Switching from OLED to Projection.. anyone done it?

[aoaaron]

Hey,

I have a 77 CX OLED but I'm thinking of moving back to projection. Has anyone had similar thoughts ot done the same route?

My 77'' CX OLED cost £5k and looks beautiful, stunning, reference quality PQ, HDR is sublime. But.. the lack of a cinematic feel due to the screen size is apparent. If it was maybe 88''... it'd work, but at 77'', it still feels like a TV.

I'm contemplating returning it and getting a 110'' ALR screen and a JVC X7900 which should cost me if bought second hand £3000 and then waiting for the next JVC refresh of PJs.

any thoughts on anyone who has made this move?

I did own a Epson 9400 for 2 weeks and it was great but i returned it for the OLED. Its weird as the OLED just feels perfect, the 9400 always left me wanting more... but the Epson 9400 made my jaw drop countless times too... the level of immersion.. especially i remember Aquaman where my sister said she felt like she was under water during the Imax scenes.. isn't there with the OLED.... I'm looking at a TV.. its clear.


anyway any thoughts from enthusiasts who've experience with both?

 

[aoaaron]

Just done it the other way around. Went from a 90" projection screen size with a JVC HD550 (DILA) to a 65" B9.
Can say that I really miss the size difference.
Certainly do notice the improved resolution and black levels.

The PQ is on a different levelf from my experience too but I really really miss the size, and I'm playing with a 77'' OLED. I went from the 4K HDR 9400 and I'd say the PJ managed to look sharper than my OLED due to its inbuilt picture processing (likely oversharpening)

I'm keeping a close eye out for a JVC X7900.
I would get an NX7 but I feel its overpriced and that the next refresh might be significant.

95 vs 77
http://www.displaywars.com/95-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9

110 vs 77
http://www.displaywars.com/110-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9


I guess its not rocket science why one is more immersive than the other.

 

[aoaaron]

Swap the 77" OLED for a 65" OLED.

Take the £3k saving and buy a projector set up.

The oled is going to be so much better for certain things like daily viewing.

The projector will be for special occasions or AAA movies, etc.

The 77" OLED is horrifically overpriced. Wait 2-5 years and the newer models out then will be £3k or less.

It's usually best not to buy the absolute biggest but one or two down and upgrade more often.

Thanks but I've already had a 65'' OLED (still have it in our snug).

I replaced the 65'' OLED with a 77'' OLED as I found the 65'' way too small. The 40% extra real estate of the 77'' model I found a VAST improvement on the 65'' OLED. Honestly I couldn't stomach going form a 100''' projector screent to the 65 incher so this just wouldn't work for me.

Sadly 77'' doesn't quite compare to 110'' (my new PJ screen I got for a steal).

65'' vs 110''
http://www.displaywars.com/65-inch-16x9-vs-110-inch-16x9

I already have a projector setup. If I were to dump more money into my projection setup, I'm looking at:
1. Buying an Epson 9400 again (£2.5k.. wary to buy this as I feel Epson will upgrade in <12 months).
2. JVC X7900 (£2.5k second hand??)
3. JVC NX7 (£8.5k), or NX5 (£6.5k)




I agree, 77'' is very overpriced but its the only affordable semi-big screen option in the OLED world. 88'' is too expensive for me and 65'' feels so small at a viewing distance of 65''. I can't take a film seriously on it and would rather have it on a 1080p projector than the 4k oled c9 i had 65''/.

 

[aoaaron]

Does it need to be one or the other? Why not both! That is the optimum solution.

Different devices for different things.
Cant beat 100"+ for movies. Needs a good sound system to enhance the immersion tho.
I run my Nintendo switch on the QLED as the brightness for Nintendo games like Mario Odyssey just cannot be beaten and loving Last of Us 2 , Ghosts of Tushima etc on the OLED for the contrast ratio and blackness. And the movies and PC gaming go on the PJ.

I think likely I will end up keeping 77'' OLED for games and trying to buy an Epson 9400 or JVC X7900 second hand for £2500. That way I have 110'' projector for films and video games, the 77'' OLED.

I do have both atm but the PJ I returned was Epson 9400 as it had a fault and replaced with an older Sony model.

I do agree that video games especially are just incredible on OLED but I've never owned a native 4k projector like the JVC NX7.. maybe they look incredible on that. I know on my Epson 9400, the Last of us 2 did not look as good as it looked on my 77'' CX. Gap between the two was big.

 

[aoaaron]

I have the best of both worlds, so I'm well placed to comment.

I've owned at least one of each generation of the LG OLED TVs since 2015; except for the 2020 range, which I've skipped. I rate them highly and use them in all of my rooms and use them for all purposes for which a consumer would conceivably use a display, including as a computer monitor. They excel at movies and gaming in particular. Their only (minor) weak point is motion handling and -from what I understand- the 2020 range improves on this considerably.

That said, there's something inherently pleasing about projected image. I own a JVC N5 DILA 4K projector. These are amazing. Paired with a nice M&K speaker setup and a good 120" fixed screen, it's unbeatable for movies and AAA story-driven single player games. It's a good deal more economical than an 88" OLED; though I understand perhaps a bit less versatile for day to day use.

I'd love to pair a JVC N5 with my Arendals!

So the projector wins basically?

How much did you manage to get the N5 for? I am toying with just trying to find a good deal on an N5. My only hesistancy stems from it hasn't had any price drops since being new, so I feel short changed buying the projector a year into its lifespan.

 

[aoaaron]

I went the other way around too. 100" screen with mid range 1080P Epson projector, to 65" OLED.
I also moved the lounge around so I now sit a bit closer to the screen. If it's in a dedicated cinema room and just for movies, projector would probably be better.
But there's so much the OLED does better as an all round set for normal TV, gaming, etc. I still appreciated I don't need to shut curtains to watch the TV anymore.

To be fair, I'm talking about a 4k, HDR projector versus an 4K HDR OLED. I've owned a 1080p PJ and a 4K-Eshift HDR PJ and the difference between the two was staggering.

I agree though that a 1080p old PJ versus a any new display, the PJ is going to show its age somewhat.

I do have a dedicated room so I feel as if the 77'' OLED might be in the return box to John Lewis in the next month or so (they are currently waiting on a replacement TV for me).

 

[aoaaron]

I was with you until you said viewing distance of 65" surely a mistake as that's less than 6 feet away.

I use a 43" at a bigger viewing distance and yes it's small but the biggest I can fit in a hidden enclosure within a false wall. It works for that room.

I also have a 55" in the bedroom at about 8 foot viewing distance and it's massive. I can't go bigger either again restricted by space in between the door to en suite and the door into the room. But if I could go bigger at that distance there is no way at 8 foot 77" would feel small as I have a mate who has a 75" at 8 foot in his living room and it's simply massive. I don't think you could enjoy viewing on anything bigger without missing details around the edges of the screen.

Even my 32" gaming monitor is too big for competitive gaming at desk distance. If I have to check the radar I have to take my eye off the ball which isn't a good thing.

I also have mates who bought a 75" at a viewing distance of around 15-20 feet it's a massive home (7 bedroom with 5 en suites) and 3 further bathrooms.

It looks fine to me.

Do you have an issue with your eyes or eyesight?

2.8M distance from a 65'' TV for me feels too small. I've used a 100'' projector from 2.8M distance so going back to 65'' feels postage stamp sized sadly.
Everyone has different standards for immersion. I can tell you that everyone who has been in my home theatre room much preferred the projector to the 65'' OLED (the PJ screen is electric and goes over the TV when in use so its easy to switch )

No issues with eyesight or eyes on myself or anyone who who's used it (estimated 30 people)

This is all from personal experience. I have the projector, a 65'' OLED, a 77'' OLED and a 65'' Panasonic 902B in house at the moment. The 65'' is useable, sure, but its not good enough for a cinematic experience IMO. Especially black bar content. The 77'' OLED doesn't give me that same cinematic feel as the projection either. Its nice, but i could do with a bit more width and height (and I'm talking size wise, not PQ wise where the OLED is far far superior).

6 metres and a 75'' TV for a home cinema display??? God he should get a PJ and ALR screen with that amazing room!

 

[aoaaron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dITsG7LSSbw&t=893s

I think Sparechange (youtuber) recently got a JVC NX7.. hmm..


These guys went to the NX9 (from 77'' OLED)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A9sMLIKZWc&t=631s

Damn their wallets.

 

[aoaaron]

No I would never go projector - I've had them set up and demos and even $20k model couldn't even get half the picture quality of an OLED.

Have you seen a JVC N5 or N7 in a treated room or with a good ALR screen? Which projectors have you seen?

I do agree though. OLED PQ is sublime. However it comes in postage stamp size compared to projectors.

Thats my 77'' OLED vs my incoming 110'' PJ screen.

For films, the OLED is nice as a reference monitor but as an experience, with a good sound system, I struggle to take is seriously compared to the PJ. You trade black level but you can actually see the details because the image is so big. You appreciate detail whilst with an OLED, its more a crisp sharp image which I appreciate.

 

[aoaaron]

If you have the room the nothing beats a huge screen with decent sound. I would find a 77” OLED too small for my needs.

What size screen have you got?

I'm in the process of buying a 110'' ALR screen. Thinking it might be good enough for my future needs for a while as it'll be in my smallest room in my new house.

 

[aoaaron]

Difficult question. I don't think I'd give up my OLEDs; but I'd say the projector wins. Like I say, there's something timeless and appealing about a projected image. I'd say speakers as good as the Arendal Sound 1723 series deserve it.

The N5 was a smoking deal. It was an ex-demo unit with about 70 hours on it for just under £5000. That was in December. Previously used a JVC X3 model from circa 2012, so quite a step up despite both using the excellent DILA tech.

In terms of buying a projector mid-cycle - I wouldn't worry too much about it. At the end of the day, the N5 has all of the features you would need in a projector: True 4K resolution; low-latency for gaming; great contrast; full bandwith HDMI ports; HDR10; etc. Next year's model might offer 8K e-shift but my guess is that they won't actually be able to play native 8K content. With projectors, you don't feel as wrapped up in the tech-spec arms race as you would with a TV (that's partly because things like the quality of HDR on a TV is very noticeable -you notice the improvement from generation to generation- whereas it's quite subtle on a projector).

In terms of an ALR screen. They are good for their intended purpose in a more domestic setting; but my view is that if you can control the ambient light in the room, an ALR screen isn't needed.

Thank you. You're definitely not wrong. If I could find an excellent price on an N5, I'd bite.
I might just settle for a x7900 if one ever comes up for sale for around £2.5k (a fair few went for that price earlier this year before lockdown on other forums).


ALR screens, I just love being able to turn on a light or open up a door and the image still looks very similar

 

[aoaaron]

Yeah I own a 75" TV and a Sony VPL-VW350ES 4k PJ and TV everyday for viewing and the PJ for films and special events. I can'timagine owning and running a PJ for everyday tbh esepcially as day footage suffers in light unless you live like a hermit in blacked out rooms 24/7.

Personally, like someone else says, return it, go for a solid 65" and buy a PJ with remaning money!!! BTW, my PJ is epic, absolutely epic, and love it,. but every day? nahhhh

My draper react ALR screen does well for anything which isn't dark content, especially with the Epson 9400.

I can't stand a 65'' screen, thats the issue. Its honestly awfully small and I feel (after experiencing the 77 inch panel) a far far inferior experience. Nothing feels cinematic and nothing feels immersive from a 2.8m viewing distance. Its most definitely.. a TV-experience whilst the 77''' at least ventures into the cinematic.

I am tempted to just keep the 77'' panel AND get a PJ, or get a 75'' old 3D TV as I miss 3D films on a TV and get a PJ.


(Sorry to all 65'' owners.. P.S. I have a 65'' C9 and a 65'' 902B and they've both been relegated to rooms with small viewing distances/where I don't watch them).

 

[aoaaron]

No fella that's what I'd actually do, is keep the 77"... I was assuming that you couldn't afford both but yeah, no way on earth would I go backwards from my 75" now... not a chance, infact that feels small in my living room and would really want 85" in the living room... and I'll be moving to a 120" on the PJ over the next couple of months as I'm building a dedicated cinema room beneath my living room at 21ftx18ft so, wanted 133/150" BUT that is going to take too much brightness/nits/lumens off my PJ and I want to keep the nits above 100 so 120" it is!

Mate if you can afford it, deffo keep the 77" and go PJ!!! Plus my PJ runs 3D as well so I have the best of both worlds infact.

Its just so hard to find a decently priced PJ.

I'm tempted to check out the DLPs... not sure how well the black levels will or won't be or whether to just go back to the Epson 9400... or wait for a JVC X7900. I miss 3D.

 

[aoaaron]

Fundamentally it's the people who havent had a large image in their own space clinging onto their spec sheet OLEDs. My friend has a 55" LG OLED in similar size lounges, he sees my projector setup for the first time and goes 'whoa'.

Exactly (and sadly).

Close minded people and fanboys will always favour the technologies they know.

I have a 77 inch OLED and 65 inch OLED in house but because I've had projection in the same room, I can appreciate the superiority in experience of a PJ and the technical superiority of the OLEDs.

Not sure why people keep comparing PJ's to OLED's, completely different tech, it's like saying my Lambourghini is better than your Vauxhall Astra... pointless, two completely different reasons for buying. I own and LCD, OLED and a PJ... and they all have their own benefits but I NEVER compare them, why would I they all serve different purposes... BUT I know one thing, when a new 4k disc comes down I'm straight onto the PJ.

We're comparing because if you need to choose between the two for a specific space, they compete against eachother. For example, if I have a budget of £5k or £8k, and I'm interested in the JVC line of PJs and LG OLEDs, sadly I need to compare them if I want a TV of a fairly reasonable size.

I completely agree with you on that. Which PJ have you got? Is your room treated?

 

[aoaaron]

The ALR screen improves the contrast by a large amount. Not as good as OLED but more then good enough. Some ALR screens more then triple contrast so a 3000:1 turns into better then 10,000:1 native and then a further improvement with dynamic iris if you have that.

My Draper React ALR transformed a measly HW40ES, and with the Epson 9400 darastically improved the image. I do understand if people see a PJ projected onto a wall, they'd be a bit 'meh' about it, but I agree that on a nice ALR screen, it really really helps alter the perceived contrast.

Dynamic Iris, honestly I'm not sold on. My 9400 had it and it was always a second behind the complete black which a screen shows which kind of sucks.

Obviously the best thing to do is black-out the entire room and put some nice felt on the by the PJ screen.

If I can find a new house to buy, this would be first on my priority list.

 

[aoaaron]

So what are these projectors and what is a good price?

Ill be honest ill have a budget of £3k max to get both an OLED and a projector.

I'd also spend most of the money on the screen and the oled. With a cheap projector which I would likley upgrade in time.

Is that possible?

I'd also wait for the 65 inch OLEDs to be around the £1500 mark come January / February.

Leaving me with £1500 for a projector screen and projector. So what does that get me?

At £3k, in all honesty your budget is too small for a top tier projector experience which will have black levels close to an OLED.

ALR screen runs about £1k-£2k dependant on size.
Projector wise, you can look at the Epson 9400 (which still has compromises on black level) for £2.5k new or the JVC X7900 for £3000 second hand. If you want true native 4K projection with good black levels, you're looking at the JVC NX5, NX7 which are £6.5k and £8.5k respectively.

If you are prepared to sacrifice black levels and still want 4K, you can try a DLP projector from BenQ or Optoma.

If you are prepared to go for 1080p projection, then second hand options open up dramatically on the second hand market. You can grab a bargain like the Sony HW40ES or JVC X3 for £500 and see if you like projection. If you do, then sell it on and pay a lot more for a DLP for example.


Projection is amazing, but its not cheap if you want 4K and deep blacks (Sadly).

However, if you don't care for black levels being the blackest possible, then DLPs are very good value and incredibly sharp with the best 3D motion and crosstalk performance of the bunch. (I am strongly thinking of buying one).

 

[aoaaron]

Nothing to do with fanboyism.

The technologies are better for different things.

If I was going to get a projector and I likley will at some point. I'd still have an OLED in the same room. I'd set the projector up so it comes down over the wall mounted oled.

You cannot say it's people clinging on to what they know or are used to.

OLED is far superior in every way bar size.

And that is a major issue because bigger is better. It's why in a cinema you have a 200 foot screen for all of you to view versus a 21 inch screen up close.

Both of them are better at different jobs.

I own no less than 15 pairs of headphones and earphones.

Why?

Because they are all good at different jobs.

AKG q701 - gaming and music
Sennheisers HD 600 - music and vocals
Sennheiser HD 700 - gaming
Dt770 - for use when someone else is in the same room or lots of background noise
Xm3 - for use on planes because of the noise cancelling
In ears - used for public transport
Wireless in ears - used for the gym but poorer sound quality when compared to wired in ears.

You cannot use akg 701's on a plane or on public transport. We'll you could just that you would get a lot of people complaining or giving you looks and you would be able to hear all the crap in the background.

OLED and a projector for me. To pick just one is compromising.

I'd use the oled for day to day stuff like watching the news, gaming, etc.

I'd use the projector for special occasions and football and movies.

I dont know which I'd watch a TV series on I'd have to have both to see what suited it best.

If anything the people that only have projectors saying they are great at everything they are the fan boys who can't take any criticism.

When I had an Epson 9400 and a 65'' OLED, I used the projector for virtually everything.

Sports, films, video games all felt substantially more epic on a 100'' screen rather than a 65'' one. For casual viewing, it was really nice as everyone had a good view of the screen as its so massive.

With the 77'' OLED, I do find myself preferring gaming on that though because video games benefit hugely from contrast and the colour black... But I've sadly never had in my room a top tier projector like the NX5 or NX7 which would have black levels and a contrast which could shine.

I much preferred watching the Sopranos on the projector. Felt lovely. You can appreciate little details so much better than on a small, cramped screen.

I remember the Lion King 4K HDR on the Epson was incredible because I could see the individual hairs on Simba in the starting sequence. On a TV, everything just looks sharper, but on a projection due to the incredible size, you don't think 'wow this is sharp', you think 'wow I can see this specific detail'.


Another very incredible part of the Epson was 3D. Wow.

I've heard DLPs are better for 3D so I have been edging towards trying to find a cheap, very bright 3D DLP projector to tide me over.


Also, if you're only going to use a projector for special occasions, I think it will be hard to justify dedicating a big portion of your budget to a projector and screen if the TV gets more use.

 

[aoaaron]

I read black levels of the 9400 were comparible to the HW40? I have an HW40 it's by no means measly IMO?

We are doing a video of my setup, taking a while deciding what to talk about and why.

After having both in house, I'd say the HW40 might actually have better black levels.

My Projector is EVER so slightly smaller than my screen, but I could never notice the black border of my PJ screen to the HW40 on films with bars.
However with the 9400 it was VERY noticeable.

The blacks looked better on the 9400 but the black bars showed IMO the real black floor. I think the common line of thought is that the 9400 has better black levels but IMO the blacks look better due to the better highlights.

I had the HW40 and the 9400 in-house at the same time when I made these comparisons.

 

[aoaaron]

Also doesn't your room have to be pretty much pitch black for using the projector?

Or light extremely controlled or restricted?

I think I'll make my own screen.

Get a massive piece of mdf. Prime it then mix up some special projector paint and I'll then create some hooks so I can hang it then also a string pulley to lift it up into the ceiling and have something nice on the other side so it becomes a feature within the room.

Ill likely pick up a top end second hand 1080p projector to begin with. Once 4k matures and prices are much better I'll upgrade.

However there is no way I could watch everything on a projector in a pitch black room all the time.

I use an ALR screen (Draper React 3.0).

I rarely had the lights on but I always had a curtain shining light into the room which wasn't drawn of the door open, and my walls were all white.

 

[aoaaron]

I personally wouldn't for that money. Things were a little different before OLED came along and became affordable in larger sizes. We were comparing 40-50" panels with grey black levels to 100"+ images. No contest. Now we're comparing 65-80+" OLEDs with bright HDR and jet black blacks to projected images that can't, bar in a few areas, compete. In fairness, curent 4K HDR pjs look great, but they're still not in the same league and I wouldn't consider suggesting one with less than an 100" screen size. Especially in an untreated room. For 3k, get the biggest OLED you can budget/fit and bask in the unmatched PQ.

Having said that, a high end pj/screen in a treated room with a large screen is a whole different beast. I find the room is as important as the kit in it and when you're sitting in space and all you can see is a bright window into a movie with actors as large as you are, there's currently nothing that competes.

As an owner of a 77 LG OLED CX, http://www.displaywars.com/110-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9. There is still a gigantic difference between my 77'' OLED and the 110'' Draper React ALR screen I've managed to snap up


I've done a blind test and sadly extended family prefer watching a film on my.. wait for it.. 1080p HW40ES.. rather than my 77'' LG OLED due to the size. Very sad days. I could see the look on my sisters face when we watched Moana on the 77'' OLED.. and it was.. bored.. whilst when we watched Doctor Sleep on the old Epson 9400, everyone was entranced and loving it.


The best thing to do, if interested in projection, is buy a cheap second hand one of a high end model... see if you are impressed by it. If you are, get an Epson 9400 which will blow away in brightness and sharpness the old one you bought...

However without an ALR screen or room treatment, I do agree with Warbie that its very difficult to chase that acceptable image.. (I'd say acceptable is mid-range plasma black levels).. and by the time we're there, a £3k budget is going to run very tight if you're buying all the equipment new.