Stuck in a non posting boot loop

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 20:22

My MSI Mortar b350 with a 2700x is stuck in a boot loop, where I don't even see it post.

The machine comes on, with fans spinning, the diagnostic CPU led flashes and it then seems to restart. The screen doesn't show on my monitor so presumably nothing has posted.

Changes i've made recently. I updated to the latest bios for the motherboard, it was advertised as beta........... I suspect this might be the issue. I've used the computer for about a week since doing this.

Yesterday I started to get a windows error when booting. It would go straight to an error screen during booting. Doing a restore to a few days ago, seemed to fix this, I suspect something to do with booting was becoming corrupt.

Finally just before this all happened, I was playing around with trying to make a Windows USB image, so that I could try repairing the OS. It turns out I didn't have a large enough USB key to hand, so I set windows to do an upgrade. I figured this might repair whatever was broken and worse case I might lose a few settings. After that the computer hasn't posted since.

Things i've tried to diagnose.
Unplugged all hard drives and tried booting
Unplugged graphics card and tried booting
Removed CMOS battery and shorted jumpers various times
Put a USB key with a bios file in and tried botting
Removed CPU and tried booting

None of the above helped and confirmed that the issue isn't something that Windows did.

My conclusion is the bios is buggered.
What do you think and do you have any suggestions to fix it?

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 20:38

alex h said:
Try removing battery over night try turning on in morning

At this stage, I think that's my only option left.
In the past the bios clears when I short the pins or remove the cmos battery but this time it just seems the bios is a mess.

Frustrating as I should have just left everything alone but I was interested if they had finally addressed the crap performance of ram and if i'd finally see my rated 3600mhz... I didn't.

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 20:45

Removed ram and tried booting. It doesn't loop but doesn't post either, I'm not sure if I should expect it to.
Tried ram in various combos and it continues to loop.

Windows isn't the issue as this problem happens with no drives connected.

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 20:47

Journey said:
So you can't even boot from a USB drive then? e.g something like Linux Mint

I've not tried that but I highly doubt it, since I don't even see the initial bios screen and the machine restarts after a few seconds.

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 21:27

That was fun. Had to remove the PSU to get the graphics card in the bottom slot.
It did the same bootloop.

Nutty_Death · 1 Jul 2020 at 22:01

Journey said:
Sounds like the motherboard is going to be the issue, unless the outside chance the CPU is at fault. Contact the gigabyte on here to see if they can flash the board for you.

Thanks, this is pretty much my conclusion through process of elimination.

@MSIUK Support are you able to help?

Thanks

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 07:03

Still happening this morning with the CMOS battery left out all night and the PSU power cable removed.

Starting to look like next steps are new hardware.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 12:28

It looks like one option might be to flash the bios by using a spi programmer, which is a rabbit hole I don't really want to go down as there's a lot of information to digest.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 12:55

Seems like you can pick them up for about £10 but I'm just a bit confused about what type to get. I read something about because the chip is 1.8v then you need a converter.

I'm ok working out how to do it provided I can find the right programmer at a low enough price to make it worthwhile Vs just replacing the motherboard.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 13:28

MX25U12873F
There is also a JSPI1 header right next to it.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 13:51

Thanks for your help! Just need to wait a month before I have the chance to get it working again.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 15:05

Thanks, I'll look into that and find out what those acronyms mean.

Nutty_Death · 2 Jul 2020 at 15:28

@Journey
You've been far more supportive than MSI just were...
"RMA process for components requires returning product to us through the distributor.
The distributor is important part in RMA process, therefore we cannot process product directly in RMA.
All warranty responsibilities are given only to distributor, which means for end users that warranty repair request must be made to shop where unit was bought.
Please contact with your shop directly and make repair request to them."
They didn't engage in trying to support me.

Nutty_Death · 3 Jul 2020 at 14:12

For anyone interested in flashing their bios. My currently plan is to use: https://flashrom.org/Flashrom
There's a guid version posted in: https://www.win-raid.com/t796f16-Guide-Using-CH-A-based-programmer-to-flash-SPI-EEPROM-36.html

I'll update this post when the programmer arrives and I try it out.

Nutty_Death · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:02

Programmer arrived today.

Managed to flash a new bios (backed up original first). This seemed to have worked but I was a bit confused by it wanting a bin file. I decided to just rename the bios file from MSI to .bin, since it was the same size as the extracted one...

Computer no longer boot loops but it also still doesn't post. The CPU led on the motherboard is on and all fans apart from the GPU are spinning (it spins initially then stops).
I've tried reseating the CPU twice, ram in various combinations, GPU in and out.

I'm now not sure if the bios is still messed up.
CPU is bust or perhaps the motherboard.

Nutty_Death · 13 Jul 2020 at 14:32

Journey said:
Sounds like a bad flash. Renaming the file to .bin is fine and exactly how it should be done. Did your do a flash erase cycle prior to flashing it?

No and to be honest, the validation step did state it failed in flashrom but I figured since the booting sequence had change, that it had done something. I'll try reflashing again. Thanks

Nutty_Death · 13 Jul 2020 at 21:31

Spent all evening on this, whilst getting some support from people in flashrom irc and still can't get it to verify.

Something about getting 0xff. They seemed to be suggesting maybe the ribbon cable is too long... I've resat the clipper, made sure the motherboard is completely disconnected, cmos battery out and cleared. I don't think it's doing a clean write and then it fails verification.

I think it's time to give up and say this is a write off.

Nutty_Death · 14 Jul 2020 at 06:47

urgh, what bad timing to be looking for a new motherboard!

I have a Ryzen 2700x which I have considered upgrading when the 4000 comes out but was in no rush to do so and potentially would have skipped another generation.
Now I either have the choice of getting a 2000 series motherboard as a stop gap, which I'd then have to upgrade to get a 4000 CPU or a x570 because the b550 doesn't support the 2000 series.......
To make matters worse, I use matx boards, which there only seems to be one x570 instance of.

I hadn't realised the effect of limiting comparability on future generations and being stuck on an old generation whilst waiting for a new one to be released.

Nutty_Death · 14 Jul 2020 at 07:50

Journey said:
Awee, that is a shame. It does sounds like a bad flash though, which makes it even more annoying.

You don't they've said Zen3 will be supported on B450's. The likes of the MSI Mortar Max which is MATX would be a good shout, and it's not too expensive, as much as you probably hate MSI now, they have a BIOS flashback button which means no messing around with SPI.

Yeah from what they were saying on the IRC channel it probably is a bad flash but to work that out I need to sink more time and money into it. Either by desoldering the bios chip or getting a new shorter ribbon cable.

I'll check out the MSI Mortar Max. You're right, i'm not exactly their fan anymore. I really would prefer to be putting £100 towards a 3000 or 4000 series motherboard.

The only reason I updated the bios was because I was playing with getting my ram to run at its rated 3600mhz instead of crapping out beyond 3200mhz.

Nutty_Death · 14 Jul 2020 at 08:00

If I get a new 2x4 pin connector I probably could recrimp it, I guess that's worth chucking a few quid at.
Something like https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/idc-...K5Ks5LOIolMyDeaCncBoCr-QQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (assume it's ok to post as not a competitive product)

I like tinkering too, it's how I broke it in the first place

I do it with my pedal bikes too. Often learn the hard and expensive way by making mistakes first...