Subwoofer recommendations

Would a Gemini still cut it if I upgraded my satellite speakers to some better floor mounted ones in the future for example? I noticed the Gemini is also available as DF, will this make a difference since my Tannoy sub was FF?

Also, is there an ideal spending ratio between the AV receiver, speakers, and subwoofer to get the best results? I spent around £300 on the speakers and £200 on the receiver at the time, but this is the first time I have needed to buy a subwoofer separately so it's a bit of a mindfield!
 
Last edited:
StartWars said:
Would a Gemini still cut it if I upgraded my satellite speakers to some better floor mounted ones in the future for example? I noticed the Gemini is also available as DF, will this make a difference since my Tannoy sub was FF?
Click to expand...

That's when things get a bit trickier.

The Gemini II gets down to a little below 40Hz. The number is quite important. Psychoacoustically, we perceive 40Hz as quite a strong bass frequency even though it's nothing like as low as music or films scores can go. Bose have been using this phenomenon for decades. They tune their subs to this frequency so that there's a distinct thump thump from their boxes. What it seems like they don't do is play many bass frequencies above 40Hz, so the music lacks some articulation in the bass range. That's a problem that the Gemini II doesn't have.

With satellite speakers, or smaller bookshelf speakers, a sub that goes down to 40Hz compliments them well. They'll sound like a fairly good floorstander. By 'fairly good' I'm talking about floorstanders at roughly £450* and above. That's really the point where you should be looking for a sub that digs a bit deeper, IMO.


*£450 is about the tipping point where there's enough money in the manufacturer's coffers to pay for the quality of woodworking required to make a large floorstanding cabinet rigid enough that it can compete in pace and precision with a standmounter at half to 2/3rds the price.

StartWars said:
Also, is there an ideal spending ratio between the AV receiver, speakers, and subwoofer to get the best results? I spent around £300 on the speakers and £200 on the receiver at the time, but this is the first time I have needed to buy a subwoofer separately so it's a bit of a mindfield!
Click to expand...
The lines are a bit more blurred with AV than they are with Hi-Fi.
 
Even with big floorstanders you still want a subwoofer to handle the low stuff, most people will crossover at 80hz for home theatre. £330 for a P12 or double gem over a £300 xls200 is a no brainer to me.
 
I've just ordered a P12-300SB from BK.

Will be paired with Monitor Audio W280-IDC fronts, W250-LCR centre and Bronze FX rears. I have an Onkyo 828 to run them.
 
lucid said:
That's when things get a bit trickier.

The Gemini II gets down to a little below 40Hz. The number is quite important. Psychoacoustically, we perceive 40Hz as quite a strong bass frequency even though it's nothing like as low as music or films scores can go. Bose have been using this phenomenon for decades. They tune their subs to this frequency so that there's a distinct thump thump from their boxes. What it seems like they don't do is play many bass frequencies above 40Hz, so the music lacks some articulation in the bass range. That's a problem that the Gemini II doesn't have.

With satellite speakers, or smaller bookshelf speakers, a sub that goes down to 40Hz compliments them well. They'll sound like a fairly good floorstander. By 'fairly good' I'm talking about floorstanders at roughly £450* and above. That's really the point where you should be looking for a sub that digs a bit deeper, IMO.


*£450 is about the tipping point where there's enough money in the manufacturer's coffers to pay for the quality of woodworking required to make a large floorstanding cabinet rigid enough that it can compete in pace and precision with a standmounter at half to 2/3rds the price.

The lines are a bit more blurred with AV than they are with Hi-Fi.
Click to expand...

Still weighing everything up, but it sounds like the Gemini II would complement my current setup. Would the XLS200 overpower it? Ideally, I'd like something that suits my current setup that also gives scope to upgrade my speakers in the future.
 
You want the best sub you can afford.

The gemini will be ok in a smaller room and for cd music, to complement bookshelf speakers

Bit forget about it if you want it for action movies, in a medium sized room to complement larger speakers
 
Any shops that do listening tests near you? Imo that's the only way to judge for yourself. Right now everyone else has their own preference and is talking from their point of view, but yours is the important one (for yourself).
 
StartWars said:
Still weighing everything up, but it sounds like the Gemini II would complement my current setup. Would the XLS200 overpower it? Ideally, I'd like something that suits my current setup that also gives scope to upgrade my speakers in the future.
Click to expand...

Overpower?? No, it doesn't work quite that way; lol.

All active subs - even the biggest - have a volume control. It's part of the process for blending the level of the sub to the level of the main speakers during set-up. In reality, most AV receivers with a set-up mic will take care of blending the levels. After that is done, the sub's volume tracks with the main speaker volume. So, a bigger sub doesn't necessarily equate only to louder, although it may well have more power. The main purpose of a bigger sub is that it can play more of the lower frequency notes that small speakers or a smaller sub can't reach. (Sounds like a Heineken advert ;) )

The performance step between the Gemini II and the XLS200 is relatively small given the price difference compared to the P12. If you're unsure, have a think about going for a second-hand Gemini II. Run that until you're ready for the larger main speakers. Then swap out the GII for a P12.
 
Last edited:
By overpowering, I was referring to the comment about the lower frequency limit of my surround speakers for a larger subwoofer.

Is the Gemini 2 also only available in DF? I've only had subwoofers with FF in the past as part of speaker packages, so would this make much difference? I noticed there is currently a discounted model in black on eBay for £211.
 
Without getting in to the maths of it, all the BK subs discussed so far (Gemini II, XLS200, P12 and XXLS400) all have a high-enough upper crossover frequency that they'll blend with the little Tannoy satellites without leaving too much of a dip.

Down-firing vs front-firing: If we're not careful then this can turn in to an exercise in navel-gazing, but broadly speaking, front-firing is said to give slightly more emphasis to the speed and precision of notes, and that's said to be better for music. Down-firing provides more of the seat-of-your-pants rumble that we associate with action movies. It's all relative though: Quality of the product, size of the driver and cabinet, bass ported or sealed etc etc.

Yes, AFAIK, standard Gemini IIs are all down firing.
 
lucid said:
front-firing is said to give slightly more emphasis to the speed and precision of notes, and that's said to be better for music. Down-firing provides more of the seat-of-your-pants rumble that we associate with action movies. It's all relative though: Quality of the product, size of the driver and cabinet, bass ported or sealed etc etc.
Click to expand...
Hadn't come across that DF vs FF comparison before, but makes sense! I guess when talking about the Gemini 2 that's countered by it being a sealed sub, which allegedly is better for Music - particularly in a small room. I know that was one of the key things that drove me towards the Gemini when I bought it last year!
 
Went with the Gemini in the end as it seems like the best match for my current setup and the larger ones are beyond my budget. As lucid said, can always upgrade at a later date if I get larger speakers and a better AV receiver in the future.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!
 
lucid said:
Without getting in to the maths of it, all the BK subs discussed so far (Gemini II, XLS200, P12 and XXLS400) all have a high-enough upper crossover frequency that they'll blend with the little Tannoy satellites without leaving too much of a dip.

Down-firing vs front-firing: If we're not careful then this can turn in to an exercise in navel-gazing, but broadly speaking, front-firing is said to give slightly more emphasis to the speed and precision of notes, and that's said to be better for music. Down-firing provides more of the seat-of-your-pants rumble that we associate with action movies. It's all relative though: Quality of the product, size of the driver and cabinet, bass ported or sealed etc etc.

Yes, AFAIK, standard Gemini IIs are all down firing.
Click to expand...

What would be a good crossover point for XXLS400?

Paired with MA BX6's
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom