*** Supreme Commander 2 ***
- Thread starter Kosmiche
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I do love RTS with variety... Do you gunship swarm and hope you beat the opponents to it or do you try to defend the gunship swarm and retaliate...
This is exactly why RTS are **** online. If it doesn't have decent AI for Skirmish, RTS is fail imo.
Anyone know if there are any better AI's planned?
I'm gonna buy this tomorrow after playing it at the local lan centre today...
It's a different game from SC:FA which will fit in nicely for when I only have 30-60mins for a game
I'm gonna buy this tomorrow after playing it at the local lan centre today...
It's a different game from SC:FA which will fit in nicely for when I only have 30-60mins for a game
its not just that the AI sucks just as much as the original did, worse infact. its the fact they've changed the fundamental way in which the game handles, for the worse it must be said, few examples:
1) Experimentals, in the original game these were the holy grail of the units. slow, ponderous but bloody wonderful, the galactic colossus for example, the enormous, imposing, ever stomping, walking over bases as if they were nothing. experimental in the original game meant 'superunit' basically, and in the new game it means 'reasonably powerful but not at all imposing unit', just don't feel powerful or special in anyway at the moment, which just totally misses the point IMO.
2) Graphics, what the hell is with the games graphics? the water looks pretty impressive but the models seem weak and the textures extremely poor, can max the game out on my laptops 9600M GT and its obvious why.
3) Effects, the new explosions are rather poor, when compared to the original when a unit exploding would throw off debris in random directions, especially the larger experimentals. naval units blow up and sink in a rediculously swift fashion, bang and a couple seconds later theres no evidence it was ever there...?
4) Variety, this is the single biggest gripe for me, back in the day Total Annihilation had an enormous amount of units to choose from, numerous defensive structures, numerous methods of power generation. Supreme Commander (original) took a step back from that slightly, by giving you tiered power generation, etc. which still gave you a goal to achieve, it had light defences then the more powerful defences in the second tier. the new game is so closed minded in comparison, there is nothing to do, setting up bases is so quick and effortless and requires virtually no thought to 'future' levels. as well adjacency bonuses are gone to make the game more 'simple', now im sorry but if you can't grasp adjacency then you should probably be playing pokemon or mario, some braindead rubbish along those lines, adjacency gave you another option to 'think' about how you set up your preliminary base, you don't have to do it but its there as an option, why remove it?
the list goes on endlessly, I personally regret purchasing the game, at least then I wouldn't have to ponder why they so royally messed up a brilliant game. the final piece of feedback is, units, they feel so weak and pointless. tanks are these tiny little, unarmoured, worthless things that explode if you sneeze in their direction, aircraft are stronger than tanks for crying out loud, thats logical thinking? my final verdict is (completely opposite to most 'paid' reviewers) that the game has been SERIOUSLY dumbed down and simplified to appeal to children and people who don't want 'strategy' in there strategy game, people who think C&C is the perfect RTS, and the graphics engine has so many telltale signs of severe and terminal consolistis, its such an enormous step (hell its a hop skip and jump) backwards and I for one feel truly gutted and somewhat 'betrayed', playing Chris Taylor games (TA, SC, SC:FA) since the later part of the 90's.
1) Experimentals, in the original game these were the holy grail of the units. slow, ponderous but bloody wonderful, the galactic colossus for example, the enormous, imposing, ever stomping, walking over bases as if they were nothing. experimental in the original game meant 'superunit' basically, and in the new game it means 'reasonably powerful but not at all imposing unit', just don't feel powerful or special in anyway at the moment, which just totally misses the point IMO.
2) Graphics, what the hell is with the games graphics? the water looks pretty impressive but the models seem weak and the textures extremely poor, can max the game out on my laptops 9600M GT and its obvious why.
3) Effects, the new explosions are rather poor, when compared to the original when a unit exploding would throw off debris in random directions, especially the larger experimentals. naval units blow up and sink in a rediculously swift fashion, bang and a couple seconds later theres no evidence it was ever there...?
4) Variety, this is the single biggest gripe for me, back in the day Total Annihilation had an enormous amount of units to choose from, numerous defensive structures, numerous methods of power generation. Supreme Commander (original) took a step back from that slightly, by giving you tiered power generation, etc. which still gave you a goal to achieve, it had light defences then the more powerful defences in the second tier. the new game is so closed minded in comparison, there is nothing to do, setting up bases is so quick and effortless and requires virtually no thought to 'future' levels. as well adjacency bonuses are gone to make the game more 'simple', now im sorry but if you can't grasp adjacency then you should probably be playing pokemon or mario, some braindead rubbish along those lines, adjacency gave you another option to 'think' about how you set up your preliminary base, you don't have to do it but its there as an option, why remove it?
the list goes on endlessly, I personally regret purchasing the game, at least then I wouldn't have to ponder why they so royally messed up a brilliant game. the final piece of feedback is, units, they feel so weak and pointless. tanks are these tiny little, unarmoured, worthless things that explode if you sneeze in their direction, aircraft are stronger than tanks for crying out loud, thats logical thinking? my final verdict is (completely opposite to most 'paid' reviewers) that the game has been SERIOUSLY dumbed down and simplified to appeal to children and people who don't want 'strategy' in there strategy game, people who think C&C is the perfect RTS, and the graphics engine has so many telltale signs of severe and terminal consolistis, its such an enormous step (hell its a hop skip and jump) backwards and I for one feel truly gutted and somewhat 'betrayed', playing Chris Taylor games (TA, SC, SC:FA) since the later part of the 90's.
Anyone who has ANY doubts about this game in terms of multiplayer/ replayability for skirmishes just go watch some competitive replays and you can be rest assured everything PoD has said is SPOT ON.
If you are buying this game purely for single player/ campaign- the original campaign was poor and this (imo) is still poor but better than the first. The reason the demo leaves such a bad taste is because you have a limited tech tree with limited units- in the later stages, these are no longer there and neither in MP.
If (like me) you loved the epic battles with 100s of units and having skirmishes via LAN with friends/ family this IS still that same gameplay experience albeit in a more frantic/ faster pace and a more enjoyable experience! You can play the game how you want, turtle with base defences etc.. but expect yourself to be hammered in MP as its all about ACU/ gunship harassment atm.
Hopefully with time these OP issues will be ironed out leaving us with a great RTS!
If you are buying this game purely for single player/ campaign- the original campaign was poor and this (imo) is still poor but better than the first. The reason the demo leaves such a bad taste is because you have a limited tech tree with limited units- in the later stages, these are no longer there and neither in MP.
If (like me) you loved the epic battles with 100s of units and having skirmishes via LAN with friends/ family this IS still that same gameplay experience albeit in a more frantic/ faster pace and a more enjoyable experience! You can play the game how you want, turtle with base defences etc.. but expect yourself to be hammered in MP as its all about ACU/ gunship harassment atm.
Hopefully with time these OP issues will be ironed out leaving us with a great RTS!
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Lol, it was late and been playing a lot of bc2, you know what I meant!
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but how is this strategically any worse than it's predecessors other than the lack of formations? If anything the research element brings a whole new dimension to your game strategy?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but how is this strategically any worse than it's predecessors other than the lack of formations? If anything the research element brings a whole new dimension to your game strategy?
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My tactics last night were a combination of the fighter/bomber for AA combat and land AA units. Once air supremacy was established, I was able to harass the opposition's engineers and surrounding areas - preventing any further air development. My teammates were able to quickly knock-up land attack units.
Nukes were accidently left activated in the game, but this had a challenging effect as the opposition had 10's of nuke defence and a handful of nuke launchers. They were able to nullify any nukes we had. I quickly created a load of gunships and sent two waves of air units to remove AA defences, nuke defences then ground defences. This opened the way for further nuking and a ground attack.
Key to our game was the 10 min restricted area lock, which allowed each team time to specialise in their roles. The game then becomes a race against time to establish your position.
FreeForAll does become a spam fest where the winner is the fastest person to build air units. However, in Versus mode, co-operation and team roles are key to winning the game and enjoying it.
I agree the game needs some more units, but hopefully we will see this in the near future from the mod community. Gas Powered Games have a dedicated forum for player suggestions, so I think the game will develop for the better. Also, the community have already found a way of increasing the research trees to 60-odd levels! Stick with this game if you are an RTS fan.
Most of you are talking about simple things a patch in 'WEEK TWO' will fix. Seriously week two just begining and your complaing that the game is broken, its a wonder you get out of bed in the morning. Emos
This is blantently not a FPS, but a Real Time Battle Simulation so if you truly think that and aren't just trolling then in all honesty you have no idea how to play it. So here is a few:
Basically this game offers a lot of strategies to win, some unique to individual factions.
