Talk to me about mirror less DSLR's

Phate said:
I know what you mean, maybe it's just because I'm used to L glass and obviously these images were not taken with said glass :p

Olympus E-PL5, not heard of this one - I'll check it out. :)

Does anyone know what it's like selecting specific focal points on these cameras? Thats what annoys me most about most P&S cameras.
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Changing ISO was a pain and talking with the GF (who was also using one) apparently she couldn't work out how to change focal points (although I think it is possible). Most things appear to be in several layers of menu rather than dedicated buttons although changing shooting style and subsequently aperture was pretty easy (pressing buttons), not that aperture really does much to dof on these cameras with the standard lens, I left it wide open most of the time...

With regards to I SO, that was the most annoying part of the camera, its about 3 button presses to get to and while it does have auto iso the options are either 100-800 or 100-3200 with 800 being to slow for anything remotely active with a kit lens and 3200 being unacceptably noisy for general shooting. I also found that it would aim for a shutter speed of around 1/60, fine for removing vibration reduction but not if you want to shoot anything when either it or you are moving...

Having said that I think you're going to find those as standar problems with most mirrorless cameras, I would however recommend looking at Panasonic's GF/GX range. My sister has one and its pretty nice.
 
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Amp34 said:
Changing ISO was a pain and talking with the GF (who was also using one) apparently she couldn't work out how to do it. Most things appear to be in several layers of menu rather than dedicated buttons although changing shooting style and subsequently aperture was pretty easy (pressing buttons), not that aperture really does much to dof on these cameras with the standard lens, I left it wide open most of the time...

With regards to I SO, that was the most annoying part of the camera, its about 3 button presses to get to and while it does have auto iso the options are either 100-800 or 100-3200 with 800 being to slow for anything remotely active with a kit lens and 3200 being unacceptably noisy for general shooting. I also found that it would aim for a shutter speed of around 1/60, fine for removing vibration reduction but not if you want to shoot anything when either it or you are moving...

Having said that I think you're going to find those as standar problems with most mirrorless cameras, I would however recommend looking at Panasonic's GF/GX range. My sister has one and its pretty nice.
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Did you/your GF have the Super Control Panel enabled? Makes a big difference to how easily settings can be accessed. Once the SCP is enabled you just press the central OK button to bring it up and it gives you direct access to pretty much all the settings you need, including ISO. Auto ISO upper limit and default can be set to any value in 1/3rd stop increments. ISO can also be assigned to one of the function buttons for easy access. Focus selection on the E-PL5 is apparently the same as the E-M5 which I have and is therefore incredibly simple - either use the main 4 way direction buttons or set the touch screen for focus or focus-and-shoot. Depending on what size focal points you select you have the choice of 35 points evenly spaced around the sensor. With respect it sounds like 10 minutes spent reading the manual might have been a good idea :p

What the manual won't have told you is that you also have partial control over the auto iso/shutter speed behaviour - setting the flash slow limit will allow you to alter the shutter speed that the camera aims for in P and A modes, between 1/30th and 1/250th. This is a pretty cryptic and undocumented feature to be fair.

I've got a GX1 (and previously a GF1), lovely little cameras but the E-PL5 has a better sensor, in-body stabilisation and some very useful features such as live time mode and focus peaking. I've only handled one briefly but I'd definitely take a E-PL5 over any of the GF range or a GX1. GX7 is a different matter but much more expensive.

As for depth of field... you get twice the depth of field for a given aperture on m43 compared to full frame whilst still achieving the same exposure... not great if wafer thing DOF is your thing, but probably quite useful for closeup shots underwater as it allows you to shoot at half the ISO you'd need on a FF camera to get the same amount in focus, thus negating some of the noise disadvantage of the smaller sensor.
 
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That post was talking about the AW1.. :p I started thinking "wow, that wasn't in the manual!"

He asked about both! Probably should have made myself a bit clearer but it was just after a pot by me talking about the AW1.
 
Oh, haha. Just the post you quoted at that point mentioned the E-PL5.

That was some wasted typing on my part :p

There I was thinking you'd gone full retard :D
 
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So I've come back to this, after doing more research.

Found the following...

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So the Olympus E-M5 and Sony NEX-5 are both out, they produce arguably truly stunning images, but not enough of an improvement over the others for the additional cost, so lets forget those two for the time being.

