Strange image retention problem on plasma screen

FrenchTart · 15 Jun 2011 at 02:00

Hi all.

I've just purchased a Samsung PS50C550 (refurb) and I've noticed a strange issue where I'll get a short-lived image retention along the top of the screen whenever I'm watching a film or browsing a website. The retention usually disappears after a few seconds but it's really distracting whilst it's there.

Any ideas what may be causing this and if it is sortable? If it's not I guess I'll have to return the screen :/

lucid · 15 Jun 2011 at 03:02

Too much contrast.

If the set is on Dynamic mode which is common by default out of the box then change the setting to normal or movie or one of the other "less-shouty" settings.

While you're in the picture menus switch off or reduce to a minimum the Noise Reduction settings and anything that claims to enhance the picture.

FrenchTart · 15 Jun 2011 at 10:28

lucid said:
Too much contrast.

If the set is on Dynamic mode which is common by default out of the box then change the setting to normal or movie or one of the other "less-shouty" settings.

While you're in the picture menus switch off or reduce to a minimum the Noise Reduction settings and anything that claims to enhance the picture.

Ah, thanks.

I head read that it might be due to too much contrast. I just blindly applied settings I found online - clearly a mistake

I'll give your suggestions a try tonight. Thanks again.

Purgatory · 15 Jun 2011 at 12:41

image retention is normal on plasma tvs, it will also get better as the screen ages. There is nothing to worry about just stick the tv to a full screen program and it will wash it away. Just dont leave static images on too long or it may turn into burn in or persistent image retention which will take longer to wash. Burn in is permanent and can't be washed away. If you planned to use it for long periods as a computer screen you maybe better off with a lcd screen if image retention bothers you. Image retention is not permanent and goes away with normal use of the tv and dont read too many av forums they all in most cases exaggerate the issue which is just the nature of all phosphor based screens, even crts had image retention that quickly washed away compared to plasma thats why people notice this phenomenon now more, but ask any serious plasma user and they will tell you its normal and not to worry about it. Also a tip for new plasma tv users that want to game or use the screen as a computer screen, always warm the screen up with full screen tv programs then game or pc on it, this will massively reduce image retention and always after gaming or pc use run again full screen tv programs. Also always stick tv into gaming mode if it has one for pc and gaming this also will reduce image retention. Keeping contrast and brightness setting at halfway or less again will reduce image retention. Plasma tvs are amazing for gaming and pc use just treat them with care as i stated above and you will be rewarded with the best visual experience currently available to consumers.

FrenchTart · 15 Jun 2011 at 13:10

Cheers for the info. I was aware of quite a lot of the stuff you mentioned though not all

The screen is mostly used for our media server so the majority of the time it'll either be off or watching films/tv. There will be some light browsing on it but this will be quite rare.

I wasn't aware that image retention was such an issue on plasma (though I was aware of possible image burn/permanent image retention issues). Hopefully I can resolve the issue/make it manageable as the image quality in general is massively better than my old 40" LCD.

thecremeegg · 15 Jun 2011 at 13:19

FrenchTart said:
I wasn't aware that image retention was such an issue on plasma

It's not, I've had my plasma 2 years now and I've had mild retention that I have noticed maybe 3 times, and that was only when it was black. Its a completely overhyped phenomenon, just use the set as you normally would any other TV imo, just don't leave a static image on it for hours at a time.

FrenchTart · 15 Jun 2011 at 13:23

thecremeegg said:
It's not, I've had my plasma 2 years now and I've had mild retention that I have noticed maybe 3 times, and that was only when it was black. Its a completely overhyped phenomenon, just use the set as you normally would any other TV imo, just don't leave a static image on it for hours at a time.

I should've said "temporary image retention". It's definitely an issue on my current set with my current settings. I'm hoping that once I adjust the contrast as suggested above though, it won't be

Purgatory · 15 Jun 2011 at 13:29

Exactly the image quality of plasma makes LCD look silly, there is always advantages and disadvantages in technology, you just have to work out if the advantages outweigh the disadvantages regarding how you use the technology daily.. For me LCD is a no go area for home theatre setups because the blacks, shadow detail, light bleeding and uneven lighting of the screen, refresh rate, input latency, unnatural colours, fast moving ghosting images/blur, motion resolution is never full 1080p on any LCD I have seen and viewing angles distroy LCD for me and all these things annoy me more then image retention which is easily managed with care.

