Stupid Cyclist

[platinum87]

If course it's relevant, it's an example model that, as far as I am aware is more workable than what we have in the UK.

It's even more relevant considering cities like Amsterdam, which are a live example of how cyclists can have less trouble in a bustling major city.

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I'm sorry but its not very relevant at all, London is far different than Amsterdam, with way more people, way more cars, a higher population density..

And all of that get crammed to hell right in central London.

Not even entirely convinced its about attitude, well it is, but how do these attitudes form? Over years of just madness, everyone is getting annoyed, i've been to Amsterdam twice and cycled a lot 200+km or so..

Far less traffic, slightly bigger roads, no stress at all.. Then cycle through central like that, its going to take you forever to get anywhere

 

[mattyfez]

Speedbumps if approaching wrongly even at fairly low speeds can knock wheels out of true, although if approaching correctly can glide over them at any speed without feeling them. Besides, it's not "circumventing a road 'safety' feature" if they're going lower than the speed limit...

Tell me about it, car wheels cost a lot more that cycle wheels, whats your point?

 

[willhub]

All the arguments from your personal view maybe, it's not a question of how fast you are going per se, it is a question of going at a speed appropriate to your envirnonment at any given time.

I've said that, if your body can handle the effort needed to hold that speed, you know how to handle the bike, and the environment around you is safe to do so and providing you're not breaking the speed limit then it's fine.

Snowdog, I don't agree with that attitude "I'm a cyclist so I should ride really REALLY slowly"

Cars do not own the road, cyclists riding fast is not a cause of any problems at all, if a cyclist wants to absolutely murder themselves through town then so be it as long as they're not engendering the lives of anyone.

Tell me about it, car wheels cost a lot more that cycle wheels, whats your point?

Cycle wheels are a lot more brittle than car wheels I think you'll find...

Seems like car wheels cost similar prices to bicycle wheels, an average set of road bicycle wheels costs around £100 each, my budget wheels cost me £175, now if I want good wheels, they can be around £300 each.

Arguing that a bicycle should not avoid speed bumps is useless though, cars can avoid those speed bumps easily.



There is some points here:

There is no problem with cyclists riding as fast as they want providing they stick to speed limits and know when it's time to brake and when someone is likely to cross the road (You know, as you're riding you're looking and you see someone wobbling about near the side of the road and you use your head to think, maybe they're going to cross, so you use your brakes), it's happened to me many times.
Riding in the gutter is a bad idea
If you're riding with the flow of traffic, the driver would certainly be in the wrong to try and overtake
If you're doing the speed limit, and a driver overtakes, well then they're speeding, I often go through 20 mph zones at 20 mph and have cars shooting past me.


Those 4 points are not open to debate, they make perfect sense.

One thing to note is the lack of drivers using indicators, I'd probably have been knocked off hundreds of times if I assumed drivers will always use their indicators when they are turning.

 

[snowdog]

Snowdog, I don't agree with that attitude "I'm a cyclist so I should ride really REALLY slowly"

That's the difference then, cyclists here see themselves as lower traffic than cars.

Cars do not own the road, cyclists riding fast is not a cause of any problems at all, if a cyclist wants to absolutely murder themselves through town then so be it as long as they're not engendering the lives of anyone.

Cyclists riding very fast is part of the problem why they're not that accepted in the UK imo.

Cycle wheels are a lot more brittle than car wheels I think you'll find...

Seems like car wheels cost similar prices to bicycle wheels, an average set of road bicycle wheels costs around £100 each, my budget wheels cost me £175, now if I want good wheels, they can be around £300 each.

Arguing that a bicycle should not avoid speed bumps is useless though, cars can avoid those speed bumps easily.

That's a ridiculous argument, in the same way I can say A lambo or ferrari wheel costs thousands, 175 quid buys a completely new bike, you can buy 3 perfectly good bikes for 175 if you go 2nd hand... 300 quid nearly buys a brand new electric bike... That's elitism... A new wheel for the average bike is 90€ tops, repairing your old wheel is 2 tenners tops. Sure, if you go for the equiv of ''lambo'' wheels then you pay 200+, you can get 2 complete new bikes for the same price though...

I mean, it's the same as saying I destroyed my car steelies and demand BBS alloys instead.

 

[willhub]

That's the difference then, cyclists here see themselves as lower traffic than cars.

