But the way they have nerfed Merc rather than allowed others to catch up as they SHOULD is what grinds my gears... Consistent regs allow time for people to develop to a closer field. I get the need to stop DAS. I get the need to enforce existing regs on moveable aero but continually "tweaking" the regs is not very fair and if the aim is to always nerf the leaders to make it even, you might as well have a spec series like F2/F3 (which are actually great I think) but then its hardly a "pinnacle of tech" or a manufacturers sport....
Poll: Styrian Grand Prix 2021, Spielberg - Race 8/23
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Soldato
Why are people crying over the burnout. Go back to some older threads and people were happy to see Lewis doing burnouts when winning, or Alonso in the famous Valencia victory.
Soldato
Burnouts are awesome. And I think they should be mandatory for all race winners.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
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Agreed. It stinks. It’s one of the many problems with F1 right now. That said, the newer fans seem more akin to football fans and will no doubt lap it up.
I don’t get the big deal. It’s just a burnout. We see worse things that have barely been penalised, if at all.
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He hadn’t crossed the line yet so technically the race was still on and the racetrack was still live. Every other time has been beyond the finish line and most if not all cars had crossed the line and were cruising round to the pits.
It is weird when its 1 season from a huge rule change. I bet it wasn't cheap for the teams either! Well, apart from Haas..
Burnout wise I'm not too bothered if they want to do them. Hopefully he hasn't upset his engine/gearbox too much.
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Think it was only because he did it before he finished ie whilst still in the race. if he'd gone up to the first corner and done it on the tarmac would have been fine.
People saying it's over becuase Merc have stopped developing. That probably means there are still bits coming for the next few months, and it's not like they're that far off and we know RBR have generally been strong in Austria. Hopefully will get some more close fighting anyway! Least the strategy has been interesting if the racing hasn't always been so.
Soldato
He had crossed the finish line before he did the burnout. Remember that the finish line is at the *back* of the grid, not the front.
Is this why people are getting all frothy about it? They think the race was still going and he felt he had such a margin that he could completely come to a stop and do a burnout over the line to seal the win?
If so, I get the outrage now. I mean, they're completely wrong, but I get it.
Associate
I wouldn’t be surprised if Mercedes write this year off as they put their resources into next years car
McLaren and Ferrari can tell you what happens if you get in a development race with your rival instead of focusing on the following years regs.
That’s why they were shocking in 2009 as they were still pushing in 2008.
Merc themselves did so themselves in the v8 era, again concentrating on the incoming hybrid engines
Red Bull may struggle next year, especially with engines also in-house
McLaren and Ferrari can tell you what happens if you get in a development race with your rival instead of focusing on the following years regs.
That’s why they were shocking in 2009 as they were still pushing in 2008.
Merc themselves did so themselves in the v8 era, again concentrating on the incoming hybrid engines
Red Bull may struggle next year, especially with engines also in-house
Caporegime
The objection from Masi is that he did it on the start-finish straight, just after the finish line whilst other cars were still racing at full speed. You don't want to create a situation where two drivers racing for the line suddenly encounter a slow moving winner celebrating. If he'd done it further round the track where drivers would be expected to have slowed for their cool down lap, I don't think there would be any objection. I think that's fair.
I bet LuLu wont be happy about that though (writing off year)
I have zero problems with burnouts or doughnuts but not when a race is still live (even if he'd passed the line). If he lost it as someone was finishing it could have been fatal so I get the concern.... But I used to love seeing Zanardi and others doing doughnuts after every Indy car victory and the odd ones we've seen in F1. If drivers wanna risk their gearbox to express their glee, let them. We don't want robots, we want human beings!
Soldato
Happy to see drivers doing burnouts, but I can understand why doing it on the main straight whilst the race is still live would annoy some. I don't really see how it's any worse than drivers zigzagging down the straight in celebration as they cross the line - there's still added risk of an accident.