Also to add burn-in is very very very rare now because there is technology in the screens to prevent it now and if it does happen you really have to abuse the screen over many days with the same static image to get "TRUE burn-in", stubborn image retention is not burn-in and will wash away in time with normal viewing and can be speeded up by running colour slides or the cleaning tool some plasma screens have.

Honestly you have to ask yourself can you live with the faults of LCD/LED (LED which is just LCD with LED backlights or edge lights, dont be fooled by marketing and sales talk LED is LCD) ? If you are OCD about image quality .. Plasma is for you and if you really don't care too much and may abuse the screen LCD is for you.. Enjoy your screen mate and don't worry about image retention and like I said if the screen is new it will get better with time as it ages evenly, I bet you notice the image retention where normally black bars go while watching movies that have bars, because that part of the screen is still new and has not aged as much as the centre part. Just remember if its new for 1st 200 hours use it at reduced settings for contrast and brightness and to watch more full screen stuff then black barred movies, less gaming and pc use too in these hours to break the screen in. New screens always burn hotter and brighter when new and this is because the phosphors have not been broken in yet and in this period you will notice more image retention and can if not careful cause burn-in or really stubborn image retention. Just be gentle with her for the 1st 200-300 hours and she will reward you with great images

... Thats the secret of plasmas and why real purists love them because they spend time breaking them in and not abusing them in them magical breakin hours that most people cause damage to their screens or see image retention and think the screen is faulty when in reality its just how the technology works and once worn in they behave better but always treat them with care as I stated in the other post.

I use the colour slides to keep my screen nice and just play them on a loop.. I also used these to break the screen in and normal full screen tv viewing. The slides come in many formats just find the one best for you, My plasma has a built in media player and I just downloaded the jpgs and as I said I loop them on the media player as a slide show.

http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Purgatory · 15 Jun 2011 at 13:44

FrenchTart said:
Cheers for the info.

I wasn't aware that image retention was such an issue on plasma (though I was aware of possible image burn/permanent image retention issues).

No such thing as permanent image retention, that is burn-in.. people keep using the wrong terms and confuse people that are new to plasma technology..

ALL image retention is temporary and even stubborn image retention will go away in time. Image retention is just the plasma cells are still holding a voltage charge of an image that was either really bright or there for a bit too long, it's just a "memory effect", play something else in that area and it will stop remembering it and will work as normal again.

Burn-in is basically the cells have burned the glass and left the image in the glass of the screen (even when the TV is off can still be seen) or burned the cells of the screen so long (extreme picture settings and really bright image) that the cells affected are now burning at a reduced or different rate to others around them.. premature aging of the cells basically (sometimes the cells around catch up in aging and the image may vanish in a long time and I mean a very long time, probably the TV would have died before they do age to that point or the screen is basically not even very bright to use anymore).

james.miller · 15 Jun 2011 at 19:02

yes image retention affects virtually all plasmas but the crucial point is that the level of retention and the causes of it vary widely across the ranges and manufacturers. for example, a friends lg suffers with pretty bad image retention where even a channel logo will persist on the screen for a good 20-30 minutes after changing the channel, yet my panasonic only ever suffers retention if the last image on the screen was very bright and then nothing else is displayed. for example, if i turn the tv off straight after displaying a white box, the next day the ghost of the box will still be there, but feed it some video and it's gone in minutes. Rarely do you ever here of Panasonic suffering anything worse. Unfortunately, it doesnt help that you've bought a samsung, widely regarded as the worst of the major players left who still produce plasmas.

