Student support grants likely to be axed

[George Hincapie]

Whilst it's not required, it is a very good tool at doing all of those things especially when you look at the opportunities graduate programmes offer. Degrees promote social mobility, I'm amazed that you're trying to argue otherwise.

Because that's not my experience?

 

[George Hincapie]

The opportunities you had do not exist anymore (apart from the armed forces) without a degree and even then it's extremely competitive.

It was competitive then. A degree is less important than practical experience in my view. A degree doesn't teach you common sense for example; being intelligent is no good if you aren't able to practically apply that.

 

[Kemik]

Typically, a bedroom in a student house on a 12 month contract (not including bills) is between £350-400 a month. That leaves around £1000-1500 for food, bills, study materials, travel to and from university, etc. It's not easy to manage without a grant, if your parents are unable to contribute to any of those outgoings. If you choose to stay in halls in the first year, you'll probably have even less to manage on.

So get a part time job to meet the difference? That's what I and many other people who didn't get grants did.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

It was competitive then. A degree is less important than practical experience in my view. A degree doesn't teach you common sense for example; being intelligent is no good if you aren't able to practically apply that.

That's irrelevant when an application without a degree these days will be the first to be rejected.

 

[Amp34]

For the 2015/16 academic year it is £5740.

Typically, a bedroom in a student house on a 12 month contract (not including bills) is between £350-400 a month. That leaves around £1000-1500 for food, bills, study materials, travel to and from university, etc. It's not easy to manage without a grant, if your parents are unable to contribute to any of those outgoings. If you choose to stay in halls in the first year, you'll probably have even less to manage on.

As for what I spend:

Roughly £30 a week on food (and that's hardly being extravagant), bills are £8 a week currently, my phone costs £10 a month, and on a number of occasions I've had to pay extra towards gas/electricity.

This is one of the problems. Studying I the SE or London is a lot more expensive than studying I the South West or North. I would say how much I paid but it was 6 years ago so not to relevant, it was significantly less than those studying in the SE though.

 

[Tunney]

Because that's not my experience?

You've worked hard and done well for yourself. However, why should people from poor backgrounds be made to work for an extra 10-15 years before being in the same situation as a fresh-faced grad from a rich background though?

If you'd been given a grant and taken a job in Canary Wharf straight away, you'll probably have paid back that grant in tax a long time ago.

 

[quickshot89]

That's irrelevant when an application without a degree these days will be the first to be rejected.

Because everyone has them these days. How can you stand out when everyone else has a degree.

Its been said many times over, a degree has become more worthless over the years.

 

[Amp34]

Which is exactly my point about making their lives easier at university, so they can be like every other teenager and not be pressured by money troubles to the point that they drop out due to financial difficulty, stress, depression, etc. You have to understand that those who receive the full grant amount are typically from backgrounds where there is no safety net whatsoever should things get tight.

I've only managed to save part of my grant by being incredibly frugal, not drinking, not going home much, etc. People who get grants aren't living a life of luxury.

You have a very warped view of those that didn't receive a grant, especially of gose that worked while studying...

 

[George Hincapie]

You've worked hard and done well for yourself. However, why should people from poor backgrounds be made to work for an extra 10-15 years before being in the same situation as a fresh-faced grad from a rich background though?

I am (obviously) not defending it, but money provides options and opportunities. That's just the reality of the World. I suppose the point I am poorly making, is that it isn't the be all and end all. It isn't a barrier if you are sufficiently motivated.

 

[RDM]

Yes, they are (being put off)

I know it is said a lot but I am not entirely sure the numbers support it? Numbers going to university are up from all demographics aren't they?

 

[Tunney]

I am (obviously) not defending it, but money provides options and opportunities. That's just the reality of the World. I suppose the point I am poorly making, is that it isn't the be all and end all. It isn't a barrier if you are sufficiently motivated.

I agree to an extent. It's not a insurmountable barrier. It is a barrier though and it's a barrier that it's sensible for the government to help people overcome. Getting smart kids into university helps grow the economy.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Because that's not my experience?

Ahh, sorry, I forgot your experience is representative of everyone everywhere. My bad.

One size does not fit all.

 

[Mason-]

The real problem is there are too many students. Until there are less people doing useless **** at university and paying out the ass for it then nothing will change. There simply is no need to push people huge amounts through university like cattle it serves no purpose but self justification of the system.

I agree with you, personally I think there should be grants based on ability and subject. But then every little ********* doing a degree in media will cry that the guy doing the Maths degree is more important than him. Whatever. I know this is unpopular opinion, but I really think university should NOT be for everyone.

Which means educating people properly during high-school. This government needs to encourage apprenticeships and job placements, people need an incentive to do them. Don't apprenticeships get paid like £2.73 /hour? Where is the incentive in that? Nobody wants to work for £2.73 /hour.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Well the point of apprenticeships is there's light at the end of the tunnel. You're getting paid whilst getting educated. Whereas at university you pay to get educated. Most apprenticeships are 2 years I believe (? could be wrong) and you should get something out of it. Anecdotal I know, but my brother was earning peanuts as an apprentice from 18-20 for British Gas, but now he earns a really good wage for his age etc. I went to University from 18-22 and I landed a good grad job and I'll be starting on 25k at 22 whereas when he was 22 he was earning upwards of 30k. There isn't much room for progression in his profession whereas there is in mine. It's the tradeoff between them.

But some kids can't see 5 minutes into the future let alone 2 years. "Why should I do an apprenticeship earning £2.70/hr when I can go to University for 3 years and get paid to be there". Fact is not everyone is academic, I'd actually go as far to say that most people aren't academic. Yet it's getting to the point where most people go to university.

And just to add to the "My Situation at University" list:

I worked full time every summer except between 3rd-4th year when I got a paid internship at the University. Didn't work during semesters though.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I agree to an extent. It's not a insurmountable barrier. It is a barrier though and it's a barrier that it's sensible for the government to help people overcome. Getting smart kids into university helps grow the economy.

Bingo!

 

[Ohnoezfail]

As a current student at uni, I hope to God this doesn't happen.

I'm a Physics and Maths student at a Russell group uni and the cheapest rent I could get for next year is £420 a month, not including bills. I receive the full tuition loan and grants. My dad is a factory worker and my mum is on disability benefit and can barely walk, so I cannot ask them to support me at all as they struggle on themselves enough. My actual loan won't cover my accomodation.

Had I not got so much help I wouldn't even think about going university.

Simplying turning the money from grants into loans would just put us into more debt.

This is a terrible move, if this happens then there would be very little hope for people like me to even going to university.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I agree with you, personally I think there should be grants based on ability and subject. But then every little ********* doing a degree in media will cry that the guy doing the Maths degree is more important than him. Whatever. I know this is unpopular opinion, but I really think university should NOT be for everyone.

Well the point of apprenticeships is there's light at the end of the tunnel. You're getting paid whilst getting educated. Whereas at university you pay to get educated. Most apprenticeships are 2 years I believe (? could be wrong) and you should get something out of it. Anecdotal I know, but my brother was earning peanuts as an apprentice from 18-20 for British Gas, but now he earns a really good wage for his age etc. I went to University from 18-22 and I landed a good grad job and I'll be starting on 25k at 22 whereas when he was 22 he was earning upwards of 30k. There isn't much room for progression in his profession whereas there is in mine. It's the tradeoff between them.

But some kids can't see 5 minutes into the future let alone 2 years. "Why should I do an apprenticeship earning £2.70/hr when I can go to University for 3 years and get paid to be there". Fact is not everyone is academic, I'd actually go as far to say that most people aren't academic. Yet it's getting to the point where most people go to university.

We need to take a chapter out of the German book here. Academic routes and apprenticeships are both equally valuable and need to be treated as such to have a robust economy. It's a shame that apprenticeships are seen as a lesser path.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

It was competitive then. A degree is less important than practical experience in my view. A degree doesn't teach you common sense for example; being intelligent is no good if you aren't able to practically apply that.

Spot the bitter person that didn't do well enough to get on a degree course

 

[Mason-]

We need to take a chapter out of the German book here. Academic routes and apprenticeships are both equally valuable and need to be treated as such to have a robust economy. It's a shame that apprenticeships are seen as a lesser path.

There seems to be a stigma attached to education that isn't University. I don't understand where it has come from either. People my age should just speak to their parents in their era doing an apprenticeship was fine. There are plenty of successful people who didn't go to unviersity and there will still be plenty of successful people who don't go to university. Teenagers feel like they have to go to university to get anywhere in life and it just simply isn't true. In fact I would say as far as career progression goes for some people university would be detrimental!

 

[SPG]

Ahh the american way.

You want to go to UNI and come from a low income background ?

Work till you can afford to go and be sure its something useful the world needs, not another film studies idiot

 

[SPG]

There seems to be a stigma attached to education that isn't University. I don't understand where it has come from either. People my age should just speak to their parents in their era doing an apprenticeship was fine. There are plenty of successful people who didn't go to unviersity and there will still be plenty of successful people who don't go to university. Teenagers feel like they have to go to university to get anywhere in life and it just simply isn't true. In fact I would say as far as career progression goes for some people university would be detrimental!

Totally agree, Labour government started all this to be fair by allowing UNI for all which in turn has devalued degrees. But it did allow them to make the jobless figures look good.

That being said i am trying to recruit for a new junior mech design engineer atm and quite frankly its disheartening. I would love to put something back and give a start leg up for Brit however 95% of the CV`s are not of this land for want of a better word. Maybe it is a little xenophobic but i cant see whats wrong in wanting to help your own first.