Everything that has been described are feelings that ran through my head when I first started playing. Number of units, Graphics, Tech Tree, Size of maps, Experimentals feeling cheaper, Air units being to strong and the ACU scaling badly, but these are minor issues and once I appreciated what had been fixed compared to FA and what else had been brought to the table my initial concerns were not necessary.
A few bug fixes and I'm confident we will have some solid online matches.
1) Experimental's were great in the original and I admit I initially was very sceptical, but if you want a good RTS battle you have to go online and online you rarely if ever bought an experimental except in 20nr x2 resources noob games and if I joined one of them I would fire 10 nukes on the 21st minute and its game over. Basically they looked great, but with the exception of the Monkey rush (which wasnt really a valid strategy TBH) nobody used them. They needed fixing and this was the solution, sure it removes 'some' of the power, but they are still fearce.
Bomb Bouncers are a UEF's worst nightmare
I think the only faction that got it in the experimental neck is the Cybran, but the way the game scales you rarely just use one experimental. They are now the line backer used to provide huge DPS in certain areas of your army rather than the centre forward or striker that goes off and wins the game on its own (which many perceived (incorrectly) Experimental's as being FA)
I could go through each experimental giving its strengths, but just go play the game yourself and see.
2) 3) Graphics and effects (same thing) and yeah they havent been advanced and I join you in hating the models, but this is the way of all games currently, Consoles are like 70%+ of the market and big manufacturers with non dedicated fanbases (which this no longer has) cant afford to ignore that, get over it.
4) Variety, well I have one word for you 'Balance'. Everyone is TA one competitive matches with Pee Wee spam. Thats the lowest T1 unit and thats what everyone whined about in FA and your now complaining about in this.
Unteched units are weak, but they are supposed to be else teched units wouldn't do much would they (that word again 'balance')
Starcraft 2 has a number of units, but they have spent how long (two years?) with the pro's trying to perfect balance, which will still be off at release I guarantee.
Aircraft are stronger than tanks in reality. The only thing thats broken is the AA in this currently, but that wont be broken for long and as stated in my previous post, people throw C&C around as being a weak RTS without any clear understanding of why, sort of like a schoolboy comment really.
A strategy game with the strategy part ripped out is what this game seems to be.
This is blantently not a FPS, but a Real Time Battle Simulation so if you truly think that and aren't just trolling then in all honesty you have no idea how to play it. So here is a few:
- Go air and blanket bomb or harrass mechs
- Go land and rush for control of early mechs to gain a significant lead and then build more factories
- Go ACU and attack with my super avatar to annihilate the enemy
- Go structure and turtle up a bit to build my base and get some experimentals or powered land units
- Go Navy and attack behind the enemy line
Basically this game offers a lot of strategies to win, some unique to individual factions.
Everything that has been described are feelings that ran through my head when I first started playing. Number of units, Graphics, Tech Tree, Size of maps, Experimentals feeling cheaper, Air units being to strong and the ACU scaling badly, but these are minor issues and once I appreciated what had been fixed compared to FA and what else had been brought to the table my initial concerns were not necessary.
A few bug fixes and I'm confident we will have some solid online matches.
1) Experimental's were great in the original and I admit I initially was very sceptical, but if you want a good RTS battle you have to go online and online you rarely if ever bought an experimental except in 20nr x2 resources noob games and if I joined one of them I would fire 10 nukes on the 21st minute and its game over. Basically they looked great, but with the exception of the Monkey rush (which wasnt really a valid strategy TBH) nobody used them. They needed fixing and this was the solution, sure it removes 'some' of the power, but they are still fearce.
Bomb Bouncers are a UEF's worst nightmare
I think the only faction that got it in the experimental neck is the Cybran, but the way the game scales you rarely just use one experimental. They are now the line backer used to provide huge DPS in certain areas of your army rather than the centre forward or striker that goes off and wins the game on its own (which many perceived (incorrectly) Experimental's as being FA)
I could go through each experimental giving its strengths, but just go play the game yourself and see.
2) 3) Graphics and effects (same thing) and yeah they havent been advanced and I join you in hating the models, but this is the way of all games currently, Consoles are like 70%+ of the market and big manufacturers with non dedicated fanbases (which this no longer has) cant afford to ignore that, get over it.
