Take a bow, mighty conservative Britain, the workhouses are back

Can see it now, staff turnover every 6 weeks. Free labour should never be an option.

Never been out of work since I left school 20 years ago, although it looks like it could be on the cards thanks to this criminal government. If I am made redundant I will make every effort to find another job as everyone should but I would never do it on the terms so frequently endorsed in this thread.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Tescos currently have 7,000 people on training and development courses they have teams of people dedicated to training members of staff, these members of staff specialise in training.

A small company will not and does not have the same in house capacity.
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This isn't my point in any way or form. You can't fit 7,000 people into a small business no one is saying this, you can put them into a workpool from which business can approach or bid for willing claimants.

Having worked for Tesco I would have to contest to training and development courses with teams of people dedicated to training staff members for new entrants across the board. You get inducted, and you get trained by your collegues and manager. It's no different to any other place.
 
Biohazard said:
This isn't my point in any way or form. You can't fit 7,000 people into a small business no one is saying this, you can put them into a workpool from which business can approach or bid for willing claimants.

Having worked for Tesco I would have to contest to training and development courses with teams of people dedicated to training staff members for new entrants across the board. You get inducted, and you get trained by your collegues and manager. It's no different to any other place.
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Nor mine, the point is the pool of resources to choose from in a small business is as the name would suggest limited, staff availability and less formulised and practiced induction procedures make taking on a none skilled worker more arduous for a small business.
 
POB said:
This is wrong, if it was working for a Charity that would be great.

But giving Tesco free labor is very wrong.
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I agree.

Why not have them doing community service part time, doing something which contributes to society and not just a MASSIVE company worth billions who is an outspoken Conservative supporter?

Cleaning the streets, gardening in parks, clearing grafitti, etc etc... just not slavery to some HUGE company making million of pounds for their shareholders.

Are Sainsburys involved in this scam too? (Active Conservative supporters). Unsurprising if they are.
 
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benneh said:
No he's not, he's being offered 8-13 weeks of JSA shelf stacking.
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I guess you didn't read his post after all. 8 weeks of clerical work at the local council. Something that may well have given him an edge when applying for his next job or even given him some contacts or a route into his chosen field.

What looks better on your CV, 3 months of doing nothing or 1 month of doing nothing and 8 weeks of work experience. Not only that but it gives you the chance of getting a decent reference too.

Work experience can be invaluable, hence why so many universities offer unpaid work placements to their students.
 
Will said:
One could argue it discriminates against the older people who lack relavent experience since it is generally restricted to 18-24 year olds...now I work in the jobcentre as a Disability Employment Advisor, I try to help my clients but for many of them the challenges are great, some have not worked for 10+ years, some even longer, I wish such opportunities were made available to them really.
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It discriminates against the youth whom it is complained are being strong armed into it. There is no argument for why it stops at 24, so you could argue I suppose that it is disciminatory all round.

Will said:
Your objections on economic and ideological grounds are all well and good, but what alternative scheme would you propose to help people who have little or no relavent work experience gain this, when those employers that are hiring are all asking for experience?
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Target it to SME's, the voluntary sector or towards public service.

Will said:
Without experience the reality is that you'll struggle to get a job, even for jobs at the lower end of the skill spectrum like more general retail work or warehouse.
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This is a real concern, I realise this. Sure any experience is experience, but that's not what I'm arguing against.

Will said:
Now the last government essentially created jobs for young people in terms of the 'Future Jobs Fund', these were 6 month contracts, open only to 18-24 year olds, with community organisations, offering at least 25hrs a week at NMW, for which the organisation got about £5k per candidate to take them on. This was intended as a way for people to go into work and gain experience, it was a proper job in terms of what people were asked to do, but it was artificial job creation that did not boost the real economy, and the economics did not seem to support these people being kept on after the subsidised period started...hardly any actually stayed in post after the 6 month contract had expired.
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Cheap labour to big business fascilitated by the state and it's use of force isn't artificial? :confused:

Will said:
Its obviously an employers market at the moment...they can afford to be (and are being) picky :(. With that in mind, people are asked to take steps to gain work experience wherever possible....the government puts on schemes to help this as is mentioned, and they get slaughtered, yet nobody has actually suggested a viable alternative.
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And we will just help them along a little bit. If the jobs were there, people should be filling out forms not turning up to work for a fraction of what the legal requirements normally are. I worked at Tesco as a 16 year old, my only experience was school. I didn't have to work for free, I applied and I was succesful.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Nor mine, the point is the pool of resources to choose from in a small business is as the name would suggest limited, staff availability and less formulised and practiced induction procedures make taking on a none skilled worker more arduous for a small business.
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Actually the opposite is often found. I tend to find that SME induction packs particularly are often overbearing for the size or type of business. In any event, this is absolute conjecture with no evidence to back it up at all.

