Streamer/DAC - Where did I go wrong ?

DeepsleepUK

DeepsleepUK

DeepsleepUK

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I upgraded to the following front-end setup (~£11,000) following guidance from dealers* and forums*:

Auralic Aries G1 Music Streamer
Audioquest Coffee USB cable
Chord MScaler with SBooster Ultra BOTW Linear PSU
Wave Stream Dual BNC cable
Chord Hugo TT2 DAC

After coming over for a listening session one evening my friend said he wasn't overly impressed given the cost of the setup and the marketing spiel associated with each of the components.

My friend brought his Naim ND5 XS2 all-in-one box (£2400) to try at my house the next day and I was amazed by it's performance (no premium cables, no LPSU, no multiple boxes).

I tried my usual test tracks from Tidal and my setup did not have a significant price/performance improvement.

I thought it can't be right that this one box costing over a quarter of the price can sound this good.

I was gutted !

Where did I go wrong ?
 
He had the same cable in his demo equipment when I went to audition at his shop.

I didn't expect to end up with all this kit.
I originally bought just the DAC to use with my Macbook and then it all started from there with the dealer suggesting extra bits afterwards (try this, try that, reduce RF noise etc).

I agree it is foolishness on my part "Saw-you-coming".

If I knew back then that I needed a streamer/DAC then I would have auditioned such units rather than plain DACs (and avoided this dealer).
 
A few thoughts:
- System synergy might well be a contributor. Buying supposedly "great" products, without ensuring that they all work together well can result in a bit of a mess. I remember listening to a chaps system a long time ago. Sounded sublime with his record deck, and clearly the rest of his system was optimised for that. Problem was that his CD player sounded truly awful. I don't think that it was a bad CDP, just NOT working synergistically with his system
- Naim does have quite a decisive sound. It's not as "natural" as some kit I've heard, but is usually a lot of fun to listen to as it tends to highlight some musical elements (yes, I've owned their gear).
- Over the years I came to the conclusion that most reviews are nothing better than a guideline as to what's available and how it "might" sound. Most owners are biased because they don't want think they've bought something crap. Dealers/manufacturers want to make money, and reviewers seem to thrive on advertising budgets. Finally you have the "hype" merchants for whatever the latest and greatest is. The only solution is GO LISTEN for yourself and see what you think.
- If you can, why not dem some other gear? You have a love of dosh invested in your source.

Strikes me that you have a few alternatives:
- If you really think that you'd be happy with the Naim source, then dump your existing source on the Bay and spend the leftovers on some more music, or a subscription to Qobuz, Tidal or similar. Be aware that Naim themselves very much have their own upgrade path, i.e. new PSUs and similar, so they'll also be trying to get you closer to the truth
- Keep your current source and look at the amp/speaker combo. My experience with the older Chord DACs were that they were rather "dry" and a little clinical, if well detailed. In general, I found that mixing that presentation with smoother amps such as decent valve amp or class A can assist. The problem with that is that most of those tend to be fairly low powered and won't work that well with inefficient speakers.

Hope that helps.
 
DeepsleepUK said:
Where did I go wrong ?
Click to expand...

1) In the audition process: A good dealer should be able to demonstrate appreciable jumps in quality as each upgrade is suggested. With something like a streaming front end, it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to bring your own gear in to a dem so that you have a known reference point. When the next upgrade during the dem doesn't sound any different, that's when you've found your ceiling point.

2) In the home trial: When making any kind of specialist Hi-Fi purchase, how it sounds in the dem room is no guide to how it will sound in your own room. Taking some gear home for a weekend or even a week is the next step in the auditioning process. Okay, the dealer isn't going to just let you waltz out of the shop with hundreds or thousands of Pounds worth of gear, so you'd make a temporary purchase on a credit card. Depending on the outcome, you'd either swap the demo gear for new if all went well, or you'd return the gear and get the sale refunded, or there's be something in the middle if say some accessory such as special cables really didn't make that much difference.

When this kind of pay-for-loan deal was impractical, say you were planning to buy on hire-purchase for example, then I'd expect the dealer to do a home dem. This would obviously be a much shorter affair, maybe an evening or during the day on one of the quieter trading days; however it works, it would be the opportunity for the dealer to hear how their gear sounds in your system too, which may well provide additional insight about equipment synergy, or simply the chance to tweak the rest of your set-up to get it working better.

3) Home gear installation: There's an overlap here with the home demo, but this is the final part of the audition process, and it ensures that you're happy with the new gear you've bought. The dealer delivers the new gear; then sets it up and you check it still does its magic.


Buying new Hi-Fi gear can be a tricky process. Knowing the sound you're looking for, and avoiding the pitfall of buying something because it sounds different rather than better takes some resolve. It's easy to get lost in the process. Have you spoken to your dealer about your concerns?
 
Guess it depends which forums you read, there are groups that go in for a mix and match bits and pieces approach, I think you either have to do a hell of a lot demo's and trial and error or get very lucking to get a good result. It's also more prone to snake oil and fanboy bias.

I assume you didn't do a tour of few dealers to see what was about? Personally I would go back to the dealer and tell him your not happy and want to return it.
Then when the lock down is over get some demo's booked to find the sound you like. I'd start with a Linn/Naim dealer as benchmark. The latest Akurate DSM would likely wipe the floor with that lot for half the price......but then I'm just another fanboy with my own tastes. ;)
 
SimonR said:
Interesting. The OP posted exactly the same thread on AVF with some very different responses.
Click to expand...

Are you surprised?
Haven't been there in several years there, but when I did, the typical answers were to suggest either the "latest hyped whatever", or "I bought this, therefore it's ace". Seemingly very little genuine experience or objectivity.
 
There seem to be a few long term members regularly posting. Some have drifted back to the whathifi forums. A lot of forums have shrunk over the years. Facebook probably took a chunk, as has Reddit.
 
With something that is highly personal preference based, the amount you spend has limitations.

I'm surprised you didn't grab some other comparisons before hand, instore and from said friend. Could go back to the dealer and have a convo about it. That's what i would do if i went off their recommendations on expensive equipment that didn't deliver.
 
Isn't this law of diminishing returns?

Once you hit the £1500-£2500 barrier after that your spending £9K more to get marginal improvements. Or you bought overpriced parts if there is no improvement.

I'd say you could have saved yourself £9K but you can do what you want with it.
 
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