4) Variety, well I have one word for you 'Balance'. Everyone is TA one competitive matches with Pee Wee spam. Thats the lowest T1 unit and thats what everyone whined about in FA and your now complaining about in this.
Unteched units are weak, but they are supposed to be else teched units wouldn't do much would they (that word again 'balance')
Starcraft 2 has a number of units, but they have spent how long (two years?) with the pro's trying to perfect balance, which will still be off at release I guarantee.
Aircraft are stronger than tanks in reality. The only thing thats broken is the AA in this currently, but that wont be broken for long and as stated in my previous post, people throw C&C around as being a weak RTS without any clear understanding of why, sort of like a schoolboy comment really.
i'm lost for words.
Does anyone know if they are going to implement Saves in Skirmish mode? lol. I remember praying for this back during the Red Alert days.
I respect SC2 in a lot of areas, as I still play it daily, mostly skirmish and sometimes online when I want to witness a gunship charge.
The more you play the game, the more these flaws become apparent when you think carefully about it. The game could have been so much more - without the help of any mods on the way. I really want to like this game, hence why I am quite vocal about it.
Most of my notes mention skirmishes as I rarely RTS online due to it being DULL unless you get a group of friends together, and I rarely have hours to spare for long sessions anymore.
I respect SC2 in a lot of areas, as I still play it daily, mostly skirmish and sometimes online when I want to witness a gunship charge.
- I like that they have done away with tech'ing up mexes, as that was a pet peeve of FA for me, and also it really hit FA's performance.
- I like the tech tree, that now replaces teching up your SC/FA factories. You no longer have to dump your tech1 units as they all get upraded in one go. A lot of SC/FA structures have now been integrated into the tree - good for performance.
- I like the economy. I had my doubts but it works well.
- I love some of the new experimentals. The T-Rex is dumb, as is the Fatboy II but that Mobile Air Factory and the Bomb Bouncer truly rock.
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- Textures/Units/Visuals - nuff said.
- Where are the unit tooltips that present us with unit payload details?
- Why does my commander randomly spin around in 360 degree circles whilst building things?
- Why have experimentals lost their purpose? Major experimentals were meant to be super units that were an achievement when it popped out of a factory. Now they can be taken out by 10 odd tanks.
- Why is the AI harking back from 1996? Sorian was on the team as I've said and yet it is massively worse than SC/FA and virtually every other RTS.
- Got maps? I hate them all due to their size. My beloved Setons is tiny.
- Research points build up way too fast. This is a tricky one to look at but I should not be able to build nukes like 10mins into a skirmish game.
- What clowntown released the game with such poor balance that gamers were complaining about it hours after their first playthroughs? Yes updates and patches resolve this, but why not just delay the game and save face?
The more you play the game, the more these flaws become apparent when you think carefully about it. The game could have been so much more - without the help of any mods on the way. I really want to like this game, hence why I am quite vocal about it.
Most of my notes mention skirmishes as I rarely RTS online due to it being DULL unless you get a group of friends together, and I rarely have hours to spare for long sessions anymore.
Wish they would add some bigger maps, hate playing on small maps. Game is getting a lot of prase for its multiplayer atm, plays slick and is prittey balanced (apart from gunships lol).
Not tried multiplayer myself, need more practice only did 4-5 skirmishes since i finished the campain on normal.
Not tried multiplayer myself, need more practice only did 4-5 skirmishes since i finished the campain on normal.
Why? It was a combined effort from our team to take down the opposition.
If you read the post, you'll see that the air units were used strategically - clearing defences first instead of the usual swarm over base, hunt and kill the commander.
I agree that the air units are used and abused, but what I'm trying point out that with good tactics you can eradicate the usual air spam.
what tactics are involved other than spam air ?
im not questioning your gameplay as you're using what is available but when people use air units to seek and destroy Anti Air then it even sounds silly.
so you use gunships to kill the commander...you use gunships to kill tanks....you use gunships to kill experimentals....you use gunships to destroy the enemy base......you use gunships to kill turrets....you use gunships to kill ships.....you use gunships to kill anti air turrets.
i suppose it makes it easier to draw a box around a group of units with an xbox controller and click attack when they are all of the same type.
just hold on one second there, i wasn't saying the game is uncompetative or anything, im sure it is very competative if you enjoy gunship spamming. its not a problem just with supreme commander 2 for me but RTS as a whole at the moment, supreme commander was the last great RTS i can think of and im not just saying that because i hate C&C or anything, really liked C&C3 and C&C generals. the problem is the thinking behind the games, they aren't capturing the essence of what war machines are like, type battleship into google and your bombarded by images of these staggering, monsterous, gargantuan ships loaded with huge batteries of guns, with thick plates of steel protecting them. its steel, smoke and mountains of noise from those cannons. does supreme commander (original) capture that? yes it does quite well, battleships were supreme shore bombardment tools, shelling land masses well outside their own vision range, just like real battleship, you zoom into the action, the guns give out great whollops of noise as they launch their projectiles and you feel 'immersed' by the experience. does supreme commander (second) do the same? no it doesn't, battleships look horribly subdued, you zoom into the action and it doesn't feel like an event anymore, the guns let fly but all you get is 'some' noise, they aren't large and imposing and seemingly have no staying power.
the whole battleship mention was just and example to try to explain my argument, don't go and say 'watch some competative game replays and see how this is a great game' because thats not the problem, competative games online are somewhat shallow to be frank, dominated by too many players who simply follow a routine to rush gunships. personally prefer games against friends who don't take everything so seriously. back to the topic though, its the heart and soul of the game that is missing, not the 'balance' of the units.
another example are tanks, what are tanks? tanks are armoured mobile gun platforms, only really vunerable to specialised anti-tank weapons (please for crying out loud nobody say 'well actually IEDs prove effective against tanks in certain situations' or some rubbish like that) the point is, again search tank on google and you get images of these armoured fighting machines, muddy treads, grinding metal, armour plates and a nice looking cannon which makes loads of noise! the original was pretty weak in respect to tanks but nowhere near as weak as the second, tanks are the tiniest little things in the second game, like smaller than your ACU foot and again seem to have absolutely no staying power under almost any circumstances, they don't make much noise or many pretty explosions? whats the point in a tank that isn't a tank? and one could argue that tanks in reality are weak against aircraft in some circumstances they aren't likely to simply explode under any aircraft fire.
a workmate of mine feels the exact same about the game and he said hes giving up on it only days after its release, bearing in mind this is a person who loved the original, surely we're not the only people who feel like that? don't you feel robbed of the total lack of 'event' in the new game? the lack of any real scale? and i hate to say it but the game still isn't diverse, not really. sorry if you don't agree with this but its just my personal impression and its not being forced upon you in anyway so don't bother replying with insulting replies stating 'schoolboy' comments
the whole battleship mention was just and example to try to explain my argument, don't go and say 'watch some competative game replays and see how this is a great game' because thats not the problem, competative games online are somewhat shallow to be frank, dominated by too many players who simply follow a routine to rush gunships. personally prefer games against friends who don't take everything so seriously. back to the topic though, its the heart and soul of the game that is missing, not the 'balance' of the units.
another example are tanks, what are tanks? tanks are armoured mobile gun platforms, only really vunerable to specialised anti-tank weapons (please for crying out loud nobody say 'well actually IEDs prove effective against tanks in certain situations' or some rubbish like that) the point is, again search tank on google and you get images of these armoured fighting machines, muddy treads, grinding metal, armour plates and a nice looking cannon which makes loads of noise! the original was pretty weak in respect to tanks but nowhere near as weak as the second, tanks are the tiniest little things in the second game, like smaller than your ACU foot and again seem to have absolutely no staying power under almost any circumstances, they don't make much noise or many pretty explosions? whats the point in a tank that isn't a tank? and one could argue that tanks in reality are weak against aircraft in some circumstances they aren't likely to simply explode under any aircraft fire.
a workmate of mine feels the exact same about the game and he said hes giving up on it only days after its release, bearing in mind this is a person who loved the original, surely we're not the only people who feel like that? don't you feel robbed of the total lack of 'event' in the new game? the lack of any real scale? and i hate to say it but the game still isn't diverse, not really. sorry if you don't agree with this but its just my personal impression and its not being forced upon you in anyway so don't bother replying with insulting replies stating 'schoolboy' comments
this man speaks the complete truth
Edit: forgot to mention, why the hell does the game have to require steam to play? payed for the game, so why do i have to use that crappy service just to play it? game developers get your priorities straight, i mean who the hell would want to steal supreme commander II?
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