diet' essentially for obese people looking to shed weight, NOT a bodybuilder looking to maintain muscle mass whilst stripping body fat.

Do what all the bodybuilders and all the professionals do: HIIT, weights, and a high protein solid food diet.

But from several replies you've guys have given me you're talking as if I'm not listening to your advice, which I dont understand because I'm not like trying to ignore you or not listen to what you've said but what is wrong with me doing this for 10 days, it wont hurt will it? I've already said I'll make sure I get all the protein/fat/carbs I need and make sure its a well rounded diet as some of you stated concerns that I wont get enough protein or fat, thats what you said and I've listened and I've thought about it so I'll make sure I use olive oil, whey, nuts, peanut butter, coconut milk etc.

 

[SkScotchegg]

I've got one last question if you dont mind clearing this up for me, many of you have expressed concerns about insulin spikes from me overloading my body with sugar. I've responded to you by saying that I've researched and found vegetables and fruits low in sugar such as Rhubarb, lemon, lime and spinach, lettuce, asparagus, cucumber, etc. And I'm taking this extreemly seriously, I'd read about insulin spikes before but have a bad memory so I just found a website and read this article here:

http://fitnessblackbook.com/dieting...n-levels-stop-fat-loss-and-cause-weight-gain/

Is everything that article says true regarding insulin?

Have I got this right in my head = so if eat foods with high glycemic index meaning high in sugar, then my body releases insulin and this means it can no longer burn off fat and therefore wastes my time when killing myself at the gym and this can also have a second negative effect because my body can brake down muscle and use it for energy?

Have I said that correctly?

I'm trying to think of anything in my current, normal day to day diet that could cause an insulin spike, the only thing I can think of that I consume usually is honey, would honey cause an insulin spike? Also I usually eat it in a morning on my oats and then on my second bowl of oats before I go to the gym as I have 2 bowls of oats on a workout day and on a none workout day I either have one or none.

EDIT: Also, how long after an insulin spike does it take for your blood sugar levels to go back to normal levels?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

 

[icecold]

There seems to be no point in giving you advice, possibly you have too many misconceptions about nutrition. It also seems like you don't have a good enough "filter" to identify what is good information and what is bad information.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

There seems to be no point in giving you advice, possibly you have too many misconceptions about nutrition. It also seems like you don't have a good enough "filter" to identify what is good information and what is bad information.

well said. i think its best to let this thread die.

although there is so much BS out there it's hard to figure out sometimes what is true and what isn't, ive certainly made that mistake a few times. even trained professionals dont know what their talking about sometimes.

 

[SkScotchegg]

There seems to be no point in giving you advice, possibly you have too many misconceptions about nutrition. It also seems like you don't have a good enough "filter" to identify what is good information and what is bad information.

What was the purpose of writing that sentence, to have a dig? I've explained myself many times in this thread but you guys get defensive and respond with "your not listening to advice" like those words are all you can think to say when you're wrong.

Even when the thread took a different turn and a different direction and the tone changed people like you respond and then drag the thread back to how it was before, so I agree, whats the point.

Pathetic.

 

[SkScotchegg]

Yes mate, you keep saying things like "I didn't read up on all the science over the first few years and I still made massive improvements", but you know what, you could've made bigger improvements and faster if you actually listen to people.

The reason you're not getting people back you up here is that there is NO foundation to what it is you're trying. People have tried telling you that this 'expert' you're so keen on believing has no creditation and is probably less experienced in what YOU are trying to achieve than the people on this forum up.

LISTEN to the BODYBUILDERS on THIS website giving you GOOD advice. NOT the advice given by some RANDOM quack who has made a generic 'diet' essentially for obese people looking to shed weight, NOT a bodybuilder looking to maintain muscle mass whilst stripping body fat.

Do what all the bodybuilders and all the professionals do: HIIT, weights, and a high protein solid food diet.

In as simple and few words as possible....what are you talking about?


I dont know what you're reading but you're kinda delusional.

This is basically how it is with you guys, I make a post called "Starting a 10 day fruit/veg juice fast - Few questions" you respond with "stupid idea"

I ask a question about insulin spikes, the response from you guys is "you're not listening to advice"...lol, what? Seriously what are you guys smoking?

 

[SkScotchegg]

The only person in this thread that seemed to actually read what I said and understand what I'm trying to say and my point of view was paul, so thankyou paul! Well he's the only person I can remember anyways, there may have been 1 or 2 other good comments.

 

[MoNkeE]

Okay, you're detoxing right? You do realise this requires a strict diet, normally of just fruit or just veg in most of these fad diets right? You've already stated that your goal is to detax thru this veg diet. By following what has been outlined to you in their guide.

But you're then adding olive oil, nuts, whey, coconut milk...... So you're just making up your own diet now, not even following one.

Then you say "10 days won't hurt", yes it will. As this diet is not going to help your body to do anything at all. You're in fact going to be holding amino acids and different types of good fats out of your diet, which will likely reduce your lean muscle mass AND fat, so you'll just end up smaller.

Seriously, this is the least thought out diet ever. The advice you're not listening to is this: you are spending a lot of time and effort and money on this fad diet that is not going to help you achieve your bodybuilding goals. Eat a steak and be done with it!

 

[SkScotchegg]

Okay, you're detoxing right? You do realise this requires a strict diet, normally of just fruit or just veg in most of these fad diets right? You've already stated that your goal is to detax thru this veg diet. By following what has been outlined to you in their guide.

But you're then adding olive oil, nuts, whey, coconut milk...... So you're just making up your own diet now, not even following one.

Then you say "10 days won't hurt", yes it will. As this diet is not going to help your body to do anything at all. You're in fact going to be holding amino acids and different types of good fats out of your diet, which will likely reduce your lean muscle mass AND fat, so you'll just end up smaller.

Seriously, this is the least thought out diet ever. The advice you're not listening to is this: you are spending a lot of time and effort and money on this fad diet that is not going to help you achieve your bodybuilding goals. Eat a steak and be done with it!

Fair enough but I'm a pescetarian meaning I only eat fish and eggs not meat, so I can't eat a stake lol. You've made a good point with the fact that I originally set out to do it more as a detox and any weight loss would just be a bonus but I guess after thinking about it a little bit more, with me doing weight training 4 day split its not going to be practical as I'll probably collapse.

Well, after everything that has been said and done in this thread you have all cast doubt into my mind as to weather or not I should do this. Now I'm thinking of maybe sticking to my normal diet which I believe to be very good and just adding a couple of smoothies in the mix. I guess I'll probably have to change things around a little bit in order to try keep within calorie deficit.

Still confused about the whole insulin spikes thing though.