Stupid Cyclist

Commenting on what riding is like in the Netherlands is utterly irrelevant, cycling is much more prevalent and motorists more used to cyclists and I'm guessing more considerate.

I drive, and I ride. I won't ride in the gutter, it encourages drivers to make overtakes when it's not safe. Taking the lane is the only safe way in some circumstances.
 
Once again Snowdog cracks me up, he is the very stereotype of the chilled, relaxed and inclusive Dutchman.

I'm afraid that simply being in Holland obviously doesn't make you an expert in cycling. Drivers in Europe are generally more courteous to cyclists and when I'm cycling in France I ride the same way I do in the UK, and it appears that the French cyclists do as well.
 
Commenting on what riding is like in the Netherlands is utterly irrelevant, cycling is much more prevalent and motorists more used to cyclists and I'm guessing more considerate.

If course it's relevant, it's an example model that, as far as I am aware is more workable than what we have in the UK.

It's even more relevant considering cities like Amsterdam, which are a live example of how cyclists can have less trouble in a bustling major city.

I really think this is more of a British mentality issue as I've never encountered a kamikaze attitude such as the guy who is featured in this thread outside of a major UK city. Infact I don't think I've ever encountered anyone as 'interesting' as this guy.
 
Fine, if you are prepared to see major upheaval of city road systems including a massive resection in on street parking? A lot of Europe has impressive cycling infrastructure due to extensive city centre remodlling between 1939 and 1945.
 
[DOD]Asprilla;18386201 said:
Fine, if you are prepared to see major upheaval of city road systems including a massive resection in on street parking? A lot of Europe has impressive cycling infrastructure due to extensive city centre remodlling between 1939 and 1945.

Did you just pull a Godwin? It's kind of hard to tell.
 
Not true at all.

If you are capable of holding 30 mph, leave enough distance with vehicles in front of you, and know how to handle a bike in the conditions and give enough braking distance and are away of your surroundings there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If it's in a 30mph zone, then it will indeed stop a driver from overtaking, well tough crap because they'd be speeding.....

This TBH.

Snowdog what was wrong with where that cyclist was cycling? Why can he not use the centre of the road when he is moving at the speed of the rest of the traffic?:confused:

As for why he was in that position when the motorcyclist tried to squeeze past him, it's because he didn't want to go over the speed bump... He was perfectly within his rights (both legally and moraly IMO) to cycle where he did, his only other option would have been to cycle on the curb. The motorcyclist decided he would squeeze through the gap that was obviously going to be small (considering the cyclist was not moving out into the road at that point).

Oh, I suppose I should also point out one of the other reasons he was cycling where he was (aside from the safety issues), it meant he wouldn't need to keep moving out from the curb to overtake the other cyclists... He wasn't holding anyone up and he wasn't doing anything illegal.

I try and cycle around 0.5-1m from the curb most of the time, although I will move out when I'm doing around the speed limit as it's safer for me. I will however move slightly closer to the curb to let a car get past if there is not enough space for it to use another lane, or swerve into that space if the car isn't giving enough space as it's going past (around 2-3 ft IMO if it's going at any speed). Cycle at 20+MPH next to the curb... Stupid thing to do...
 
If course it's relevant, it's an example model that, as far as I am aware is more workable than what we have in the UK.

It's even more relevant considering cities like Amsterdam, which are a live example of how cyclists can have less trouble in a bustling major city.

I really think this is more of a British mentality issue as I've never encountered a kamikaze attitude such as the guy who is featured in this thread outside of a major UK city. Infact I don't think I've ever encountered anyone as 'interesting' as this guy.

It is relevant, if you realise the differences as well. I have cycled in Holland and it is TOTALLY different to cycling here. Firstly it's flat, which means you can go whatever speed you want up to the speed limit with ease... Secondly, and more importantly, motorists don't treat cyclists like potential road kill, they know how to "treat" a bike, give plenty of space and don't try to purposely knock you over (I'm sure lots of car drivers do this here:confused:). Finally the roads are generally emptier so there is jusst less traffic on the roads.

All three do make a massive difference.

Did you just pull a Godwin? It's kind of hard to tell.

Either way, it's totally relevant. There are two inner towns/cities in the UK that I've cycled that are brilliant (well safe and easy) to cycle in. A town called Stevenage and Plymouth. Stevenage was almost entirely built after WW2, has an extensive cycle system (set of mini roads for bikes), Plymouth on the other hand is very old, however it was mostly flattened during WW2 and rebuilt after, which makes it nicely cyclable (except for the hills). All the other towns/cities I've cycled in are massive pains....;)
 
Snowdog what was wrong with where that cyclist was cycling? Why can he not use the centre of the road when he is moving at the speed of the rest of the traffic?:confused:
Because he is a cyclist, not a motorist...

As for why he was in that position when the motorcyclist tried to squeeze past him, it's because he didn't want to go over the speed bump... He was perfectly within his rights (both legally and moraly IMO) to cycle where he did, his only other option would have been to cycle on the curb. The motorcyclist decided he would squeeze through the gap that was obviously going to be small (considering the cyclist was not moving out into the road at that point).
A speedbump? Come on, I mean potholes or gutters, I can understand, but if a car can take a speedbump a cyclist can too, far easier...

The motorcyclist simply wanted to go faster, and the cyclist was being a jealous moral arse about it.

Oh, I suppose I should also point out one of the other reasons he was cycling where he was (aside from the safety issues), it meant he wouldn't need to keep moving out from the curb to overtake the other cyclists... He wasn't holding anyone up and he wasn't doing anything illegal.
He was holding up the motorcyclist, which may not be illegal, but imo anti-social and selfish.

I try and cycle around 0.5-1m from the curb most of the time, although I will move out when I'm doing around the speed limit as it's safer for me. I will however move slightly closer to the curb to let a car get past if there is not enough space for it to use another lane, or swerve into that space if the car isn't giving enough space as it's going past (around 2-3 ft IMO if it's going at any speed). Cycle at 20+MPH next to the curb... Stupid thing to do...
That is exactly the difference, most cyclists around here are chilled and do not do 20 mph, mopeds do and they indeed behave like cyclists in the UK, sometimes claiming a ''car'' space, but cyclists are considered SLOW moving objects, not traffic that travels with the cars. Luckily, fast cyclists have no trouble because of the cyclist infra here... But cyclists should first behave as cyclists ( rather than motorists), get accepted, then try to push the boundaries, afaik, in the UK, a lot of cyclists are acting as if they're fast transport, on average, they're not, and motorcyclists especially, are above them.
 
Snowdog, your arguments make no sense at all.

Cars hold motorcycles up but you don't see cars moving to the side of the road or slowing down to let them by.... In that video by your logic the car was also holding up the motorcycle, the cyclist was traveling with the traffic flow.

It sounds like you are also suggesting it is unusual and should not be allowed that cyclists travel at fast speeds... flippin ek I do 21mph for 50 miles sometimes....

Cycling in busy city's can often be quicker or less hassle than using public transport or cars.. No one is above anyone on the road, well, that is how it should be, but drivers think they own the road.


ALL the arguments to do with cyclists are all from the fact that a driver may loose 10-20 seconds probably not even that and it's stupid. And as for drivers trying to overtake cyclists traveling with the traffic flow, that is basically like a bullying tactic.
 
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Cyclists should have a test much like any other road user. They should also have some form of insurance. I've lost count of the number of times I've had my car scraped and wing mirrors clipped by cyclists handlebars while undertaking in traffic.

I must confess I also get wound up when I'm stuck in traffic and a cyclist (or group of cyclists) ride down the inside of me, at times knocking against my car to get to the front and then cause traffic build up as everyone attempts to overtake them when the lights change but can't because of oncoming trafic making the situation/traffic worse. So folk who suggest that cyclists reduce trafic, at least in this situation are wrong and , in certain situations as described above, the eco arguement for cyclists falls flat on its face as cyclists actually cause a build up of traffic rather than ease it.

I'm not against cyclists, especially when they abide by the laws but in my experience the vast majority do not, certainly not on the A6 into Stockport and have total disregard for the highway code and other road users and by doing so endanger not only their own lives but the lives of others. All to many times I see cyclists jump red lights or think it is fine to ride on the pavement to 'skip' the red light and then ride across a crossing at the junction.
 
As for why he was in that position when the motorcyclist tried to squeeze past him, it's because he didn't want to go over the speed bump...

Hmm, seems to me that circumventing a road 'safety' feature (such as a speed bump) purely for the purpose of not having to slow yourself down is quite dangerous. Why do you imagine the speed bump is there in the first place? Especially if there is traffic behind you, I mean come on...

You may now step off your soap box. ;)
 
Cyclists should have a test much like any other road user. They should also have some form of insurance. I've lost count of the number of times I've had my car scraped and wing mirrors clipped by cyclists handlebars while undertaking in traffic.

I must confess I also get wound up when I'm stuck in traffic and a cyclist (or group of cyclists) ride down the inside of me, at times knocking against my car to get to the front and then cause traffic build up as everyone attempts to overtake them when the lights change but can't because of oncoming trafic making the situation/traffic worse. So folk who suggest that cyclists reduce trafic, at least in this situation are wrong and , in certain situations as described above, the eco arguement for cyclists falls flat on its face as cyclists actually cause a build up of traffic rather than ease it.

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I've never seen a situation where cyclists increase traffic apart from an event such as critical mass. As for em scraping your car, how close are you to the footpath? Not in cycle lanes are you? I find I can safely get through gaps around a ft wide, maybe less without touching cars, if I think I'm going to not get through I just wait behind the car. I often have to as the side is blocked despite a cycle box at the front.

I do find quite a lot of drivers actually move to give me space though when they see I'm behind them.

Hmm, seems to me that circumventing a road 'safety' feature (such as a speed bump) purely for the purpose of not having to slow yourself down is quite dangerous. Why do you imagine the speed bump is there in the first place? Especially if there is traffic behind you, I mean come on...

You may now step off your soap box. ;)


Speedbumps if approaching wrongly even at fairly low speeds can knock wheels out of true, although if approaching correctly can glide over them at any speed without feeling them. Besides, it's not "circumventing a road 'safety' feature" if they're going lower than the speed limit...

I'm not against cyclists, especially when they abide by the laws but in my experience the vast majority do not, certainly not on the A6 into Stockport and have total disregard for the highway code and other road users and by doing so endanger not only their own lives but the lives of others. All to many times I see cyclists jump red lights or think it is fine to ride on the pavement to 'skip' the red light and then ride across a crossing at the junction.

Just on Sunday in Stockport I seen a driver skip a red light... It's not only cyclists. He got all in a rage due to the road works on one stretch in Stockport and thought he'd waited long enough.
 
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Snowdog, your arguments make no sense at all.

Cars hold motorcycles up but you don't see cars moving to the side of the road or slowing down to let them by.... In that video by your logic the car was also holding up the motorcycle, the cyclist was traveling with the traffic flow.
Only with congestion, which is why they are allowed here to pass jams between cars with a diff of 15 mph max...

It sounds like you are also suggesting it is unusual and should not be allowed that cyclists travel at fast speeds... flippin ek I do 21mph for 50 miles sometimes....
It is unusual, but not disallowed, I mean, luckily here we have the infrastructure for cyclists to travel like cyclists want in the UK, in the UK however, I am of the opinion there must first be enough cycle paths and cycle roads, before they act like they do... There are enough cyclists like in the VID here, but they are a minority, but they can do so fine because mostly ( say about 60-70% of the way) the cycle traffic here has their own cycle paths with no cars and they aren't annoying anyone, when they do share the road with cars, they do not act like they do in the vid of that guy, they behave like, erm, cyclists, not motorists.


Cycling in busy city's can often be quicker or less hassle than using public transport or cars.. No one is above anyone on the road, well, that is how it should be, but drivers think they own the road.
I understand that, but the drivers DO mainly own the road here, while cyclists own their own cycle paths, cyclists claiming the road as if they are drivers is a receipt for disaster imho... I don't know but from that vid, if cyclists would be here remotely like that, it'd be chaos like over there in the UK, they behave and see themselves differently, as ''cyclists'' not ''motorists''. There's a whole different attitude when cycling. Motorists are seen differently as kind of ''faster traffic''. While not necessarily true here ( since cyclists have their own tunnels, overpasses, etc) they simply do not claim as much when they're sharing the road with cars or other motorists.


ALL the arguments to do with cyclists are all from the fact that a driver may loose 10-20 seconds probably not even that and it's stupid. And as for drivers trying to overtake cyclists traveling with the traffic flow, that is basically like a bullying tactic.
I guess it's more a fault of the infrastructure, but partly, I think the attitude of cyclists in the UK is VERY wrong, I am a professional driver for work, but I can't remember any situation where I'd get as annoyed by a cyclist like in that vid. I'm used to them either letting me past or being on their own roads so to speak... The only issue with cyclists here I really have is kids going to school ignoring many traffic laws, adult cyclists usually are very polite and they're actually surprised if I wait for them and wave to me ''thank you'' if I brake for them, yes there are situations here where the cyclist has the right of way, mostly though, drivers have the right of way and often let cyclists pass if they're not in a hurry or are being polite.

I'm not used to cyclists traveling with traffic, they're slower 99% of the time...

I understand the mentality is not even comparable between motorists and cyclists in the UK, but how cyclists and motorists are acting over there is wrong, they're not trying to make life easier for each other, they're fighting over the sparse space instead...

I see every cyclist as a car less on the road, which I like, more cyclists simply means better roads for me as a car driver. These days I just cycle when it's really nice weather and when I'm drunk, other wise, moped>pushbike and car>*... Before 18, I always used to cycle everywhere for years, school, work, drinking ( from 16 here remember, all 16-18 year olds always cycle when they go out), always cycle...
 
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suggesting it is unusual and should not be allowed that cyclists travel at fast speeds... flippin ek I do 21mph for 50 miles sometimes....


...ALL the arguments to do with cyclists are all from the fact that a driver may loose 10-20 seconds probably not even that and it's stupid. And as for drivers trying to overtake cyclists traveling with the traffic flow, that is basically like a bullying tactic.


All the arguments from your personal view maybe, it's not a question of how fast you are going per se, it is a question of going at a speed appropriate to your envirnonment at any given time.
 
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