Storage advice please: data/server/NAS?

alexkyriak

alexkyriak

alexkyriak

Associate
Joined
8 Jan 2011
Posts
368
Location
London, UK
Hi all, would love some advice please. I am pondering what sort of storage I need. I have a large amount of personal data (family photos, etc), some work backups, media files, and a very big Steam collection.

I am debating how to currently store all this. My currently solution is an external hard disk enclosure running in RAID1 which has 12tb. This is not networked.

I have some this data spread over several disks on my desktop PC. So, some of the data is ‘back up’ on the external disk, whilst some of the data on the external disk is only held there.

I feel like I need more storage capacity. Although I don’t think I need to spend hundreds of pounds storing Steam libraries on expensive disks, the flip side is I’d like this data to ideally be accessible via a network - media files, family photos, etc.

I’ll also be adding a second PC in the house and ideally I would want to have global access to all of this data.

Putting budgets aside for one sec, what is the best way to structure this and what is the best solution to accommodate this scenario.

My current thinking is to get a 4 or 5 bay network disk enclosure, and take out the two drives from my existing external disk and supplementing it with two more, to create two separate raid 1 disks (utilising the 4 disks). Although have also been intrigued by to so called efficient of RAID5 vs RAID1 in terms of use of disk space (RAID1 being least efficient).

Would love some advice to help determine the best solution! Much appreciated. :)
 
I guess my other question is: are Enterpise class disks not suitable for home use, or are they ok? Have read they're a lot louder than a 'consumer' level disk. But they seem to be a lot cheaper in terms of pound per tb.
 
Guys, thanks so much for the awesome detailed responses, cheers. A lot to digest, and a lot of confirmation of some of my assumptions also. And more questions also..!

Snapshot said:
You'd need drives all the same size for RAID5 also but I really wouldn't fancy the build time and even more the rebuild time with 12TB drives.
Click to expand...
Apologies for not understanding, but what do you mean when you refer to 'rebuild' time? Assuming I just put the two existing disks I have already configured in RAID1, into a new RAID drive enclosure, does it recognise them as a pair automatically, or does the data need to be 'rebuilt' across the mirrored pair in the new enclosure?


Snapshot said:
Another alternative is to shuck the HDDs from WD Elements external drives.
Click to expand...
I was referring to exactly this when talking about potenitally reusing my existing RAID1 disks - they're currently in a WD Duo enclosure. I was hoping this might be a way to save some money on the overall quantum of storage, but noting the points on this thread re: 2 volumes on two 2-disk RAIDs, vs a 4 disk RAID5. I guess the issue if I went 4 disk RAID5 is that all disk need to be the same?

Snapshot said:
(Wolves?)
Click to expand...
Yes I believe so!

Armageus said:
E.g. Family photos and the like are irreplaceable, but likely don't take up that much room - you should plan to store these in at least 3 different places (e.g. NAS for main access, cloud storage for regular offsite backups, USB drive for less regular cold backups).
Click to expand...

Yes, currently I actually do have these in three locations (at least): on a few backup disks in the safe, on the external RAID1 disk I have, and on the disks in the PC itself. I probably need to sort out cloud storage, but need to look into this: who to go with, whether I already have cloud storage through google, norton, etc. My photos from iphone are also on icloud - but not all of my DSLR shots (obviously). However, I would like to be able to access these from other locations and devices, such as the big tv in the living room, or other networked devices, that sort of thing.


Armageus said:
The disadvantage is that you end up with 2 separate volumes and so can't necessarily make as effective use of the same space (e.g. you might have a 12TB volume full of Media and have run out of room, but still have 90% free on your "personal" volume.)
Click to expand...
This is quite an astute point actually, I know what you mean, I have encountered similar 'problem' to this in the past.


Armageus said:
If data is only on the external disk, it isn't in any way protected. As above categorise your data and consider where to store each category.
Click to expand...
I should have qualified my statement: this meant that only the Media files are held on the external disk, on the basis they're relatively easy to re-rip and not precious like family photos, etc.