Small business have just as much skill as any other part of the sector, not all do but the vast majority understand their business, their needs and their responsibilities to employees and the structure of the business. It often means training, and I have found no real argument as to why the real wealth creators are to be denied access to the same opportunity as the high tier business groups.
 
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NathanE said:
Really they shouldn't be offering private sector companies like Tesco this. It should be offered to councils. That way we can have these job seekers doing litter picking, graffiti removal, pot hole filling, and helping out the dustmen. Public funds would then result in public gains.
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Agree with the above. It's a good idea but I don't think Tesco etc should benefit from it.
 
Biohazard said:
Actually the opposite is often found. I tend to find that SME induction packs particularly are often overbearing for the size or type of business. In any event, this is absolute conjecture with no evidence to back it up at all.

Small business have just as much skill as any other part of the sector, not all do but the vast majority understand their business, their needs and their responsibilities to employees and the structure of the business. It often means training, and I have found no real argument as to why the real wealth creators are to be denied access to the same opportunity as the high tier business groups.
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We've just spent 3 years setting up an accredited training business as an aside from our main operational activities, it focuses on many aspects of the industries we operate in, when the business case was put forward to set this up we inquired with many of our existing clients as to the needs, the overbearing response was they didn't have the resource nor time to train new or existing staff in house.

Small company’s which quite a few of them are currently under financial pressure due to the state of the economy don’t have the time to faff around with taking on people who are on JSA for 8 weeks.

Personally they should get Mc Donald’s onboard that's a huge global trainer of staff members.
 
Nitefly said:
I don't really see the benefit in her lying....!
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She's been misinformed then. I'm sure if she phones the helpline or speaks to her advisor then she'll get the right information. I'm basing this just on that link that I provided, I don't really know much about benefits I just did a quick search after what you said as it didn't sound right.
 
Firestar_3x said:
We've just spent 3 years setting up an accredited training business as an aside from our main operational activities, it focuses on many aspects of the industries we operate in, when the business case was put forward to set this up we inquired with many of our existing clients as to the needs, the overbearing response was they didn't have the resource nor time to train new or existing staff in house.
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Do you have any citation on the supporting statistics? Which industry?

A wide range of help is available for business, particularly at SME level for such issues. A lot of it is for free, so you must have a specific market. In any event, if business have a need they will more than adapt to suit. Business who cannot induct and or train staff cannot operate.

Firestar_3x said:
Small company’s which quite a few of them are currently under financial pressure due to the state of the economy don’t have the time to faff around with taking on people who are on JSA for 8 weeks.

Personally they should get Mc Donald’s onboard that's a huge global trainer of staff members.
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That reflects more poorly on the state than any SME if that were to be the case, red tape can never be blamed on those trying to make profit.
 
Biohazard said:
Do you have any citation on the supporting statistics? Which industry?

A wide range of help is available for business, particularly at SME level for such issues. A lot of it is for free, so you must have a specific market. In any event, if business have a need they will more than adapt to suit. Business who cannot induct and or train staff cannot operate.



That reflects more poorly on the state than any SME if that were to be the case, red tape can never be blamed on those trying to make profit.
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It's the Defence, Nuclear, Rail and Oil & Gas industry and it's a worldwide training scheme. Supporting information regarding specific client needs which includes those who have been approached and identified shortfalls aren't for public consumption so no references with stats I can quote unfortunatly.

I do concede that some small businesses do training very well but in the exposure we've had they are few and far between.

We have about 130 members of staff and for the past 5 years we've been signed up to take uni placement students, according to them engineering companys allowing this are limited and many simply refuse to give students the time of day due to the amount of time it takes up.
 
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Firestar_3x said:
It's the Defence, Nuclear, Rail and Oil & Gas industry and it's a worldwide training scheme. Supporting information regarding specific client needs which includes those who have been approached and identified shortfalls aren't for public consumption so no references with stats I can quote unfortunatly.
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At SME level you say?

So quite specific in any event, I don't think this is any use as a claimed true reflection of the wider market. Small business if struggling can get advice and support largely for free in many cases, and those who have a good business knowledge are never going to struggle to either expand or handle a natural staff turnover.

Firestar_3x said:
I do concede that some small businesses do training very well but in the exposure we've had they are few and far between.
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The exposure I've had is the opposite of what you say, and with a crosscutting view of the sector.
 
Whilst I agree with the idea, I can't agree with the fact it's a private corporation they will be working for.
 
Fenris said:
Whilst I agree with the idea, I can't agree with the fact it's a private corporation they will be working for.
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That doesn't bother me as such because ultimately we want people to be working privately and as fairly and productively as possible to see us through the conditions that could be about to get a lot worse. I just disagree with the targetting, it's just all too convienent and a little bit more planning could have stimulated the economy where it is really needed.
 
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