FrenchTart · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:23

Ah, not a good choice by me then I guess

It seemed like a good deal for a 50"...and tbh, as my old LCD was so cheap and rubbish, it still feels like a big upgrade

Purgatory · 16 Jun 2011 at 09:37

Samsung make good plasmas, just their quality control sucks sometimes... LG are the worse for Image Retention and visual artifacts.. As I said all plasmas have some image retention the nature of the technology.. I own a Panasonic TX-P50G20B and it has it too and is only a minor retention changing channels clears it in seconds and if it's a stubborn retention no more then 30mins and its gone (my set is still under the breakin time so very normal at this stage), also noticed its getting better with time.. I use to own a Pioneer Plasma before that and it had worse image retention then this set and cost me 6 times more then what this set cost me... The only reason I updated was I wanted 1080p and to get rid of the Pioneer before it died and it's getting harder to find parts to repair Pioneer sets... I also owned a top line Sony 36inch CRT then and since getting the Panasonic I even gave away the Sony CRT to a next door old gentleman that had a really old tv and he loves it. Also to add another nature of plasma technology is they ALL BUZZ to a point and at any normal volumes they should not be heard buzzing a screen buzzing louder then normal listening volumes at normal viewing distances may need looking at but don't get too paranoid over the buzzing to, they ALL DO IT and very normal and some will even settle down after some use and get less noisy.

How much did you pay for the Samsung ?

whitecrook · 16 Jun 2011 at 09:46

some good posts in this thread. As a panny plasma owner, I have abused the screen for more than is probably healthy for it, and have suffered NO adverse effects whatsoever. A lot of it is scaremongering IMO.

Purgatory · 16 Jun 2011 at 10:02

whitecrook said:
A lot of it is scaremongering IMO.

Agree and a lot of it comes from sales people in shops that try to flog you LCD/LCD LED because they get better commission on them...

..

Also never judge a Plasma in a store.. they always look more dull and lifeless there due to their lighting in the store or they set the picture settings wrong.. LCD and LED will always look better in really bright environments... Just remember your home is not a store and the screen NEVER needs to be that bright or you will go blind or get a suntan

.. Ask anyone that buys an LCD 1st thing they do is crank down that backlight, they are always super bright when they come out of the box.. Plasma is bright too when at home and you will realise you will turn them down too after unboxing it.. I have mine always for normal viewing on THX setting which is basically all settings on half levels and the picture is stunning and looks so life like and the image pops (almost like a 3D image).

I hate sales people in the high street they talk real rubbish 99% of the time and then you get the one who knows his stuff and whispers to you don't buy here and go find a Plasma if your room is not really bright or you can't shade the room from windows. Remember if you have really bright rooms and can't stop light getting in or set the TV in a way the light can't washout the image get an LCD.. I love both technologies and I think they both have a place in the home.. BUT NOTHING STILL BEATS PLASMA... only OLED and they are still way too small the screens.

I have my set positioned with the window behind it and still can watch in the day a very nice image even when the room is really bright .. So just think about positioning the Plasma set and where it will be placed when you take it home and switch it on and be ready to be stunned and you will never regret not buying an LCD.

FrenchTart · 16 Jun 2011 at 12:38

Thanks for the info everyone. Really useful tips so far

Purgatory said:
How much did you pay for the Samsung ?

490. Hopefully that counts as a good deal....

whitecrook · 16 Jun 2011 at 15:21

The other 'factoid' that used to be bandied around was the 'oh noes your plasma will fade over time and become less bright'

Well, most plasma screens these days have a brightness half life of about 60,000 hours. Work that out, it's about 10 years of 24x7 or more, until the screen is half as bright.... CRTS also exhibit this 'problem' did I hear anyone complain about it in the last 40 years? no.

Secondly, LCDs, also suffer a similar issue, in the the backlight will stop working, after a similar amount of time, and in this case you then have 0% brightness, and not just 50%.

james.miller · 16 Jun 2011 at 18:18

Purgatory said:
Samsung make good plasmas, just their quality control sucks sometimes... LG are the worse for Image Retention and visual artifacts..

i dont agree with that, not anymore. that used to be the case but LG have improved their range quite substantially. Samsung havent.

Purgatory · 17 Jun 2011 at 09:09

whitecrook said:
Well, most plasma screens these days have a brightness half life of about 60,000 hours.

Most are rated now 100,000 hours , all Panasonics have been rated 100,000 hours for 3 years now I think maybe more.