Hopefully common sense will prevail, Max won't get any punishment and drivers can keep doing donuts and what have you somewhere.
Hopefully common sense will prevail, Max won't get any punishment and drivers can keep doing donuts and what have you somewhere.
Caporegime
Watch this from about 1:19 if you want to know why they looked negatively on this. What Max did wasn't this bad and, of course, there wasn't anyone close behind him but I can see why they don't want to encourage that kind of behaviour, it could easily cause a very nasty incident.
Agree. We ideally never want to allow huge speed differentials where possible, and this was possible to avoid. In quali it is different. This was on the start finish with a race still live. We've seen penalties for a lot less. What was the one where someone stopped in the wrong place to do a practise start? Similar thing. I dunno. The stewards are consistently inconsistent really.
I also agree about the discussion on Merc's lack of performance. It's a bit of a shame really. F1 is so conflicting in what it wants to be. You know you've done a great job when regs change to try to hamper your progress. Unfortunately it has always been this way. It's meant to be the top end design and technical race discipline on the planet, but at the same time it has things like ERS/DRS, high deg tyres, mandatory pit stops, no re-fueling, now slow pit stops.... all in attempt to try to make it more exciting and close, i.e. artificial things. We've seen over the years off the top of my head things like, infinite gears, Williams' amazing suspension, the car that had the big fan underneath to suck it to the ground, Brawn GPs amazing air defuser to suck the car down and all these inovations that gave huge advantages. It seems a bit of a lottery as to who interprets and exploits the rules best and is allowed to run these advantages the longest.
The rule changes to Nerf the Merc though are a bit lame. That's not progress really. It's interference because other teams just couldn't catch up. Like a reset as said. It's not really one single thing, it's a series of changes which completely upset the balance of their car design. It's a perfect storm. Redbull deserve some credit, but it's more that Merc have lost so much.
I wonder what would have happened if Lewis got into turn 1 first and whether Max would have been able to stay with him in the dirty air. I suspect he still would have. The close races we wanted between them doesn't really seem like it will be a thing if Max keeps getting poles. He will cruise to victory each race I feel.
I also agree about the discussion on Merc's lack of performance. It's a bit of a shame really. F1 is so conflicting in what it wants to be. You know you've done a great job when regs change to try to hamper your progress. Unfortunately it has always been this way. It's meant to be the top end design and technical race discipline on the planet, but at the same time it has things like ERS/DRS, high deg tyres, mandatory pit stops, no re-fueling, now slow pit stops.... all in attempt to try to make it more exciting and close, i.e. artificial things. We've seen over the years off the top of my head things like, infinite gears, Williams' amazing suspension, the car that had the big fan underneath to suck it to the ground, Brawn GPs amazing air defuser to suck the car down and all these inovations that gave huge advantages. It seems a bit of a lottery as to who interprets and exploits the rules best and is allowed to run these advantages the longest.
The rule changes to Nerf the Merc though are a bit lame. That's not progress really. It's interference because other teams just couldn't catch up. Like a reset as said. It's not really one single thing, it's a series of changes which completely upset the balance of their car design. It's a perfect storm. Redbull deserve some credit, but it's more that Merc have lost so much.
I wonder what would have happened if Lewis got into turn 1 first and whether Max would have been able to stay with him in the dirty air. I suspect he still would have. The close races we wanted between them doesn't really seem like it will be a thing if Max keeps getting poles. He will cruise to victory each race I feel.
Done chief.
This is what I thought initially. It came off as very arrogant. Happy to be proven wrong that he did it after the line, but as below it's still fairly dangerous. Especially considering cars weren't that far behind.
Yeah.
Caporegime
Ahh, as soon as Formula 1 threatened a close title battle with 2 very closely matched cars and drivers we just have the usual changing of the guard. Its the fundamental flaw of F1. The car is 95% of the performance and performance is king. No idea how they will ever make it close or interesting in the future honestly.