Street Fighter (SFIV, SSFIV, HDR)

ralv585 · 15 Aug 2010 at 12:05

Kreeeee said:
It's one of the reasons I really dislike this game. The whole game is about counter picking, so you can never really tell who is the better player and unless you pick a generic all-rounder like Ryu, Akuma or Guile (and now Chun?) there will be be some seriously biased matchups.

Though i agree that counter picking makes it easier to beat a certain character, i do feel that with enough match practice you'll be able to overcome hard matchups.

If we look at Guile for example, with the amount of time i've played against him, i know exactly what i can and can't do, so if you play it cleverly, you should be able to overcome it, as Balrog has the tools to win.

There are some horrible matchups like Sagat v Zangief, and Dhalsim v Deejay, where it's almost impossible for the latter to win, but most machups are around 5-5 or 6-4, and enough match practice will prepare you.

It also depends on what you consider makes a better player.
Does someone with great exeution make them the better player, or someone with great fundamentals?

I tend to think that someone who has the better fundamentals to be better, a player with great execution can be flash all they want, but if they don't have the basics down, they're gonna get beat everytime by solid footsies.

Kreeeee · 15 Aug 2010 at 12:15

Of course fundamentals are far more important.

If I could play Sim I'd swap to him whenever I fight a Guile, that's one of the 7-3 matchups that ruin this game

Edit: Do you just play adz/your mate as Guile? Rog vs decent Guiles is a hellish match, but if you play the same Guile often enough you can get in their head and that can easily skew your viewpoint. If I played your mate enough I may learn to beat him often, but that won't help with random decent Guiles in tournies.

Rogs lack of a crossup and completely useless overhead (against decent players) is also a huge disadvantage in the Guile matchup, as beating Guile normally involves getting in and keeping the guile down with mixups.

Rog does have the tools to get in (although Guiles sp boom recovery nullifies the ex dp and tap methods) but he lacks the tools once in to keep Guile down with high/low mixups (no high) and crossups on wakeup.

The lack of mixup tools makes Rog very predictable and it's the reason he never wins any tournaments, despite people rating him so highly.

Edit 2: sorry for the essay, I'm not great at getting my point across...

Artheas · 15 Aug 2010 at 18:22

hyv, did you start learning Abel? :O

e36Adz · 15 Aug 2010 at 18:29

Artheas said:
hyv, did you start learning Abel? :O

I think so, he chose Abel a few times yesterday.

I will sign on at 7pm for an hr-ish if I can and then again at around half 9. If we have 4 ppl we will go for tourny mode.

vian_siu · 15 Aug 2010 at 21:10

Artheas said:
hyv, did you start learning Abel? :O

yeah i did, but my progress is hampered by my xbox dying again. i cant believe how easy this thing breaks.

Cavallino · 15 Aug 2010 at 22:02

Hey folks, sorry Ive not posted in here for awhile although I have kept an eye on here every once in awhile and noticed e36 is upping his Guile game

I saw this vid which I thought was interesting. Not sure if you guys discussed it or not, but what are your thoughts?

Cavallino · 15 Aug 2010 at 22:18

Not directly related to SSF4, but I was curious...

1:03

Does Ryu have that side kick in SF4/SSF4?

e36Adz · 15 Aug 2010 at 22:43

Cavallino said:
Does Ryu have that side kick in SF4/SSF4?

Nope, nor does he have that roll he does at 1.20, a slightly different Ryu for sure.

You are not posting much, but are you still playing? When are we gonna have a Guile mirror match session?

Cavallino · 15 Aug 2010 at 22:59

Sadly not even playing bud

I do miss the game and would like to get back to it.

Infact I havent even downloaded the latest patch which includes the new tournament play?

Btw whats your thoughts on this whole input lag thing in my previous post above?

Kreeeee · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:06

Cavallino said:
Hey folks, sorry Ive not posted in here for awhile although I have kept an eye on here every once in awhile and noticed e36 is upping his Guile game

I saw this vid which I thought was interesting. Not sure if you guys discussed it or not, but what are your thoughts?

This has been known for ages. It was the same in SFIV.

Well, by known, it was known that the PS3 was a frame or 2 slower and many were saying it shouldn't be used in tournaments but it wasn't known if it was exactly 1 or exactly 2 frames.

Cavallino · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:18

Kreeeee said:
This has been known for ages. It was the same in SFIV.

Well, by known, it was known that the PS3 was a frame or 2 slower and many were saying it shouldn't be used in tournaments but it wasn't known if it was exactly 1 or exactly 2 frames.

Well from a lot of videos I've seen the PS3 version was used quite frequently in tournaments.

So what is this input lag about anyway? Why is it in the PS3 version? Surely any players that go from 360 to PS3 will have their timings messed up?

Kreeeee · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:23

It is used a lot in tournaments, I said many people were saying it shouldn't be.

Some famous players have raged and blamed it on the PS3 input delay before for missing loads of links (Mike Ross and PR Rog are the 2 that spring to mind).

I do have to change my timings for 1 framers and even 2 framers on the PS3 but once you settle in, it won't affect your play much.

Cavallino · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:29

Kreeeee said:
It is used a lot in tournaments, I said many people were saying it shouldn't be.

Some famous players have raged and blamed it on the PS3 input delay before for missing loads of links (Mike Ross and PR Rog are the 2 that spring to mind).

I do have to change my timings for 1 framers and even 2 framers on the PS3 but once you settle in, it won't affect your play much.

So essentially, (going back to Guile again

), does this mean for his crlp crmp link, you have to wait a couple of frames or is it moot because essentially whatever input you put in its going to be delayed on screen?

Or perhaps you have to wait 1-2 frames worth after the crlp has finished then crmp?

Artheas · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:30

e36Adz said:
Nope, nor does he have that roll he does at 1.20, a slightly different Ryu for sure.

You are not posting much, but are you still playing? When are we gonna have a Guile mirror match session?

10 mins eh? :mad:

Kreeeee · 15 Aug 2010 at 23:40

Cavallino said:
So essentially, (going back to Guile again ), does this mean for his crlp crmp link, you have to wait a couple of frames or is it moot because essentially whatever input you put in its going to be delayed on screen?

Or perhaps you have to wait 1-2 frames worth after the crlp has finished then crmp?

You have to delay if you use any visual cues (which most people do subconsciously).

e36Adz · 16 Aug 2010 at 00:35

Cavallino said:
Btw whats your thoughts on this whole input lag thing in my previous post above?

Interesting indeed watching that video back, but the technicalities of this game go over my head tbh, I play purely for fun and either win or get whooped but will always come back for more. I suprise myself sometimes at how LITTLE I know about this game

Artheas said:
10 mins eh?

Oops, sorry man I couldn't get back on for a timely enough session!

BTW I think I give up trying to set up tourny mode, 3 seem to jump in but the 4th never does and when he finally does (eg. lucifer yesterday and elrasho today) he gets kicked straight out? :confused:

vian_siu · 16 Aug 2010 at 15:36

well my xbox died again...this replacement lasted 2 days. i dont think i will be get a new anytime soon. its so annoying as i just want to play and trying to learn a bit of cody and guy as well.

saving up for the new one. so if anyone interested in playing me, it has to be on the pc.

Artheas · 16 Aug 2010 at 20:33

ggs Adz, been reading up on footsies? You seemed like a completely different player during a few parts of the fights.

When you do the cr.mp cr.mp cr.hk combo, you might wanna omit the cr.hk when you see the 1st cr.mp being blocked.

Kreeeee · 16 Aug 2010 at 21:13

Yeah, that's meant to be hit confirmed.

e36Adz · 16 Aug 2010 at 22:32

Artheas said:
ggs Adz, been reading up on footsies? You seemed like a completely different player during a few parts of the fights.

All the information I get about SF is from this thread really, I haven't been reading up on anything but I recall you won 2 games.. just, then chose Cammy and I thought bugger

I said to myself I am not gonna let you steamroll me like you normally do with her, so the plan was simply keep you out and when you do get in, you normally go for crossup then that combo which starts with a crouching punch and I always let you land it, so the plan was keep you out and if you do get in BLOCK THAT COMBO. I managed to win that game and felt comfortable in doing so. Most, well all my learning comes from playing, unfortunately I could read all day about Cammys weaknesses but I don't think I could apply it in game, I need to play and learn from my mistakes there. Tips like crouching when Cammy does that roll into grab move, is definately useful because I had no idea about that so if you see me doing something wrong thats blatantly obvious, please do point it out to me! I also realised that Ryu's standing HK beats that spinning punch Cammy does (which is a FA breaker) it was very satisfying landing that lol, it was discovered by pure fluke tbh.

Artheas said:
When you do the cr.mp cr.mp cr.hk combo, you might wanna omit the cr.hk when you see the 1st cr.mp being blocked.

One of my weaknesses (and there is quite afew of em) is starting a move or set of moves or combo, then quickly changing it half way after realising my opponent has blocked it. It took me ages to adjust to DP > FADC > 'oh crap hes blocked it' > THROW... instead of Ultra lol. The cr.mp cr.mp cr.hk is inexcusable though as that isn't done all that quick but yeah I notice you get me with FA quite a lot during that combo. Damn FA abuser :mad:

I'm signing on now for some...