Tax in UK

[Richie]

Don’t know, i think it would be fairer to pay for what you use and pay for your own private healthcare (not you, i mean generally for everyone)

It boils my **** when family members (sort of family) talk about getting their pension when they have never paid a single bean into the system, live in a council house on benefits for 30 odd years.

Granted but doesn't it boil your blood that some wealthy people don't pay their fair share (morally speaking) by using tax avoidance schemes as well?

How can someone with a multi-million income pay an effective 20% tax rate where someone else earning a fraction pays 40%.

Sure, it's wrong that professional benefit scroungers work the system but the wealthy have done a fantastic job on Joe Public making these scroungers the focus of our hate whilst the tax avoiders dance off into the sunset.

 

[D.P.]

Granted but doesn't it boil your blood that some wealthy people don't pay their fair share (morally speaking) by using tax avoidance schemes as well?

How can someone with a multi-million income pay an effective 20% tax rate where someone else earning a fraction pays 40%.

Sure, it's wrong that professional benefit scroungers work the system but the wealthy have done a fantastic job on Joe Public making these scroungers the focus of our hate whilst the tax avoiders dance off into the sunset.

Moreover, the benefit scroungers are massively over inflated in terms of occurrence and cost. It is effectively loose change at the back of the sofa , just the right wing media whip people into a frenzy over something that has minimal costs.

Tory policy has cost the UK millions of times more

 

[SpellowHouse]

Sad reality isn't it. Rather than ploughing it back into society they've created more divide than ever.

What amazes me, is the way they lie.
If they would just come out and tell the truth, then I would have more faith in them, but all the time they lie and say they support everyone, when they clearly don't.
To me, the only reason they would lie like this is they know full well the public would not support their policies if they told the truth.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Moreover, the benefit scroungers are massively over inflated in terms of occurrence and cost. It is effectively loose change at the back of the sofa , just the right wing media whip people into a frenzy over something that has minimal costs.

Tory policy has cost the UK millions of times more

I completely agree. This government has ruled by fear. It sounds dramatic, but it's true. They constantly invoke fear by hugely inflating the problems in certain sectors. How many evil benefit fraudsters there are. How many greedy pensioners. Evil boat people (wow, did that backfire on them!). The truth is that these are not core problems.

 

[neocon]

My friend is moving to Australia as he says earning over 100k is a ridiculous benchmark for excessive taxation.

We got debating whether 100k should be the cut off considering is it actually a 'rich wage' as such when you have millionares earning 500k etc.

So question is should the tax be so excessive at 100k?

Is he vacating a 100k job?

He'll have some extra pommy taxation when he lives in Australia in the form of airplane tickets to fly back home.

 

[Freefaller]

What amazes me, is the way they lie.
If they would just come out and tell the truth, then I would have more faith in them, but all the time they lie and say they support everyone, when they clearly don't.
To me, the only reason they would lie like this is they know full well the public would not support their policies if they told the truth.

And yet the lies become more and more obvious but people still seem to ignore them, or at least nothing is being done to fix the lies.

 

[SpellowHouse]

And yet the lies become more and more obvious but people still seem to ignore them, or at least nothing is being done to fix the lies.

I have never known a government to be as a bunch of liars as this one. It's no wonder people's faith in politicians has degraded so much.

 

[Lightnix]

I have never known a government to be as a bunch of liars as this one. It's no wonder people's faith in politicians has degraded so much.

What I think is interesting is how they keep getting away with it. The polls are incredibly bad for the Tories right now and yet there seems to be close to zero pressure for a GE at the moment.

Like Labour gave it a crack in January, realised it wouldn't happen because the Tories didn't fancy it and just sort of gave up on the idea. So now we're waiting out the clock and hoping the government can maintain a degree of self control over their sticky fingers. Meanwhile their incentive is obviously to do anything unpopular that they ideologically would like to do but wouldn't do if they thought they had a snowman's chance in hell of winning the next election.

 

[sHo0sH]

So what would you say is a comfortable wage to bring 2 kids upon?

Completely depends where you live and until next year the age gap between the kids. If you had two children in childcare at the same time the number would be very high.
Full time childcare for 1 child where I am is £1900-2400 a month alone.

 

[413x]

Granted but doesn't it boil your blood that some wealthy people don't pay their fair share (morally speaking) by using tax avoidance schemes as well?

How can someone with a multi-million income pay an effective 20% tax rate where someone else earning a fraction pays 40%.

Sure, it's wrong that professional benefit scroungers work the system but the wealthy have done a fantastic job on Joe Public making these scroungers the focus of our hate whilst the tax avoiders dance off into the sunset.

Yes. You see "those lazy benefit scroungers" significantly more than "those tax avoiding elite".

 

[Freefaller]

So what would you say is a comfortable wage to bring 2 kids upon?

It depends on where you live, and what your life situation is.

If you're earning a 100k+ you will possibly (again an assumption) have gone for a larger house, and ergo a larger mortgage. And over the last couple of years large mortgages have large monthly amounts.

If you live in the middle of the countryside or in the north of the UK, you may well have a cheaper home per square meter than closer to big cities. You make a compromise when you have kids.

You theen have to consider if you're taking paternal/maternity leave and whether you or your other half goes back to work at all, as it may be cheaper not to as childcare costs can be significant until they get to 3 and you get some funded hours, or when they turn 5 they actually go to primary school.

You have to consider if you need a car etc.. Do you want to put your kids through private education or state school education. Do you want to go on holidays, or have a lot of material stuff, or live very modestly and have more cash etc... Also do you shop for quality foods, or cheap foods etc... It all has an impact. Do you own more than 1 car?

It's all very individual. 100k+ you can't get 30hrs of childcare nor tax free childcare, so you either have to do a tax efficiency to qualify for it, or accept you won't get the full support.

Once the kids are older and both at school, then you should technically have more disposable income, especially if your other half is back at work. However, you are then limited to holiday on school holidays only, and the costs spiral upwards significantly. Travelling with 4 people isn't cheap.

 

[Freefaller]

The current system is clearly designed to keep anyone on PAYE down by making it difficult to really become wealthy as a salaried employee. The only viable ways are own a business or inherit. All the envy over higher paid employees and the tax policies and suggestions targeting them is really misplaced.

100% - high earning PAYE is basically not fun. This is why many people opt for shares and other packages instead.

 

[tlrBeta]

Granted but doesn't it boil your blood that some wealthy people don't pay their fair share (morally speaking) by using tax avoidance schemes as well?

How can someone with a multi-million income pay an effective 20% tax rate where someone else earning a fraction pays 40%.

Sure, it's wrong that professional benefit scroungers work the system but the wealthy have done a fantastic job on Joe Public making these scroungers the focus of our hate whilst the tax avoiders dance off into the sunset.

Of course self employed earning over higher thresholds also voluntarily pays 40% tax on such earnings.....it isn't just "the elite" playing the game

 

[413x]

Yeah kids thing is even more circumstance dependent.

Living in London with no family support?
Vs living in Clacton on sea with "ya mam" next door?

Very different wage requirement

 

[Doobedoo]

Completely depends where you live and until next year the age gap between the kids. If you had two children in childcare at the same time the number would be very high.
Full time childcare for 1 child where I am is £1900-2400 a month alone.

Many people are living on less.

 

[Gammawolf]

Hospitals need maintenance staff on standby 24/7/365 but they don't necessarily have enough work to employ people from specific niches 24/7/365 so outsourcing makes a huge amount of sense. Those workers can be deployed across multiple contacts which lowers the price to the NHS.

Not cleaning related but same situation, both my sisters work in the NHS as ODP's and both tell me the contracting staff are mostly useless. It is very much a paper benefit when in reality it doesn't really work well. The only time it works well is if you happened to get a semi regular contractor, otherwise most contracting staff waste everyone else’s time because they don't understand how certain hospitals do things, where things are etc.

 

[sigma]

Free services also crumble due to nature of misuse. Some.people take the NHS as a joke and abuse it. Those need paying tbh.

I do wonder if there should be a charge for some services, with exemptions of course. Not much, but a little. I'm sure those services would appreciate direct payment also. E.g. £5 for a GP visit, £10 for an A&E visit.

 

[sigma]

It depends on where you live, and what your life situation is.

If you're earning a 100k+ you will possibly (again an assumption) have gone for a larger house, and ergo a larger mortgage. And over the last couple of years large mortgages have large monthly amounts.

If you live in the middle of the countryside or in the north of the UK, you may well have a cheaper home per square meter than closer to big cities. You make a compromise when you have kids.

You theen have to consider if you're taking paternal/maternity leave and whether you or your other half goes back to work at all, as it may be cheaper not to as childcare costs can be significant until they get to 3 and you get some funded hours, or when they turn 5 they actually go to primary school.

You have to consider if you need a car etc.. Do you want to put your kids through private education or state school education. Do you want to go on holidays, or have a lot of material stuff, or live very modestly and have more cash etc... Also do you shop for quality foods, or cheap foods etc... It all has an impact. Do you own more than 1 car?

It's all very individual. 100k+ you can't get 30hrs of childcare nor tax free childcare, so you either have to do a tax efficiency to qualify for it, or accept you won't get the full support.

Once the kids are older and both at school, then you should technically have more disposable income, especially if your other half is back at work. However, you are then limited to holiday on school holidays only, and the costs spiral upwards significantly. Travelling with 4 people isn't cheap.

I appreciate these are all problems but surely you take this into consideration before you have kids? At least most sensible people would.

 

[Freefaller]

I appreciate these are all problems but surely you take this into consideration before you have kids? At least most sensible people would.

Oh I'm not speaking about my side of the fence - we're doing ok despite having kids. It doesn't matter how much your prepare, the cost of doing stuff with kids is always somewhat shocking! However for many the desire of children outweighs the sacrifices needed to be made - but then they also don't realise how much things can cost when you do have children.

In a truly pragmatic, clinical world, we'd all make far better decisions, but humans are humans! We do things from the heart as often as we do things from the head.

 

[Pudney]

Granted but doesn't it boil your blood that some wealthy people don't pay their fair share (morally speaking) by using tax avoidance schemes as well?

How can someone with a multi-million income pay an effective 20% tax rate where someone else earning a fraction pays 40%.

Sure, it's wrong that professional benefit scroungers work the system but the wealthy have done a fantastic job on Joe Public making these scroungers the focus of our hate whilst the tax avoiders dance off into the sunset.

It's quite easy to have a low effective tax rate ("ETR") if "income" isn't income in the correct sense of the word. Poor media reporting, poor understanding and public indignation is easy to get a situation where someone is paying the maximum tax but is still perceived as using "tax avoidance" even when they've paid literally the most amount of tax the law prescribes. It then makes it difficult to get points across about the fairness or otherwise when the reality is no moral or immoral tax avoidance is in play.