Studio lighting thread

James J said:
I don't want white backgrounds though or heavily photoshopped images. For that you need studio lighting unless you want some very harsh shadows. You've got one in that image on the bottle cap, losing detail and drawing the eye from the reflection. Looks really out of place on a very bright image with a white background. My 2p of course, yet my decision for my setup is based on a lot of research into exactly the sort of shots I want to do :)
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Care to point out where these "very harsh shadows" are on that bottle cap, because I just can't see them or we have very different ideas what a harsh shadow is.

Even for product shots I would personally be using 2 lights + light modifiers, reflectors/bounce cards, background and maybe a sheet of perspex.

My normal portrait system is 2 lencarta studio lights + softboxes and then varying the use of 2 sb900's/modifiers depending on the effect and background.
 
AHarvey said:
Care to point out where these "very harsh shadows" are on that bottle cap, because I just can't see them or we have very different ideas what a harsh shadow is.

Even for product shots I would personally be using 2 lights + light modifiers, reflectors/bounce cards, background and maybe a sheet of perspex.

My normal portrait system is 2 lencarta studio lights + softboxes and then varying the use of 2 sb900's/modifiers depending on the effect and background.
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I did point out where they are so I won't repeat whats already there in black and white.

Why two lights and 2 speed lights? Its more than easy to do it right with one for most shots. The only time you need a second light is if you want to add depth to the photograph to try and pull it away from the background.

Also using a background is pointless unless you want it coloured anything other than black, which is what I personally enjoy. Not a fan of "chavgrounds" nor photographs where every single shadow has been removed on what is usually a plain white, boring, photograph.

Do you dispute that mono blocs have a use over speed lights? The argument put forward to me in my own thread was why get a mono bloc head when a flash does the same job, which is kinda like saying "why get a DSLR when an iPad does the same job".
 
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James J said:
Bigger light manipulators require more powerful lighting. Softboxes are required to be 3x larger than what they are taking a photo of to have the absolute best effect on light softness and specular highlights. I'm not saying you can't use a speed light to do product shots at all, but you will be limited down the line in regards to exactly what type of shots you want to do. Plus by the time you start adding all the bits and bobs needed to get those better shots, you might as well have just bought mono bloc head anyway.
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You must be used to TTL when you had a flash. What your ignoring is the fact that a speed light has more than enough power to fill just about any light modifier for smallish product work.

Type 'photography inverse square law' into google to get up to speed...

Oh, and the reflection was done 'in-camera', no Photoshop required.
 
An Exception said:
You must be used to TTL when you had a flash. What your ignoring is the fact that a speed light has more than enough power to fill just about any light modifier for smallish product work.

Type 'photography inverse square law' into google to get up to speed...

Oh, and the reflection was done 'in-camera', no Photoshop required.
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For the record I still have a flash as I didn't bin it when I got my mono bloc head (like I would anyway :S).

Google mono bloc vs speed light pros and cons and you'll find that the only advantage that the speed lights have are weight and portability. Everything else is in favour of mono blocs.

You are limiting yourself to "smallish" product shots with your method.

An Exception said:
huh?
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Corrected
 
James J said:
I did point out where they are so I won't repeat whats already there in black and white.
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No you said "You've got one in that image on the bottle cap, losing detail and drawing the eye from the reflection."

I want to know exactly where on that bottle cap you think there is a harsh shadow, because there isn't.

Why two lights and 2 speed lights? Its more than easy to do it right with one for most shots. The only time you need a second light is if you want to add depth to the photograph to try and pull it away from the background.
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While it is more than possible to shoot a small product with one light, once you start moving on to bigger subjects, or more subjects in the same shot having the extra lights really makes it easier. You can also start adding gels to strobes to change background colours.

Also using a background is pointless unless you want it coloured anything other than black, which is what I personally enjoy. Not a fan of "chavgrounds" nor photographs where every single shadow has been removed on what is usually a plain white, boring, photograph.
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Have you told the rest of the photography community about how backgrounds are useless? I think they might disagree.

Do you dispute that mono blocs have a use over speed lights? The argument put forward to me in my own thread was why get a mono bloc head when a flash does the same job, which is kinda like saying "why get a DSLR when an iPad does the same job".
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well, I have complete control over my strobes from my camera without having to move a step towards one of them. They are ideal for carrying around to locations and great in small spaces, only down side is the cost for me as mine were £340 new each.

My studio lights are good for studio work, but tbh, if I had the cash the only time I would actually choose them over strobes would be outdoor work when I had to overpower the sun and run from battery packs.

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but I know it will. You come across like someone who has done a lot of reading and research in to a subject, but has taken it all as gospel. Gerry Edwards is very knowledgeable regarding lighting, but don't forget, his ultimate aim is to sell you stuff, and lencarta don't do strobes.

Everyone has different needs, and there are lots of ways of doing each thing. Perhaps you should start a "light this" thread and post an example of a shot, and then a setup shot and ask other people to post how they would get the same result and I bet you'll get several ways for each photo.
 
AHarvey said:
My studio lights are good for studio work, but tbh, if I had the cash the only time I would actually choose them over strobes would be outdoor work when I had to overpower the sun and run from battery packs.
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This is what I told him as well. Currently looking into some merlins + hyper sync. As I want to use it for outdoor portraits at 1/8000 F1.4...
 
AHarvey said:
No you said "You've got one in that image on the bottle cap, losing detail and drawing the eye from the reflection."

I want to know exactly where on that bottle cap you think there is a harsh shadow, because there isn't.

In a completely white photograph, yes there is lol.

While it is more than possible to shoot a small product with one light, once you start moving on to bigger subjects, or more subjects in the same shot having the extra lights really makes it easier. You can also start adding gels to strobes to change background colours.

Yeah when you start getting to washing machine size and above products. For anything less, primary light and a reflector is more than enough light.

Have you told the rest of the photography community about how backgrounds are useless? I think they might disagree.

For what I do they are, so don't try lecturing me that I must use one, because I really don't need to thanks.

well, I have complete control over my strobes from my camera without having to move a step towards one of them. They are ideal for carrying around to locations and great in small spaces, only down side is the cost for me as mine were £340 new each.

This is something I don't require though at all otherwise I would have gone and bought a completely different setup. I fully agree that if I was outside taking shots, battery powered setups are more than ideal for such photographs. Remember though, I DONT do portrait photography, which is the biggest use of outdoor mono bloc heads.

My studio lights are good for studio work, but tbh, if I had the cash the only time I would actually choose them over strobes would be outdoor work when I had to overpower the sun and run from battery packs.

See above, I agree that if I shot outdoors and required outdoor lighting (weddings, events photography etc) then I'd also go down the same route. However I don't do this type of photography and never will as I don't enjoy portrait photography at all.

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but I know it will. You come across like someone who has done a lot of reading and research in to a subject, but has taken it all as gospel. Gerry Edwards is very knowledgeable regarding lighting, but don't forget, his ultimate aim is to sell you stuff, and lencarta don't do strobes.

Nah thats fair enough, but just because I take advice doesn't mean I also don't take it with a pinch of salt. I weighed up all the options open to me within my budget and the setup I have reflects user reviews, product reviews, lighting tutorial websites verdicts and technical specs. Garry Edwards opinion is just a factor into these things.

Everyone has different needs, and there are lots of ways of doing each thing. Perhaps you should start a "light this" thread and post an example of a shot, and then a setup shot and ask other people to post how they would get the same result and I bet you'll get several ways for each photo.

That was actually the aim of this thread. I wanted people to post their setups and then move onto showing what could be done with them, with a tutorial afterwards if people asked how it was done. Instead its turning into a weird argument about "1 size fits all" attitude to photography, which just isn't the case (as I'm sure you and everyone else knows)
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No offence mate as I didn't want to have to say this, but I think you need to curb your attitude. I think you think you know more than you actually do...
 
An Exception said:
No offence mate as I didn't want to have to say this, but I think you need to curb your attitude. I think you think you know more than you actually do...
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Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. There an attitude on this forum where a few members seem to think they are members of an exclusive club and anyone outside of their little group is just wrong with whatever they come out with. You and others come under this and the thread filled with photos is a great example where you and a few others only ever comment on each others work, whilst everyone else never gets a mention.

As for the tilt shift lens, I'll only ever look into one if I actually require one, which is highly doubtful.

I want to keep this thread going, regardless of conflicting attitudes when it comes to the implementation of this sort of lighting so lets put this behind us and move on. If you want to take this further, feel free to PM me and we'll take this to email instead so that the thread isn't derailed even more.
 
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=22075711

An Exception said:
I think you miss understood what I meant when I said "Either the crop isn't tight enough, or your not wide enough" .
Firstly, like you say perhaps the stump is cut off short, even so my eye wants to see what's there, even if it's some grass. That wouldn't be the case though if the image was more of a close up of the grain.
Secondly with regards to the 'wider' part of my comment, I was referring to simply the FOV, so you could either backup a little to get more in the frame, or use the 50 instead.

At the moment, the framing neither shows detail or context. There is no 'hero' in the frame imo.
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James J said:
I appreciate what you are saying, yet its a salvaged throw away picture I took before I literally sat on it to have a rest. Its doing very well on numerous websites so I can't complain really.
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a) You post throw away shot's.

b) You pretty much discard any critique, smugly citing your throw away picture is supposedly doing well on other forums. Yet you are upset and supposedly bemused as to why people here are not commenting much on your pictures.

In my opinion, if you want to receive more comments, try posting your best work, and not throw away snaps you haven taken while wondering around with your camera due to boredom. And finally take on board critique, disagree if you wish, but don't be so arrogant as to brush it off by saying other posters on other forums like it...
 
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Take it to email if you have anything else to say as I want the thread to continue in its original function. If you want a response to what you just put, email me :)
 
Sigh, so damn mature.

An Exception said:
You don't need the power of studio gear to do that, just some cheap yongnou speed lights would have worked just as well.
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When you post such misinformation as that, its bound to get a comment back isn't it. Get over yourself.
 
An Exception said:
No offence mate as I didn't want to have to say this, but I think you need to curb your attitude. I think you think you know more than you actually do...
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One more time.

And yes some cheap yongnuo flashes will work just as well for what you have shown above.
If you don't think so, try explaining WHY you actually disagree.
 
hmmm this has gone from a heated debate (which is fine) and is now verging on the edge of personal attacks I feel.

James J, I never said you had to use a background by the way, just that saying they aren't needed isn't true. I've taken product shots using 1 sheet of glass and used the wall behind.

James, I really think you should request this be closed. Then start another thread about lighting challenges. Post a photo of a product and then one of the setup and ask others how they would light it, with examples :) I think you'll get much more feedback and interest from that thread :)

Best of luck to you :)
 
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