Armageus said:
Finally, stuff like steam collections take up huge amounts of space, but are easily redownloaded (especially given faster internet speeds), so aren't particularly good value in terms of using NAS storage etc.
Click to expand...
True, I guess I have an old school mentality of "I must own the game - physically". Spot the contradictions running amok there... Yes they're redownloadable, I guess I shouldn't worry about Steam disappearing overnight in some sort of apolocalypse. Interesting reading online about people's approach to this, I've seen many having to ensure local copies are always retained. But given this is by far the biggest volume of data I'd be storing, I shouldn't let this drive the cost of the overall solution, doesn't make sense.

I also have a bunch of non-critical stuff that I like to keep a backup of at least: small projects, random information, etc. This I can manage easily without the full-on deployment of expensive storage.

In terms of planning for drive failures, I need to understand this a but more, but clearly my setup is not 'mission critical', it's more about maintaining a clear backup of anything valuable in case of any single failure, and being able to access information in a networked way. Discounting the Steam issue for a second. My work files are easily backed-up, I would not be relying on this storage solution to host my work stuff. Just need a reliable backup in case of failure, but it's not mission critical.

So, I was considering something like Asustor NIMBUSTOR 4 AS5304T 4 Bay NAS Enclosure, or Synology DS418 4 Bay Desktop NAS Enclosure. Or perhaps a 5 bay unit like TerraMaster F5-221 NAS 5, depending on how I setup the RAID.
 
One thing I forgot to mention. I've never actually run a 5400 speed disk ever in any pc I've owned (up until I started using SSDs back in 2016), but for NAS setup for media and data backup, is 5400 a big no-no, or is it tolerable? Cost differentials make it interesting on paper.
 
Ok. Thanks snapshot. I don’t think I get what ‘optimised for nas’ means. As in, how is a disk of a certain speed and capacity differentiated between desktop and nas use (or any other for that matter). Other than it saying it’s a nas drive in the description, what are the differentiators? Thanks :)
 
Thank you all for the insight. Really useful.

Considering RAID5 as the configuration: I have narrowed it down to two possible options; 5x8tb drives vs 4x10tb drives. The 8tb drive option achieves 32tb and is way cheaper than a 5x10tb solution, which would get 40tb capacity, and is still quite a bit cheaper than the 4x10tb option which would get 30tb.

So more smaller, and cheaper, drives gets a slightly better capacity. But it uses more drives.

The 8tb option is taking advantage of some good deals on that particular big name brand of NAS drive it has to be said.

Am I missing something here in terms of assessment of price to performance and considerations for redundancy, different number of disks, usage, etc?

Thanks :)
 
Armageus said:
Either that or buy a cheaper 2 bay NAS and run it in RAID1 for irreplacable data, and a separate 4 bay NAS in RAID5 for your less important media etc to maximise capacity.
Click to expand...
Quartz said:
Don’t. Mirror or RAID 6 / Z2. The problem is the Uncorrectable Bit Error Rate and the rebuild time. Today’s high capacity drives leave RAID 5 vulnerable to errors during the rebuild process which can take a very long time.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm getting a strong whiff of "RAID5 = bad". I have been reading up on this, I can see the point. Is 8tb/10tb classed as "high capacity"?

@Armageus I quite like the concept of 2 bay nas for RAID1 and 4 bay NAS for RAID5, partly on the basis I'd quite like to use my existing drives from the WD duo for a RAID1. I think I have read that in a 6 bay station I could run two RAID volumes, is that correct? Ie out of 6 disks, 2 in RAID1, and 4 in another RAID config: 5,6,etc? Or, at this juncture, I could go the DIY route and set up a small dedicated PC build running as a NAS box.
 
Considering a self build nas box around an i3 intel BX8070110100 or a 10th gen i5 10400. Any opinion on these CPUs? And a decent motherboard? Will need 6x sata ports, and two m.2 nvme. Finding it hard to work out what’s the best motherboard for this type of setup. Also thinking to have the cpu with iGPU capabilities Thanks guys :)

Will need 2x m.2 slots. One of them I could populate with a SATA IO daughterboard to achieve the SATA ports required. Thinking a 5 drive system running RAID6.
 
Having a hard time finding a good combo of either intel or amd. I wanted to get a cpu with display abilities (either an igpu intel cpu, or g-type amd cpu), and a mini-itx mobo with 2 m.2 slots (1 for cache, 1 for sata riser io), relatively minimal on power consumption, and relatively cheap. Can't seem to find anything that ticks all the boxes, and in stock, at the same time! Ideally after an i3 10th gen, or, equivalent amd spec. Any pointers most appreciated, cheers. To fit in an N1 Jonsbo mini itx 5 disk chassis.
 
Great idea on the PCIe SATA cards. Just checking these out, not all support RAID it seems, though? Or at least, some seem to support "soft" RAID, and some support RAID1, but not RAID6. Will keep checking but can't see anything that states it'll do RAID6.

Edit: Aaaanddd... RAID6 needs to be specifically supported by the motherboard? Yikes, that makes it harder again. Hadn't realised some boards only support RAID0/1/5/10
 
Hey thanks for that. Hadn’t fully appreciated how the management side works. Yes was planning to run TrueNAS and as you say it has its own system. Need to read up more on the set up clearly! But Z2 is what I’ll opt for. Much appreciated.
 
Couple more questions please lads:

1. For a NAS is there any benefit of going to an nvme drive for the OS, or is standard SSD fine? I assume the latter?

2. Does a home NAS benefit from a cache disk? If so, nvme or ssd? Have read that for consumer media use, it's not necessarily a benefit. Linus Tech Tips added an optane 32gb nvme as a cache to their N1 NAS build, but didn't really explain why. Mu intended usage will be for media server and a file storage (photos, some light work, general files).

3. My disks arrived, but won't be assembling the rest of the NAS until I sort out the motherboard and cpu selection. I presume good practice is that I should test them first in a caddy on another pc.

4. Any technical reason why it would be bad to run an 11th gen z590 motherboard but with 10th gen i3 cpu? EDIT: some z590 boards running 10th gen cpus seem to limit the ram speed

EDIT: Eyeing a H510M-ITX/AC Asrock H510M-ITX motherboard.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Thanks @Snapshot , I was thinking 8gb should be sufficient.

I have a motherboard on its way, with 4 sata ports onboard, and will put in a spare sata pcie I have which has ports on it also. If I don’t go for cache nvme I could go either ssd or nvme for the OS

Edit: Could I get one stick of ram instead of two? Presume no performance loss if I went one stick?
 
Last edited:
OK so kit all arrived. Jonsbo N1 chassis, i5-10600 10th gen Intel CPU, z590i Aorus Ultra ITX mobo, thermaltake 550w SFF PSU, 16gb 2400 DDR4 RAM (from 2x8gb sticks, I know, possibly overkill), 256gb nvme OS disk (hard to get smaller for almost the same dosh), 5x12tb IronWolf drives, and a wing and a prayer. Will assemble in the next week or so hopefully. No cache drive - apparently not needed for my use case. Aiming for a RAID6-a-like setup in True NAS.
 
Last edited:
Hi, have been wondering about VMs and a good use for them. Could you possibly help educate me a bit on this? Ie, good use cases, benefits for setting these up, etc. Am reading up on this prior to deciding on the setup to deploy, it's a big arena with a lot of information to understand and digest, and a bit daunting; any advice or pointers would be much appreciated. Cheers :)
 
Last edited:
Ok the Jonsbo N1 and kit all built and installed. Lovely equipment actually, really enjoyed putting this all together, really clever design and nice and good feel and quality. Haven't run it yet, still considering best way to set it up, but thinking TrueNAS.

So not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but: Plex or Jellyfin? What's the consensus amongst the OCUK Forumers? Cheers.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom