Taiwan and China thread.

[dowie]

sigh... the history understander has logged on again

On June 9, 1898, the British under Queen Victoria brokered a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.[...]

Not naff but basic history

Nope, Hong Kong Island was already ceded to the UK decades earlier in 1842 and as I already pointed out to you the 99-year lease was for the new territories:

British Hong Kong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The island was ceded to Britain by the Treaty of Nanking, ratified by the Daoguang Emperor in the aftermath of the war of 1842. It was established as a crown colony in 1843. In 1860, the British took the opportunity to expand the colony with the addition of the Kowloon Peninsula after the Second Opium War, while the Qing was embroiled in handling the Taiping Rebellion. With the Qing further weakened after the First Sino-Japanese War, Hong Kong's territory was further extended in 1898 when the British obtained a 99-year lease of the New Territories.

 

[dowie]

So the History channel is wrong again! (I must tell them) Thanks to Wikip save the day again I used to get pick on using it here but hay we learn every day

I mean you could have just paid attention to what was said in reply in the first place then you'd have some context to understand that the history.com website had simplified things. Of course, you could also go to wiki and look at the article re: the treaty and see for yourself too.

 

[dowie]

I read Wikipedia is not a reliable source on history but hay who am I to judge! And then be told I could have paid attention! I never agree with you as I read/think out of the box

Then read the text of the original treaty!

 

[dowie]

I'm soo surprised you never heard (Think of the box) means to think differently, unconventionally, or from a new perspective

It's not that he's not heard of the term but rather you're misapplying it, thinking about things differently doesn't mean you need ignore or misunderstand basic facts.

It's not much use to look at things from a new perspective if your perspective is fundamentally flawed because you can't get the basics correct.

 

[dowie]

I gave you the history website and link to the history but because it's not written by Wikip it can't be true! OK what website is! Of cause it got to be Wikip

Who is wikip? Wikipedia is edited by multiple people, the history website isn't incorrect because it's "not written by Wikip".

Again you can read the text of the treaty if you like, this isn't hard to follow.

When did the UK gain control of HK island? Can you answer that? What was the name of the treaty? What year was it signed?

(Hint: the 99 year lease on the new territories ended in 1997 but HK island was already ceded to the UK decades before that)

Why not try and address those questions then see the contradiction, you don't need wiki to do that but you perhaps do need an average IQ or above.

 

[dowie]

There you go again, HK was part of the new terrorises that Pekin (Beijing) sign the 99 year lease, you confused yourself over just the new terrorises,

See you can't answer the questions so you've just ignored them and then thrown in another dodgy claim that can be easily disproven:

New Territories - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can answer for you if you like:

When did the UK gain control of HK island? Can you answer that? What was the name of the treaty? What year was it signed?

It was ceded to the UK under the Treaty of Nanking in 1942... here's a painting of that moment:



So we've got an issue here, if HK island was ceded in 1942 then what does the 99-year lease refer to... oh, wait, look at the map posted above... that would be the new territories as I already told you!

Here is the text of the Treaty of Nanking, signed in 1942:

Treaty of Nanking - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

It being obviously necessary and desirable, that British Subjects should have some Port whereat they may careen and refit their Ships, when required, and Keep Stores for that purpose, His Majesty the Emperor of China cedes to Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., the Island of Hong-Kong, to be possessed in perpetuity by Her Britannic Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and to be governed by such Laws and Regulations as Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., shall see fit to direct.

To help you with the big word above here is a dictionary link:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[dowie]

Another Wilkip thread! Did you not read when I said HK was within the new territories? 99 year lease we're on a merry -go round here

I did read that and you're wrong, HK island was already ceded in perpetuity. The *new* territories are outlined above, the name kind of gives it away!

That history.com article is incorrect, what's happened there is it's simplified things, is that not obvious?

At no part in that article has it said anything about HK island being part of the new territories btw.

Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Under the convention the territories north of what is now Boundary Street and south of the Sham Chun River, and the surrounding islands, later known as the "New Territories" were leased to the United Kingdom for 99 years rent-free,[1] expiring on 30 June 1997, and became part of the crown colony of Hong Kong.[

That's the treaty being referred to, it relates to extending HK.

UK granted HK in 1842 in perpetuity.

1898 UK granted a lease for 99 years for the new territories.

Not hard to follow surely?

Then fast fwd to Thatcher being in power, CCP anticipating getting back the new territories, not willing to extend the lease... UK, however, owned HK island but half the population of HK is in the new territories, CCP makes threats... end result is the UK has to give up all of HK as they won't renew the lease and it's not practical to split it.

That's what I pointed out to you in the first place, it's not hard to follow and I don't really know why you're still clinging onto some incorrect claims that are easy to show are incorrect.

 

[dowie]

I remember you telling me there was no 99 year lease!

This is part of the problem, over several posts, you can't get basic facts correct, can't understand a pretty straightforward thing (HK island ceded in perpetuity in 1842, New Territories leased for 99 years in 1898) and now you're imagining things too.

Can you quote that thing you remember?

If you can't follow something simple, which only requires a few basic facts to understand (apparently you're confused because some history websites have glossed over the details) then no wonder you get muddled when it comes to other things.

 

[dowie]

China bankrupts more poor countries

I met a Chinese guy last year who is involved in some of these deals, he earns a fortune from them, he doesn't work directly for the Chinese government but for a trading company. I asked about the unfinished road in the Balkans etc.. and he just doesn't give a ****, the gist of his position was that any blame is down to the stupidity of their counterparties who willingly entered these deals and it's his job to simply get as much as he can.

 

[dowie]

I can't see China wanting to import Africans en masse.

I did see some story about an athlete breeding program using African men and Chinese women... but I doubt they'd want large numbers of them.

 

[dowie]

I read similar about South Africa about a decade ago. There are 30+ million more Chinese men than women and some are starting families in Africa.

Sometimes watch this vlogger in Uganda and here they talk about a Chinese company manufacturing soap in Mbale and undercutting the original products on price. They think it's a good thing because they get a cheaper product and it increases employment. But over time this just increases dependence on China and they also get the benefit of exporting those products. Some of these countries where they earn less than £1000 per year are ripe for being comandeered and nobody offers the "full package" better than the Chinese.

The irony of a Ugandan talking about how some Indians are bad and some are good Indians...

 

[dowie]

Hmmm. 15m video, but it's worth it. That female police officer needs to be sacked.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749099365442990226

They're quite likely CCP spies/agents:

 

[dowie]

It seems like they're fine if they're making stuff under Western supervision/design/quality control standards (such as Apple products) but it's still the case for homegrown stuff that "made in China" = absolutely naff/unreliable and all they can really do is copies/rip-offs.

 

[dowie]

I wonder what the chances are that it was sabotage considering it was of practically zero value to China's military it would be a nice target for some black-ops tomfoolery.

Then again it's hardly like China needs any help with it's low-effort maintenance.

It seems unlikely, much more likely it was just the result of being an old dodgy Soviet ship.

Not much value in destroying it other than as a PR blow for the regime, I guess maybe if some agent/asset had access to it and could induce a fault/accident with low risk of being caught then it could be but it doesn't seem likely.

 

[dowie]

Looks like the Danes are boarding the ship suspected of having cut the cable:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858968448501772309