Truth is regarding this fading blaa blaa is the screens will probably have a different fault before they ever get to fade. The fading issue is a non-issue..

Also to add another one that sales people tell you... Plasmas need re-gasing :rolleyes:

... You can't re-gas a plasma and never need to... Don't fall for that line too it's utter rubbish.. They are sealed units and once filled with gas it will be there forever till you smash the screen... I can't believe how many people keep saying to me when they see my screen ohh it will need re-gasing... it's a myth created by sales people to sell you LCD so they get more ££££££££ out of the sale...

Purgatory · 17 Jun 2011 at 09:27

james.miller said:
i dont agree with that, not anymore. that used to be the case but LG have improved their range quite substantially. Samsung havent.

All plasma manufacturer have improved I agree, but what im saying is if you compare year X models with one plasma manufacturer with the same year other plasma manufacturer .. you will find that year a certain plasma manufacturer will have a better image retention measures on their screens or the gases and phosphors are better to prevent image retention to be noticed as much..

They all make nice screens the current companies that make plasma screens just they all have different faults and you have to decide which faults you are willing to live with and don't bother you.

I'm happy to see Plasma is still being developed by these few companies now and honestly I have no brand loyalty and will always buy the best screen available for my needs from any plasma manufacturer that I can afford at the time.. This time was Panasonic.. Before was Pioneer... Next time who knows... Could be LG or Samsung or a new company entering into manufacturering plasma screens ... I always go for best bang for buck and best image quality I can afford at the time..

The Panasonic TX-P50G20B was that TV this year for me (Dissapointed by 3D and think it's pointless in the home in it's current form, thats why I purchased a 2D TV). Next time it may even be a OLED TV if they are priced right and show they really do produce good images at such large sizes. Who knows OLED may not work right in really large sizes, have to wait and see what the real story is when they come out and see what faults and problems they have and are they faults I can live with at the time.. Remember there is no such thing as the perfect TV and won't be im guessing.. So when buying any type of screen technology or from any manufacturer of screens, it's better for the buyer to decide what they think is good, we all see and hear slightly different from each other and one review saying this TV is amazing does not mean too much too me, I like to see it with my own eyes and judge for myself. Same goes with audio equipment, you need to hear it and decide is it really amazing or just the guy reviewing it has bad hearing or is your hearing not up to scratch to hear the improvements mentioned in the review.

Ohh wanted to add a list of what I think are the brands to go for in order of image quality..

1.Pioneer
2.Panasonic
3.Samsung
4.LG
5.All other low budget brands..

Now reality time Pioneer don't make Plasma anymore ... so the real top holder of image quality this year to me was Panasonic.. Again reminder we all see and hear differently and to me the Panasonic set was best bang for buck and did everything I needed from a TV.. Apart from it's media player not playing MKV files GRRRR... But easily fixed by buying a media player or converting to what it likes to play.

Just a little history on the Technology of Screens ... LCD was designed from the ground up as a Static Image screen.. Eg. for non moving images like watches, adverts etc, things that don't have a lot of motion..
Plasma was designed from the ground up as a Moving Image screen for fast motion.. Eg. TV and computer screens etc etc ... Before you LCD fanboys attack me read a bit about the technologies

... Also I think LCD has really gone threw some very good development over the years to make it produce nice moving images.. That is is why I own both technologies.. My computers all have LCD screens, my home theatre is Plasma... Also to add LCD motion resolution is no way near Plasma motion resolution... Plasma is 1080p HD motion resolution... LCD depends on manufacturer and screen technology they are using can start from 300 to 900 (with some cleaver tricks they add to raise the motion resolution), LCD static resolution is 1080p HD... So is Plasma.. What is more important to me on a TV is I paid for full HD moving images not Static images.

Purgatory · 17 Jun 2011 at 09:45

FrenchTart said:
Thanks for the info everyone. Really useful tips so far

490. Hopefully that counts as a good deal....

Great deal

.. lowest I could find that set was for £625... So a good bargain you got there.. Enjoy the tv mate and just give it time to settle down threw it's breakin period and it will reward you with many years of great viewing.