To go through them quickly...

Canon EOS-M

Naturally, I'm Canon biased :p - it's such a shame the housing is so expensive for these cameras, also I doubt there will be an alternative as the EOS-M2 is rumoured to be in the works and due out soonish. I might email Ikelite (my preferred housing company) to see if they are developing anything. If so it could be worth holding out. The camera ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Olympus E-PL5

Lots of you raved about this camera, also Olympus make a housing for it themselves which I like the idea of and with a total cost of £737 for camera + housing, this really isn't bad. I'll have to see if I can hold one and possibly hire to try out.

Sony RX100 ii

From what I've read this is supposed to be one of 'the' best compact mirror less camera going, the first is VERY highly regarded and its at a very attractive price and the housing is cheap as well.

My next plans are:

Visit somewhere which stocks these 2 cameras and hold/play with them, go through the menus, find out how easily accessible all of the options are, I don't want to be gaffing through menus when I'm also controlling buoyancy and air consumption :p - look at the build quality and find comparisons for IQ of them online, above and below water if possible. Then when I've made a decision I want to try and hire what I want to buy in the long run for my trip in July to use it for a couple of weeks to see how I get on :)
 
E-pl5 is only 287 body only from srs. My gf has one now so I've been playing with it a bit and can still recommend one. Beware trying them out - the default menu layout and options are competent retarded. Read up on enabling the super control panel and how mysets work before going.

Is pretty customisable, if you want me to check anything in particular just shout.
 
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King4aDay said:
E-pl5 is only 287 body only from srs. My gf has one now so I've been playing with it a bit and can still recommend one. Beware trying them out - the default menu layout and options are competent retarded. Read up on enabling the super control panel and how mysets work before going.

Is pretty customisable, if you want me to check anything in particular just shout.
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Oooh thanks :)

Who are SRS?

I shall have a read up before going to look at one :) - will try to pop to a curry's or something to have a play with them.

Can you post up some sample images from it please? :)
 
For research Flickr is also a great place to go for specific camera and lens combos. I'm sure you can find some underwater samples too.
 
Phate said:
Oooh thanks :)

Who are SRS?

I shall have a read up before going to look at one :) - will try to pop to a curry's or something to have a play with them.

Can you post up some sample images from it please? :)
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SRS Microsystems. Have ordered from them before, they're legit. I'll take some photos of my fish tank later for a true underwater assessment :p
 
PS. E-PL5, E-M5, E-P5 and E-PM2 all use the same sensor and produce essentially identical images (only difference really being in the amount of image stabilisation available and different max shutter speeds, and even then the differences are small). So if you're looking for example images then results from any of those will be broadly relevant.
 
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King4aDay said:
SRS Microsystems. Have ordered from them before, they're legit. I'll take some photos of my fish tank later for a true underwater assessment :p
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Seems legit :p

King4aDay said:
PS. E-PL5, E-M5, E-P5 and E-PM2 all use the same sensor and produce essentially identical images (only difference really being in the amount of image stabilisation available and different max shutter speeds, and even then the differences are small). So if you're looking for example images then results from any of those will be broadly relevant.
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Thats very good to know :)

On thediveforum.co.uk I have found a guy who uses EVIL (I can't help but say that in a 'evil' way :D) systems and happy to answer lots of questions. Time to pester! :D
 
I got a e-pl5 from askdirect for £319 with free 17mm 2.8 lens too, sadly that free lens offer isn't on anymore :(

Its a great bit of kit :)
 
More research done and been speaking to a guy who does this full time and he uses an E-PL5, can't recommend it enough!

He said the Sony is good, but it has a distinct lack of lenses. The Olympus really have this part of the market made with both Olympus and Panasonic lenses available + wet lenses to match, and good housings, accessories etc.

Exciting! :)


WHY DO I FIND THIS OUT THE DAY MY CREDIT CARD LIMIT GETS EXTENDED!!!
 
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Purchased an E-PL5 last night off the Bay of E for £230. It's the black version, 6 months old, used a handful of times with the kit lens and case. Completely chuffed :)

Housing next month all in good time for my trip in July :)

I must say, I'm more excited about this purchase than pretty much any other (apart from the time I bought my Mkii and then the Mkiii even though its been the cheapest one I've made in photography for years!
 
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