Cyclists riding very fast is part of the problem why they're not that accepted in the UK imo.



That's a ridiculous argument, in the same way I can say A lambo or ferrari wheel costs thousands, 175 quid buys a completely new bike, you can buy 3 perfectly good bikes for 175 if you go 2nd hand... 300 quid nearly buys a brand new electric bike... That's elitism...

1: That view is wrong

2: No it's not, you're totally wrong there, it's the red light jumping, not looking where they're going, wobbling all over the road, slowing drivers down in middle lanes, riding on pavements and so on, it's only because drivers can't do it and also because they can't get their own way. If drivers were allowed to jump red lights then that'd be one thing they'd not moan about. I'm sure in the US it's legal to actually red light jump when turning I think right? Remember if from Road Wars. Oh yes and the other reason, because sometimes a driver can loose seconds due to a cyclist, pure lazyness.

3: No you can't 175 quid buys a cheap crappy bike that's pretty unsafe

4: a standard road bike costs around £500, and they can go as high as £16,000.

 

[mattyfez]

1: That view is wrong

2: No it's not, you're totally wrong there, it's the red light jumping, not looking where they're going, wobbling all over the road, slowing drivers down in middle lanes, riding on pavements and so on, it's only because drivers can't do it and also because they can't get their own way. If drivers were allowed to jump red lights then that'd be one thing they'd not moan about. I'm sure in the US it's legal to actually red light jump when turning I think right? Remember if from Road Wars. Oh yes and the other reason, because sometimes a driver can loose seconds due to a cyclist, pure lazyness.

3: No you can't 175 quid buys a cheap crappy bike that's pretty unsafe

4: a standard road bike costs around £500, and they can go as high as £16,000.

You need a reality check, lol!

 

[w3bbo]

I've never seen a situation where cyclists increase traffic apart from an event such as critical mass. As for em scraping your car, how close are you to the footpath? Not in cycle lanes are you? I find I can safely get through gaps around a ft wide, maybe less without touching cars, if I think I'm going to not get through I just wait behind the car. I often have to as the side is blocked despite a cycle box at the front.



Just on Sunday in Stockport I seen a driver skip a red light... It's not only cyclists. He got all in a rage due to the road works on one stretch in Stockport and thought he'd waited long enough.

It matters not how close I am to the footpath. If there is not enough room they shouldn't try to squeeze through. There are no cycle lanes on the stretch of road I'm talking about.

I have just given an example of when cyclists cause an increase in traffic and that is a daily occurance. Try driving down the A6 from Hazel Grove to Stockport along the A6 at 8 in the morning and I guarentee you will see what I have said.

I'm not for one minute saying cylists are the Devil incarnate and car drivers are Angels, there are good and bad drivers and cyclists, A car driver jumping a red light however is a rarity compared to cyclists in my experience.

 

[willhub]

You need a reality check, lol!

I don't see how that related to my post tbh, I think it's you who needs the reality check, that post I wrote is all facts.. Fast cyclist is not the problem, cyclists should not think they are below car drivers, the price of the bikes listed is accurate, and 175 quid indeed buys a heap.

 

[snowdog]

1: That view is wrong
2: No it's not, you're totally wrong there, it's the red light jumping, not looking where they're going, wobbling all over the road, slowing drivers down in middle lanes, riding on pavements and so on, it's only because drivers can't do it and also because they can't get their own way. If drivers were allowed to jump red lights then that'd be one thing they'd not moan about. I'm sure in the US it's legal to actually red light jump when turning I think right? Remember if from Road Wars.

No and yes, but most cyclists don't do that, well except in Amsterdam which is a bad example for the rest of the country...
I think you need to see how ''mainstream'' biking is like, you sound like a hardcore obsessed enthusiast.

3: No you can't 175 quid buys a cheap crappy bike that's pretty unsafe

Rubish, 175 quid buys a perfect bike which will last for half a decade, are you saying your ''safer'' bike has airbags and stuff, I always rode cheapo bikes myself ( occasionally borrowed my dad's more expansive bike) and I find it hard to believe they are less safe than expensive ones, they don't break into 2 halves or whatever, you simply get less extra's like automatic light sensored lights or cheaper brakes ( which still work fine but simply may need more maint.)...

How is a 150 quid mountain or granny bike less safe than a 1100 quid electric city bike, Í'm sure that when hit by a car the results are similar.

4: a standard road bike costs around £500, and they can go as high as £16,000.

An average bike costs around 440 here ( or well, that's the avg. amount spent on a NEW bike here), but most of the more expensive bikes are for the enthusiasts, 1500€ buys you a top of the range electric bike. People like me and other students often buy their bikes for 4-6 tenners on the net or buy a cheap bike from halfords for 100-150€...

Sorry, I'd consider someone insane spending 16 k on a bike, only hardcore enthusiasts who want to ride the tour de france buy something like that, casual cyclists spend 440€ on average here. which is cheaper than the worst wreck with a year of MOT can buy here.

 

[platinum87]

I'm not used to cyclists traveling with traffic, they're slower 99% of the time...

No chance in central London

Average speed of a car in London is just 7mph, says Citroen

The French car maker admits that motorists are wasting their time in jams. Britain’s rush hour motorist is spending up to half the journey at a standstill, claims Citroen today.

Rush hour is basically from 8am-6pm at least in central.

Anyway, if you havent watch top gear Series Ten, Episode Five, basically Car vs speed boat vs public transport vs bicycle..

 

[willhub]

No and yes, but most cyclists don't do that, well except in Amsterdam which is a bad example for the rest of the country...
I think you need to see how ''mainstream'' biking is like, you sound like a hardcore obsessed enthusiast.


Rubish, 175 quid buys a perfect bike which will last for half a decade, are you saying your ''safer'' bike has airbags and stuff, I always rode cheapo bikes myself ( occasionally borrowed my dad's more expansive bike) and I find it hard to believe they are less safe than expensive ones, they don't break into 2 halves or whatever, you simply get less extra's like automatic light sensored lights or cheaper brakes ( which still work fine but simply may need more maint.)...

How is a 150 quid mountain or granny bike less safe than a 1100 quid electric city bike, Í'm sure that when hit by a car the results are similar.

An average bike costs around 440 here ( or well, that's the avg. amount spent on a NEW bike here), but most of the more expensive bikes are for the enthusiasts, 1500€ buys you a top of the range electric bike. People like me and other students often buy their bikes for 4-6 tenners on the net or buy a cheap bike from halfords for 100-150€...

Sorry, I'd consider someone insane spending 16 k on a bike, only hardcore enthusiasts who want to ride the tour de france buy something like that, casual cyclists spend 440€ on average here.

I reckon the average price on a bicycle for regular road cyclists in this country is around £1000 now.

Road bikes are popular because they're faster than MTB's on the road for obvious reasons and as I said, a £175 bike is low quality and will not last long.

It's not all about safety, expensive bikes can be more comfortable, some frame materials can give better rides but it's all personal preference, cheapo bikes use low quality parts that either wear out quick or break quickly.

I don't get why you're arguing, you have no experience of riding a bicycle in this country and of bikes in this country.

In this country you get what you pay for, you want really good comfort and nice quality long lasting parts, you pay for it, try riding 70+ miles every Saturday and Sunday and commuting every week day on a £175 bike... I thought not....

 

[snowdog]

No chance in central London



Rush hour is basically from 8am-6pm at least in central.

Anyway, if you havent watch top gear Series Ten, Episode Five, basically Car vs speed boat vs public transport vs bicycle..

So London is like all of the UK ? London is a ridiculous ammount of people placed in a ridiculous small amount of space with old rubbish buildings and streets. Comparable with Amsterdam ( piece of **** of the Netherlands imo). Old rubbish cities that are better off with 50% of them leveled with the ground. Such cities don't even remotely represent the country. Amsterdam is hell for both motorists and cyclists. Most of London looked like a ghetto to me.

 

[willhub]

So London is like all of the UK ? London is a ridiculous ammount of people placed in a ridiculous small amount of space with old rubbish buildings and streets. Comparable with Amsterdam ( piece of **** of the Netherlands imo). Old rubbish cities that are better off with 50% of them leveled with the ground. Such cities don't even remotely represent the country.

Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow, Bradford, Huddersfield, Liverpool.


So you want London one of most famous and important cities in the world to be leveled? London may be busy but it's not a POS part of the UK, well areas of it are.

 

[snowdog]

Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow, Bradford, Huddersfield, Liverpool.

That sucks, one thing I liked around here is the town around me ( Rotterdam) has been bombed to smithereens in WW2, while still quite crap, it's nowhere near as crap as the cities not bombed in WW2 like A'dam. ****holes imo. If there's anything I hate it's old crap cities with old crap infrastructure, new post war cities and suburbs ***.

 

[willhub]

 

[snowdog]

Part of the fault is the crap infra in the old english cities ( I guess, if looking anything like here). But do they really represent the average of the country, surely not ?

 

[platinum87]

So London is like all of the UK ? London is a ridiculous ammount of people placed in a ridiculous small amount of space with old rubbish buildings and streets. Comparable with Amsterdam ( piece of **** of the Netherlands imo). Old rubbish cities that are better off with 50% of them leveled with the ground. Such cities don't even remotely represent the country. Amsterdam is hell for both motorists and cyclists. Most of London looked like a ghetto to me.

Most of the world is one massive ghetto

The problem is narrow roads and parked cars, and in central + other city centres pedestrians all over the place.

 

[Jonny ///M]

I reckon the average price on a bicycle for regular road cyclists in this country is around £1000 now.

Road bikes are popular because they're faster than MTB's on the road for obvious reasons and as I said, a £175 bike is low quality and will not last long.

It's not all about safety, expensive bikes can be more comfortable, some frame materials can give better rides but it's all personal preference, cheapo bikes use low quality parts that either wear out quick or break quickly.

I don't get why you're arguing, you have no experience of riding a bicycle in this country and of bikes in this country.

In this country you get what you pay for, you want really good comfort and nice quality long lasting parts, you pay for it, try riding 70+ miles every Saturday and Sunday and commuting every week day on a £175 bike... I thought not....

£175 does indeed buy ****e. You're looking at £270 now for an entry level mountain bike or hybrid and £575-650 for an entry level road bike.

Wheels are the same...£130 for the most basic shimano road wheelset you can buy going up to £1200 or so for a set of deep section dura ace wheels.

Agree on the average road bike being around £1000 too. Mainly due to cycle scheme I imagine.

Cycling is not cheap and I'm not gonna wreck a decent wheel just so a car driver can get past for that extra few seconds. I drive and some of the pot holes around here my car literally does fall into. 14" wheels + lowered somewhat add to that

 

[weescott]

I'm a little late to the party so forgive my skimming of this thread but. This post caught my attention:

Cyclists should have a test much like any other road user. They should also have some form of insurance. I've lost count of the number of times I've had my car scraped and wing mirrors clipped by cyclists handlebars while undertaking in traffic.

I must confess I also get wound up when I'm stuck in traffic and a cyclist (or group of cyclists) ride down the inside of me, at times knocking against my car to get to the front and then cause traffic build up as everyone attempts to overtake them when the lights change but can't because of oncoming trafic making the situation/traffic worse. So folk who suggest that cyclists reduce trafic, at least in this situation are wrong and , in certain situations as described above, the eco arguement for cyclists falls flat on its face as cyclists actually cause a build up of traffic rather than ease it.

I'm not against cyclists, especially when they abide by the laws but in my experience the vast majority do not, certainly not on the A6 into Stockport and have total disregard for the highway code and other road users and by doing so endanger not only their own lives but the lives of others. All to many times I see cyclists jump red lights or think it is fine to ride on the pavement to 'skip' the red light and then ride across a crossing at the junction.

Cycling profficiancy -I passed first time when I was 10 so that makes me qualified to knock off your wing mirror.

Part of the law is that cyclists have right of way, so except for due dillagence. You are correct. Cyclists should have insurance...but try catching us through the traffic to check and make a claim.

I used to cycle through the middle of Aberdeen. I never hit wing mirrors. I would out accelarate cars. I had one guy toot his horn and gesture for me to get out of his way because I was in front of him IN STATIONARY TRAFFIC! I gave him the finger and moved on leaving him waiting. Idiot!

On one occasion I had a car come so close to me and almost knock me off my bike I punched his car. Fair to say he won as I punched his petrol tank. DOH.

Cyclists are not perfect but if drivers endanger my life I will tell them what for.

 

[Nexus]

The irony is that the streets of London were designed for Horse and Carts and bicycles, cars and other large vehicles were but a dream when most of the roads were built.